Mexico on the scene:

[rmnunez]

Yes, the store should have been fined, the US government is not enforcing its immigration laws, but the gringoes lament the Mexicans go over. Its not just Wal Mart, in vacant lots of large cities across the US bunches of Mexicans gather early every morning waiting for foremen, ranchers and contractors who hustle them off to different day jobs, even ordinary gringoes who just want the garage painted or pool caulked sometimes stop by (much cheaper than the going rate).

[rmnunez]

Fox is concerned over these "minutemen":

Anti-immigrant sentiment appears to be growing in the US, Mexican President Vicente Fox said Wednesday, and he urged US officials to act quickly to control movements such as the 950-member-strong Minuteman Project on the Mexico-Arizona border. Mexico's National Human Rights Commission recently issued a warning about several new grass-roots movements inspired by Arizona's Proposition 200. Other Mexican officials have cited the Minuteman Project, a plan by activists to patrol the border during April, as a sign of rising extremism.

Could Mexican "guest-workers" be used to save Social Security in the US?

Fox said he plans to push for US immigration reform during a meeting with President Bush in Texas next week. He also said the two leaders, along with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin, likely will announce a plan to expand the scope of the North American Free Trade Agreement. Fox said he will push for action on a "guest worker" program in the US. He said that the US population is aging and will need Mexican labor in the future and that turning millions of undocumented Mexicans into legal, taxpaying workers could help keep the Social Security system afloat.

Enhancing NAFTA?

The three leaders likely will announce a plan aimed at further integrating their countries' economies to compete against other trade blocs, Fox said. He called it a "new vision" that will not change the existing treaty. It will include new border-security measures, ways to share customs duties, and a continentwide energy policy, he said. Other sections will focus on education, technology and the financial sectors, he said.

NAFTA and Maquiladoras do help reduce the flows:

NAFTA's critics say the 1994 trade pact has cost American manufacturing jobs while hurting Mexican farmers. But Fox said the average Mexican income has more than doubled, to $6,505 a year. Fox said the boom of assembly plants along the border has actually helped stop illegal border crossing by providing jobs for people who would have gone to the US. "That's also part of security on the border, to have this cushion where people can find a job on the Mexican side," he said. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0317fox17.html

[Zeebadee]

"Anti-immigrant sentiment appears to be growing in the US, Mexican President Vicente Fox said Wednesday, and he urged US officials to act quickly to control movements such as the 950-member-strong Minuteman Project on the Mexico-Arizona border."

What the hell do you think it's going to do?? The local citizens don't have much choice since our political "leaders" flat out refuse to enforce any immigration laws at all concerning Mexico. And the hypocrisy and arrogance of Fox is simply unbelieveable! He's demanding the U.S. strictly enforce all our laws while at the same time condoning and encouraging his people to violate them.

"Mexico's National Human Rights Commission"

An oxymoron, and the biggest laugh of this whole thread.

[rmnunez]

Is there a gringan counterpart to the Mexican National Human Rights Commission (CNDH: http://www.cndh.org.mx/), and if so, have they anything to say about this?

[Zeebadee]

Like every other Mexican governmental agency the CNDH is ready to sell Justice to anyone that can afford to buy it. Need something done?? Bring cash.

"Ochoa also cited a case of human rights violations that occurred in the municipality of Tlacoachistlahuaca, Guerrero, where members of the Mexican Army assassinated three peasants and raped two women. In regard to this case, Ochoa stated, "although all of this has been fully documented, the National Human Rights Commission has not made one recommendation/declaration in relation to this case."

http://www.globalexchange.org/countr...ada101399.html

[rmnunez]

Find the "backyard" ugly, how does it look up front, any gringan governmental human rights watchdog? What do they say about Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo, the Rendition Program, any moderating effect on the Patriot Act? I honestly don't know of a US counterpart to the CNDH. I have my doubts on how effective such entities actually are, but will give them the benefit of the doubt, they must do some good, help moderate governmental excesses a bit.

The CNDH monitors and has secured indictments, warrants and prosecution and convicition of dozens of functionaries for miscarriage of justice relating to the ongoing tragic slayings of women in Juarez, they've secured a citizen right to access public records, they monitor the penal justice system, are actively bringing to justice those involved in the Tlatelolco slaughter, the "disappeared", the Colosio assasination, monitoring adequate procedural safeguards of numerous wrongfully accused and destitute Mexicans denied access to counsel on death row across the border. What is the US equivalent, do they do that much better? How much ineffectiveness can we shrug off as merely the effects of inbred corruption?

Creel discretely demands an apology:

Mexican Secretary of the Interior (Gobernación), Santiago Greel revealed yesterday that in his meeting March 23rd with Michael Chertoff, he will raise the issue over the offensive language in recent statements by CIA Director Porter Goss in his “backyard” slur. http://estadis.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/273799.html

[Zeebadee]

Funny that someone who continually uses slurs seems to be concerned about others using them.

[rmnunez]

Creel doesn't use slurs, as noted, he is quite discrete.

[rmnunez]

When questioned over Mr. Goss’ statements, Mr. Creel found “reproachable” a recent

“reference to México by Mr. Goss as ‘America’s backyard’ in a manner which would plainly offend all Mexicans. We will not allow the level of our relations to lower itself with such language and references”, he asserted the matter of Mr. Goss’ language would be raised at the NAFTA summit. http://estadis.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/273799.html

[Zeebadee]

I wasn't referring to Creel.

[rmnunez]

I was talking about Mr. Creel, the one who expressed objection to the "backyard" reference.

I suppose Mr. Goss’ hands are full with more pressing matters (like detailing acceptable torture practice or the rendition programmes). Hopefully and abject apology will be forthcoming, Mr. Goss ought to get briefed on this, he needs to be brought up to speed on adequate terminology and should appreciate it doesn’t help the US to offend people his people are working closely with.

Mr. Creel noted how, in the institutionalized interagency bilateral cooperation which currently prevails with the US, the intelligence and law enforcement agencies are the most productively engaged (something Mr. Goss should be aware of). “This sort of language and Mr. Goss’ indications cannot be understood given the ongoing levels of close integration and cooperation on both sides of the border sharing information on terrorism, organized crime and drug interdiction.” http://estadis.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/273799.html

[Zeebadee]

Again, I find it interesting that you seem to be concerned about someone else using what could be construed as an offensive reference.

[rcne]

An item of interest: Did you know one of the states of Mexico (Yucatan, I think) is publishing a book on how to illegally enter the US.

Tricks and tips on how to evade the border patrol, how to apply for a visa once they're here in the US and tons of other useful information for the journey.

Its hard to stop a 14 billion dollar business (illegals). Mexico as a neighbor should have a much better economy, after all, they have oil, tourism and NAFTA.

[rmnunez]

Hadn't heard of a state publication, the Mexican Dept. of State puts out this http://www.sre.gob.mx/tramites/consulares/guiamigrante/ "Guia del Migrante Mexicano" (also distributed free as a comic book insert in cheap popular Mexican periodicals of the same format).

The guide has been described as incentivizing illegal migration, however, it's common sense suggestions (be wary of "coyotes", travel after sundown in the desert, use a bit of salt or chlorine in your canteen, follow the telegraph or electric lines, walk on the side of the road facing traffic, avoid crossing freeways, telephones to consulates, basic signs and pictures of the uniforms, entities with which undocumenteds may have to deal) are all aimed at saving lives.

About 500 Mexicans perished crossing to the US last year, just a few were killed by dumb or excited gringoes, some simple instructions and pictures can save lives (even if "undocumented" ones).

[rmnunez]

Mr. Creel also disclosed he would insist on an immigration agreement allowing for the legalization of every Mexican working in the US.

Creel is concerned about the border:

Likewise, Mr. Creel assured us he would travel to the US to discuss with his counterparts matters of shared concern relating to border safety and domestic immigration issues.

He may be making an oblique reference to these "Minutemen", or maybe its an “opening”, a unique opportunity, if properly interpreted. What does Creel mean when he says he wants to talk about “domestic immigration issues” with NAFTA counterparts? Does he mean he wants to discuss accomodating US concerns over foreign immigration controls into Mexico? It could be he wants to talk about immigration controls in the US too! It is well-established plenty of non-Mexicans also hazzard the crossing without benefit of border formalities, Mexico (like Morocco) is a “bridge” or gate with the third world (not a backyard).

Creel said he would plainly criticise all discriminatory practices which violate the basic and fundamental human rights of undocumented Mexicans working in the US.

Legalize them all now!

“I will explain why we find it convenient, necessary and urgent to legalize all undocumented Mexicans working in the US.”

Creel, ultimately is just doing his job:

“I will always be in defense of our national interest, independently of the reaction this produces from the US or anyone else” adding that “México comes first and that he would not tolerate any foreign inmiscuition in domestic affairs, nor reference or indications like those objected to, which bear no semblance to the actual state of bilateral relations, are manipulative and intended to harm our national interests.” I will confront my US counterpart to express my complete repudiation for his offensive references as it relates to efforts against terrorism, illicit migration, border safety, organized crime, drug interdiction and other aspects of bilateral concern.

Creel is right. He is right to take offense, “backyard” is not what a Bush Cabineteer should be calling México on the eve of a NAFTA summit. Creel is also right to be confused over the offensive remarks emanating from Mr. Goss, whose panoply of responsibilities includes a number of areas whithin which US agencies and departments he oversees enjoy remarkable levels of cooperation and great success. Creel is also right to raise the issue of the undocumented. I think it might be a bit of electioneering, he is the conservative contender in the upcoming presidential elections and those Paisanos are a large group, have influence, provide support and can vote.

http://estadis.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/273799.html

[Zeebadee]

" Mr. Creel also disclosed he would insist on an immigration agreement allowing for the legalization of every Mexican working in the US."

If there was ever an indication of just how far the United States has fallen, this is it. A Mexican is going to come to the U.S. and dictate exactly what our policies of immigration are going to be, The truly sad thing about this is that Bush will accede to every demand that the Mexican government will make. When one considers the fact that we are sending jobs overseas, dealing with a balance of payments grossly in favor of foreign nations, continuing to experience huge increases in the national debt, and agreeing to unlimited, unrestricted immigration, one has to wonder just what it is that our politicians are doing for us.

[rmnunez]

The truly sad thing about this is that Bush will accede to every demand that the Mexican government will make.

What really would be lamentable would be to dismiss what Creel demands just because he is a Mexican.

[Matt W]

Why is he demanding rather than begging?

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: rmnunez What really would be lamentable would be to dismiss what Creel demands just because he is a Mexican.

What an asinine statement. Creel should be dismissed because the United States has the right to control it's own borders, and to set it's own immigration policies. To imply that Creel would be dismissed because he's Mexican is simply a cheap attempt to capitalize on unfounded and untrue claims of racism. Americans are expected to welcome every culture, religion, and race to our country, but if we even attempt to maintain our own cultural values we are racists. Get a life, and stop trying to use the crutch of racism every time you don't get what you want.

[rcne]

The citizens of the United States and Canada have the most open immigration policies in the world. Yet, we also have the most porous borders.

If we as USians tighten our borders we get shocked outrage. Why?

Check immigration requirements in any other country, then compare them to the Us and Canada as far a liberal policies are concerned.

I've not checked, but could you tell us what Mexico's immigration policies are?