flaming vicchio

[Pooeypants]

Failures of Europe? Hah, once we get the East EU countries on their feet and running, you'd have to eat your words.You know, for a nation that has such high GDP, I find it alarming that you don't have a national health service. Instead you'd rather spend a gigantic sum of money each year funding things that maim and kill.

[bishop]

Bush isn't perfect, as a matter of fact, he's on my shit list right now.

heh.. i'm sure whatever bush has done to upset you has been done during his first term in office. but you voted for him - so congratulations moron. you got what you asked for. :)

[Nono]

Quote by: Mr.V Whose the one with the low IQ?

Quote by: Indie The American people... obviously.

Boys, boys!

I agree with Vic that ability to speak in public is no guide to intelligence. (Though other things are.) And the Brits can be a real pain in the ass with their damn superiority (the type who would agree with Charles Luckman that "the problem with America is that there are too many wide open spaces -- surrounded by teeth"). Better to debate the actual issues.

The fact that Bush won the election (if indeed he did) by the dinkiest of majorities fails to demonstrate that all Americans are numbskulls. Rather, almost half voted against him. There definitely are two Americas. This fact -- and the country's many achievements -- deserve respect.

As for "the failures of Europe", I think you'd find precious few Europeans -- people who actually live here -- who would concur with Vic. They have their criticisms, sure, but when they look across the Atlantic, well ...

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: bishop heh.. i'm sure whatever bush has done to upset you has been done during his first term in office. but you voted for him - so congratulations moron. you got what you asked for. :)

Blow me Bishop, what has him on my shit list was that asinine "vigelante" crap he was labeling the Minuteman project with. The more he stubbornly capitulates to the illegal alien lobbiest the more he pisses people like me off. Hell my father isn't impressed with that entire fiasco.

[Mr.Vicchio]

There is no " Two America's"

We are ALL AMERICANS, that crap is propogated by the media. There ARE extrimest on both sides of the middle demarkation line that feel that way, but most American's, are just that, AMERICAN'S.


BTW there are plenty of Failures in Europe, I do however not claim that Europe is a failed system.
Socialist dreams of an equal society where everything is "fair" and no one is poor means only the elite few will be rich and no one else will ever move above thier current station in life.

That's the European Dream, we consider that... a failured society.

[Chris the Chees]

I do however not claim that Europe is a failed system.

Thankfully, you see if you did, I would be forced to contradict you, while pointing out that Europe is no system, and contains no single system.

You speak of Europe as if it is one country, with nations such as Norway and the United Kingdom, as if there was no more difference than between Virginia and Maryland. I can assure you that you are quite mistaken, we do not have one system, in fact all European nations have different systems, different cultures, different languages, different economies and with different social and moral values.

Some nations in Europe hold more in common with the USA thousands of miles away from each other, than a nation less than one hundred miles away.

I also find your suggestion that Europe is socialist to be embarrassing in its inaccuracy. Europe is not remotely socialist and never has been. Indeed I cannot think of a single socialist nation in modern Europe.

I can only conclude that you have been wrongly informed as to the nature, nay the definition of socialism.

Has the USA and its people, in particular US conservatives, become so entrenched in America’s traditional isolationism that they have become so detached from reality? Perhaps the stereotype regarding American ignorance of the rest of the world is not unfounded. After all it would appear that this American does not even understand the nature of countries which his own is derived from.

A most worrying prospect.

[bishop]

so you're the kind of deep thinker who cares more about words than actions, eh? big deal that he called the minutemen vigilantes... he's pushing to give illegal aliens de facto amnesty for fuck's sake. and you reward him by voting for him - outstanding.

[bishop]

Has the USA and its people, in particular US conservatives, become so entrenched in America’s traditional isolationism that they have become so detached from reality?

huh? the proponents of the iraq are hardly isolationists.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: bishop huh? the proponents of the iraq are hardly isolationists.

Indeed, however culturally the US and its people are a very isolationist people. Your nations was founded and made up of people who left other countries to escape from the lives they previously had. It is not surprising that a large level of detachment would still exist. Not to mention that only two nations are within close proximity to the US. The US also has had a long history of isolationist policy, and even now conservatives, traditional proponents of American individualism and isolationist policy, are demanding the abolition of the UN.

[rcne]

Quote by: IndieC 4 elections? from what i can remember its only been two, so you prove my point about intelligence if you cant even count... As for him winning them, what do you think? Most people dont know different if they listen to Fox News. On top of that, he has Cheney behind him doesn't he? Now that is the intelligence... Can you imagine him President? That would be worse than Bush! No, no... Bush is completely ignorant and stupid. Who else would say the French don't have a word for entrepreneur? That is just hilarious, considering you even have to speak French to say the word. There is nothing that can prove to me that Bush is intelligent in any way shade or form. As for me not being able to beat him, well, sorry, i'm European aren't I? I have nothing to do with the elections in the US... I know i can't beat him!

IndieC, I'm from Ohio and other then the Guardian trying to influence our election, the stories you hear are not he ones that have circulated here.

I guess I'll have to tell you since the members of the domestic and international committees can't figure out Bush.

Have you ever heard the term "Dumb like a Fox"? The classic mistake is underestimating your opponent in any walk of life.

International politics for you then IndieC? Perhaps a job at the UN? They need the help.

As for Pooey and the rise of the EU, when do you think that may occur? Do you think France will join? Will the UK? Will the EU become the power that is hoped in our lifetime? The only thing concrete from the EU is the euro, that alone does not justify the existence of the EU. The common currency could have been established without the EU.

The EU is a grand committee idea but as of yet nothing more than committees trying to form committees to develop a plan to present to the committees members country, full of concessions to each member country to help gain acceptance..

As for Bushisms, I enjoy them. They are quite funny.

[Chris the Chees]

Both France and the UK are already member states of the EU.

[rcne]

Isn't France concerned about passing a vote on something concerning the EU?

News.telegraph Oui or Non, EU insists that the voting goes on By David Rennie in Brussels Europe's pro-federalist leaders have launched a campaign to save the EU constitution from imminent death should France vote No in next month's referendum.

Did the UK scrap the pound? Did either concede any governing authority to the EU?

[Chris the Chees]

If so then it is the new European constitution, not actual membership of the EU.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: bishop so you're the kind of deep thinker who cares more about words than actions, eh? big deal that he called the minutemen vigilantes... he's pushing to give illegal aliens de facto amnesty for fuck's sake. and you reward him by voting for him - outstanding.

No, Bishop, it's his attitude towards immigration and control that is clearly laid out by his attitude towards the minute men.

[Mr.Vicchio]

The EU is my big problem Chris. And I will fall out of my chair laughing should FRANCE reject the "consitution" being proposed.

[bishop]

Quote by: Chris the Chees Indeed, however culturally the US and its people are a very isolationist people. Your nations was founded and made up of people who left other countries to escape from the lives they previously had. It is not surprising that a large level of detachment would still exist. Not to mention that only two nations are within close proximity to the US. The US also has had a long history of isolationist policy, and even now conservatives, traditional proponents of American individualism and isolationist policy, are demanding the abolition of the UN.

i'm not particularly keen on making such overgeneralizations.. by the same logic, i could say that britons are traditionally decadent colonialists that hunt natives for sport. present-day britons hardly fit that stereotype - and present-day americans don't fit the isolationist stereotype. we weren't isolationist in korea, vietnam, desert storm, the balkans, desert storm 2, somalia, panama, etc..


the "conservatives" in power want to abolish the un.. no doubt about that - but they want to get rid of it because they see it as an impediment to their agenda. wouldn't the bush administration love to openly torture al qaeda suspects? sure they would.. why do i say that? our attorney general termed the geneva convention "quaint", diminishing it's perceived importance and relavence.

[Mr.Vicchio]

They want to get rid fo the UN because it's uselss Bishop, not because of the reasons you state.

Where DO you get your news?

[bishop]

bush was all set to go into saddam without bringing the issue to the security council. i know your memory changes as the dogma changes, but powell had to fight like all hell to convince bush to go to the security council.

one good example of how they wish to push u.n. rules aside and go forward with their merry nazi agenda.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: bishop bush was all set to go into saddam without bringing the issue to the security council. i know your memory changes as the dogma changes, but powell had to fight like all hell to convince bush to go to the security council. one good example of how they wish to push u.n. rules aside and go forward with their merry nazi agenda.

Nazi eh? Sigh, sad that you are so enmeshed in delusion?

We didn't NEED the UN to go after Saddam Bishop, something oyu never seem to fully grasp

[bishop]

nazi as in fascists.

and, we didn't need to take the case to the u.n.? enlighten me oh wise hick.