Mexico on the scene:

[rmnunez]

Disappointed w/Waco Summit
Immigration has never been a priority in the US, its never been part of some government agenda, its only used in election campaigning, at least in Bush's tenure. Though the matter of border safety was made a priority, these immigrant-hunting posses, the Border Patrol's use of "non-lethal means" and/or excessive force, as well as the high incidence of fatalities among those crossing -were inadequately addressed, if at all.

The WSJ has an excellent editorial admonishment for Bushian unilateralism in trade and commerce. Its remarked how Canadian lumber and Mexican cement ought to be allowed completely unimpeded access to the world's greatest market. Loopholing attorneys at the Department of Commerce twist senses in convoluted interpretations of antidumping and antitrust trade conventions to unilateraly impose protectionist barriers.

Also lamentable is the failure to evince progress on the trucking issue with billionaric federal suits and massive railway transactions. Free Trade Agreements are supposed to benefit their members with lower barriers to trade and traffic in services too (workers). The US under Bush has unilateraly breached NAFTA provisions in subtantial ways to Mexican detriment (tuna, fructose, water allocations, biosafety delays, GM foods, trucking...). Mexicans should have been better able to ply their trade in the US long ago.

Reaction to the summit is mixed, border safety (in the Mexican sense) was made a priority by the PAN and Fox. The announced achievements all focus on issues relating to what could be described as progress in expanding NAFTA integration beyond its originally purely commercial focus. This is the right course, though I'd have prefered some advances towards integrating foreign policy and a more immigrant-focused approach to the border safety issue.

[Zeebadee]

Yeah, the NAFTA agreement has caused a 100 billion dollar trade deficit with Mexico and Canada and yet some whiner wants more handouts. Generations of systematic, inbred graft and corruption in Mexico goes unanswered and unchallenged, yet they want, demand, actually, more and more concessions and outright handouts from U.S. taxpayers.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/we...chive_11052003

[rmnunez]

systematic, inbred graft and corruption in Mexico (does not go) unanswered and unchallenged

.
Fox's PAN has achieved remarkable successes, all sorts of financial safeguards have been instituted to preclude the chronic and dramatic devaluations which traditionally followed each successive president's looting of the treasury upon departure. A transperancy institute was created. For the first time we have criminal sanctions against people offering and not just recipients of bribes. New FOIA-like legislation now assures access to public records (though it appears the more recalcitrant in complying are institutions under less conservative non-Panistas). The judiciary is undertaking a massive effort to improve access to courts, establish clearer and more public procedings and punish instances of judicial corruption. On TV all governmental agencies and departments broadcast PSAs to promote their transperancy and the public's need to repudiate and report corruption. The "No Mas Mordidas" campaign was followed with the current "¿Tienes el Valor o te Vale?" The electric parastatal urges an end to illicit hookups. The police urge people to report crimes, if needed anonymously. Placcards on buses and trains promote improvements in service through savings by not damaging the vehicles and their income-generating advertising. Pitiful salaries for cops have more than doubled and instances of corruption are being investigated there too.

The Mexico City legislature (ALDF) controlled by the PRD is now embroiled in debates on whether to remove the mayor's immunity for his prosecution in several corruption-tainted real-estate transactions. The mayor's chauffeur, personal secretary, the City treasurer and several of the PRD's highest ranking socialistic firebrands closest to the mayor's presidential bid are all either behind bars, contemplating prosecution or fugitives of the law for corrupt practices. The issue of corruption is not something that remains immutable and it is the focus of a monumental Fox-lead initiative to erradicate it everywhere.

[rmnunez]

According to a study released Monday by the Pew Hispanic Center, between 2000 and 2004, illegal immigration to the United States increased by a net of about 485,000. As of March 2005, the undocumented population will have reached nearly 11 million, including more than 6 million Mexicans, assuming the same rate of growth as in recent years, the report said.

The Border Patrol says the number of illegal immigrants caught trying to enter at land borders is declining -from about 1.6 million in 2000 to 931,557 in 2003.

[rmnunez]

Though informally, the Mexican government expressed its disagreement with US reports questioning Mexican capacity to assure border safety, human rights protections and, particularly, the offensive reference to Mexico as a “backyard”. Santiago Creel brought these Mexican claims to the attention of Messrs. Bush and Chertoff. According to Bush’s secretary, the president noted his disagreement with some of the reports relating to posible Al Qaeda in México. Both acknowledged CIA Director, Porter Goss’ “backyard” reference was out of place, should not have been used and caused offence. When asked about the issues of gringan racialist posses and immigration reform, Creel said Fox told Bush about his concerns over the immigrant’s safety and human rights and that Bush agreed, expressing concern over these “immigrant hunters” saying he would undertake whatever steps are necessary to make sure these people don’t break the law.

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2005/mar0...5/005n1pol.php

[Zeebadee]

Just more snivelling and whining about Mexicans not being given enough handouts. And, of course, more flame bait about some offensive term used by an American while continuing to use offensive terms himself. Is this the best you can do??

[rmnunez]

Seems to be that if the term "gringo" is peyorative, it would probably apply better to racialist posses from that country, thus should not be questioned in this instance.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: rmnunez Seems to be that if the term "gringo" is peyorative, it would probably apply better to racialist posses from that country, thus should not be questioned in this instance.

Just because it "seems to be" doesn't make it so. More hypocrisy from one whining about racial slurs while using them himself.

If you don't want to be referred to as America's back yard, then stand up and take care of your own people instead of suborning them to violate our laws and come north to leech off U.S. taxpayers. If these people weren't willing to work for peanuts, how welcome do you really think our ruling elite would make them? And people like you are willing to send them here to work for slave wages because they send money home to support the eternal graft and corruption that Fox is currently "fighting". Yeah, sure. You're no better than the African blacks that sold other blacks to the slave traders 150 years ago. "Go get 'em, boys, I'll wait for you right here".

[rmnunez]

Mexicans don't go north to leech off of anyone, these are by and large low grade menial workers not welfare dependants. I have no doubt the welcome Mexicans receive in the US (if any) is purely motivated by the economy of their labour. Mexicans are not "sent" to the US, they just leave Mexico. The idea the government encourages this is premised on the notion if they did more to "grow the economy" in Mexico, then local demand who dry-up immigrant flows. Aside from noting how this would only apply to workers and not welfare-dependants, consider that the benefits of governmental intervention in the economy are a mixed lot. Heavy involvement (to generate as many new jobs a year as there are immigrants) would require huge public works and vast expenditures in parastatal industries. We've seen this before and it doesn't work well, particularly in corrupt settings. Consider also how ineffectual government intervention in the economy has always been as they generally try to control inflation, promote savings, enhance profits and redistribute wealth, bucking what seem to be innate cycles or trends in business. Then too, consider how the governments of leading economies in western industrialized nations like the US, have perennially failed to foster job generation to keep pace with demographic growth. If the US can't do it, why is it expected Mexico could?

Lastly, do note, I am not Mexican.

[rmnunez]

From 1 April, groups of volunteers from across the US will spend up to a month camped out in the inhospitable Arizona desert. Armed with night vision goggles, radios and light aircraft, their quarry are the hundreds of immigrants who each night seek illegally to cross the wire fence separating the US from Mexico. While the volunteers insist they will simply "observe" the new arrivals' movements and alert the US Border Patrol, human rights groups fear the eruption of vigilante violence. Called the Minuteman Project, the operation has already strained international relations between Washington and its southern neighbour. Washington accuses Mexico of not doing enough to stem the flow of illegal immigrants from across Latin America into the US, while Mexican officials condemn vigilante attacks near the border.

I doubt they will merely "observe" and then report undocumented's movements to the authorities, hopefully this is all that will take place. Its sure is true this has soured relations with Mexico (as was seen at the Waco summit last week).

It is "a grassroots effort to bring (gringoes) to the defence of their homeland" (Minuteman Project founder James Gilchrist) says, which is "devoured and plundered by the menace of tens of millions of invading illegal aliens". Jennifer Allen, of Border Action Network, based in Tucson, Arizona, tells the BBC News website her campaign group is seeking to force the authorities to take action to prevent any potential vigilante violence. "This is really an issue of outsiders coming in, creating a situation about immigrants, fanning the flames of racism and riling up people's xenophobia," she says. "It's bringing people here from across the country, whereas the local people who deal with the fact they live on the border and deal with immigration routes are not the ones doing this." Mark Potok, of the Southern Poverty Law Centre in Alabama, recognises the Minuteman volunteers' stated intention to patrol peacefully. But he is concerned the organisers will not be able to screen all participants for links to white supremacist groups. "We think they are pouring gas on the fire," he says. "We think it's very possible we will have some kind of eruption down there."

Sounds to me like a bunch of racists, heard hardware stores are providing "minutemen" with free bullets, promoting firearms sales, the event is billed as a "hunt".

But, says Jeff Passel of the Pew Hispanic Centre, no amount of danger will deter immigrants as long as a better life beckons beyond the wire -dooming current border policies to failure. "The one thing that that seems to be behind the migration is jobs -and the US government has done very little to cut off employment," he says.

Mexico is blamed for the flood of immigrants, but I'm sure the lax attitude of gringan authorities and the exploitative greed of gringan employers help make the move attractive to Mexicans despite the risks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4384855.stm

[Matt W]

The exact quote is this:

"a grassroots effort to bring Americans to the defence of their homeland"

Don't mess with your sources, even if it does offend your sense of rightness.

[Zeebadee]

It's not a sense of rightness, it's merely flame-baiting. He ignores any posts he doesn't want to answer and continues to repeat himself as if repetition turns lies into truth. Modifying "quotes" to include slurs that he criticizes others for using is just another example of the hypocrisy of his position.

[rmnunez]

Apparently all is not well with the patriotic gringoes out to hunt Mexicans at the border. El Universal reports the Minutemen were infiltrated by Casey Nethercott’s, “Arizona Guard”, who says they’ve got armoured vehicles, are trying to get 2 helicopters and have M-60 machine guns for their hunting.

"If I find armed neonazis and skinheads tresspassing on my lands I will call the police, first I’ll arrest them for tresspassing", Nethercott said. Owner of the vast Puzzi ranch between Douglas and Sonora, Nethercott didn’t dispute the possibility "Arizona Guard" who "had received training from Special Forces" could confront Minutemen, highlighting he didn’t share Minuteman leader Gilchrist’s white supremacist ideology.

All these armed angry gringoes from different racially-motivated groups lurking in the dark hunting for unwary Mexicans. Before its over they will be sorry.

Gilchrist has denied claims by Nethercott maintaining there are no neonazis or supremacists among the Minutemen he leads, as he has carefully screened the records of those taking part in the Project. Nonetheless, members of the neonazi group "Stormfront", based in Florida, have expressed interest in participating and urged other supremacists answer the "call to arms" to stop the Mexican undocumenteds’ "invasion".

The "authorities" are clueless:

The Border Patrol denies having any information to corroborate one way or another the possible involvement with the Minutemen of racial supremacists.

But the answer could be simpler:

Nethercott, a former member of another "immigrant hunting" group in Arizona, "Rescue Ranch", left this group over differences with former US Army Captain Jack Foote.

I’m pretty sure its an easy matter of simply adjusting the size of the respective gringan vigilante commanders’ epaulettes.

http://www.el-universal.com.mx/pls/i...0&tabla=Nacion

[Mr.Vicchio]

Hey bigot boy moderator, did you know 40% of the "gringoes" in this minute man project are... GASP! Minorites!

I guess you think that makes them not worthy of being hispanic, or black, or asian because they are siding with the whities right?

Racist.

[Zeebadee]

Like I said, just more flame-bait. There would be no worries about any kind of confrontation at all if the Mexicans just stayed home.

[Anti Imm]

It is very clear that the vast majority of Americans have had it with illegal Mexicans in their country. You are draining us, while, at the same time, openly expressing your contempt and even hatred toward us.

You come here because conditions in your own country are poor; we know, we hear it day after day. But why don't you start at the root of the problem and demand better from your own government? Are you so weak and such collective cowards that you will allow your government to continue to ignore your needs?

Please hear us: we don't want more illegal immigration. We have our own problems to deal with, we don't need yours as well. Have some dignity: change your country instead of running like cowards to your neighbor's county.

[rmnunez]

Vic, most gringoes (whether minutemen or not) are minorities. Its not an ethnic thing, what animates minutemen is nationalism. Does the name they've adopted have something to do with the size of their genitals or is it a reference to their anticipated lifespan?

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: rmnunez Vic, most gringoes (whether minutemen or not) are minorities. Its not an ethnic thing, what animates minutemen is nationalism. Does the name they've adopted have something to do with the size of their genitals or is it a reference to their anticipated lifespan?

Yeah, let's have a sermon about nationalism from one that advocates sending the dregs of his own society to sneak into another country to be a drain on it's resources instead of his own. About the only thing that would be better for him would be if he could get paid some sort of bounty on each of his countrymen that he could sell to work in our produce fields.

It's pretty obvious that this clown doesn't have any idea of the origination of the term "Minuteman". It's much easier to whine about perceived racism in others and to beg for more handouts than it is to face up to and do anything about the endemic graft and corruption in his own country.

[rmnunez]

Zee, I don't advocate immigration, would much prefer undocumented Mexicans could find adequate employment at home (most Mexicans feel this way too). I dispute the idea immigration is a manifestation affirmatively sought by the Mexican government due to its inefficiencies in job generation. Another matter of dispute is this perception Mexicans migrate to slurp at the government trough on generous gringan handouts.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: rmnunez Zee, I don't advocate immigration, would much prefer undocumented Mexicans could find adequate employment at home

Nobody is holding them hostage. Since you call Americans, gringoes, You probably wouldnt mind being called a nickname?