WTC Structural Failure Hearings

[gr8fuldaniel]

Reporters and witnesses heard explosions that morning.

FEMA arrived on the scene, conveniently, on Sept 10, 2001.

Here are hundreds of questions that need answers

[Matrixxx]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Reporters and witnesses heard explosions that morning. FEMA arrived on the scene, conveniently, on Sept 10, 2001. Here are hundreds of questions that need answers

BWAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!

I have to admit I have been a little concerned about some of the content I have been reading here but this one takes the cake!!!

Now that's entertainment on a whole new level!! Let the black helicopters, dancing horses, hoops and garters make their grande entrance!

[gr8fuldaniel]

If you cant DEBATE, go away.

Ridicule is not an acceptable substitute for debate.
If there is something in particular you disagree with point it out. Or go away.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Something smells really rotten here. Remember 3 of the 4 black boxes were found at WTC

Government Refuses to Release Communications From 9/11 Planes >>> The Village Voice's James Ridgeway and I teamed up to make a Freedom of Information Act request regarding communications from the four doomed flights of 9/11. We have been completely rebuffed. Below are the relevant extracts from our request letter and the reponses we received from the FAA, FBI, and CIA (the NSA has yet to respond).

See the response here (The Memory Hole)

I find it hard to think of a legitimate reason why such vital documents concerning a public nightmare should be withheld. If we've been told the complete truth about what happened onboard those flights, how would the release of these recordings jeopardize investigations into 9/11? The only answer that makes any sense is that the communications from the planes reveal things which we haven't been told.

[Nono]

Further to the WTC-demolished-by-explosive-charge theory and its proponents' point that no such building has ever collapsed from the effects of a fire, US media hardly cover foreign news so here's a link to a building in Madrid about a third the height of the Twin Towers that caught fire and burnt last night. The circumstances are not as yet known, but the thing thereupon partially collapsed, this mind you without the help of a planeload of jet fuel.

[gr8fuldaniel]

This Madrid fire Is into its 2nd day, yet hasnt collapsed (perfectly into its footprint :rolleyes: ) yet.

The WTC only burned for about 45 minutes each.

And the WTC fires were extinguished when they collapsed.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Correction: WTC towers collapsed 56 and 104 minutes after the planes hit.

WTC 7 collapsed without any airplane assistance at all.

[gr8fuldaniel]

It just plain wasnt hot enough to melt steel beams.WTC Demolition

The fire in the South Tower was thus less intense than that in the North Tower. But the South Tower collapsed first, at 9:59 a.m., 56 minutes after impact, whereas the North Tower collapsed at 10:29 a.m., 1 hour and 44 minutes after impact. Had the fires been the cause of the collapse then the North Tower, with its more intense fire, would have collapsed first. Or, put another way, had the fires been the cause of the collapse then the South Tower, hit after the North Tower, and subjected to a less intense fire, would have collapsed after (not before) the North Tower collapsed. <snip> A convincing case (with numerous web references supporting his argument) that the Twin Towers did not collapse because of the fires has been given by J. McMichael: Using jet fuel to melt steel is an amazing discovery, really. ... Ironworkers fool with acetylene torches, bottled oxygen, electric arcs from generators, electric furnaces, and other elaborate tricks, but what did these brilliant terrorists use? Jet fuel, costing maybe 80 cents a gallon on the open market. ... heating steel is like pouring syrup onto a plate: you can't get it to stack up. The heat just flows out to the colder parts of the steel, cooling off the part you are trying to warm up. ... Am I to believe that the fire burned all that time, getting constantly hotter until it reached melting temperature [1538°C, not 800°C as was reported]? Or did it burn hot and steady throughout until 200,000 tons of steel [the amount of steel in one of the Twin Towers] were heated molten — on one plane load of jet fuel? ... — Muslims Suspend Laws of Physics! Part I In a sequel to this article J. McMichael writes: ... the maximum temperature in the unprotected steel supports in those test fires [in the U.K., Japan, the U.S. and Australia] was 360 degrees C (680 F), and that is a long way from the first critical threshold in structural steel, 550 degrees C (1022 F). ... I think the case is made: The fire did not weaken the WTC structure sufficiently to cause the collapse of the towers. — Muslims Suspend Laws of Physics! Part II

[Matrixxx]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel If you cant DEBATE, go away. Ridicule is not an acceptable substitute for debate. If there is something in particular you disagree with point it out. Or go away.

Oh, you're serious?? LMAO!!

Yea, debate....ahem!!! Yeh...right.

It looks to me like you are engaging in monologue here, you're preaching a belief that has been unfounded and remains undeniably laughable. Pat Robertson saw a 900 foot Jesus once too, he has a following who swear by it too along with a plethera of helplessy ignorant "facts". You have it half right, I am not "debating", and neither are you.

[gr8fuldaniel]

You have the right to be wrong.

I have nt heard you challenge any of the facts yet. Dumbfounded?
Because the "official story" leaves too many unanswered questions.

People laughed at a lot of things, like the earth being round, space flight, etc. That doesnt make the doubters laughter more meaningful.

I have enough evidence, including motive, means and the way it was perpetrated, to seriously doubt what they are telling us to believe. You say I am gullible, I say you are. But I am the one offering proof. You are just blowing hot air. The Bush Mob has a horrible alibi. I wouldnt want to have to defend their flakey story either.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Matrixxx Oh, you're serious?? LMAO!! Yea, debate....ahem!!! Yeh...right. It looks to me like you are engaging in monologue here, you're preaching a belief that has been unfounded and remains undeniably laughable. Pat Robertson saw a 900 foot Jesus once too, he has a following who swear by it too along with a plethera of helplessy ignorant "facts". You have it half right, I am not "debating", and neither are you.

Windy opinions don't constitute debate, Matrixxx. You don't know squat from what you present. Dan is the winner if this is a debate site because he presented EVIDENCE...

So shove off if you have nothin' else.

[Nono]

This Madrid fire Is into its 2nd day, yet hasnt collapsed (perfectly into its footprint ) yet. The WTC only burned for about 45 minutes each. And the WTC fires were extinguished when they collapsed.

In the Volconvo debate on this subject, the demolition-theory proponents haven't been saying that no building has collapsed perfectly into its footprint after only 45 minutes. They've been saying simply No building ever collapsed owing to a fire.

Now that one has partially collapsed, the hedging starts.
The Madrid thing doesn't disprove the WTC-demolition theory. But it doesn't exactly help it.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Nono This Madrid fire Is into its 2nd day, yet hasnt collapsed (perfectly into its footprint ) yet. The WTC only burned for about 45 minutes each. And the WTC fires were extinguished when they collapsed. In the Volconvo debate on this subject, the demolition-theory proponents haven't been saying that no building has collapsed perfectly into its footprint after only 45 minutes. They've been saying simply No building ever collapsed owing to a fire. Now that one has partially collapsed, the hedging starts. The Madrid thing doesn't disprove the WTC-demolition theory. But it doesn't exactly help it.

I have been saying all along, it takes extreme heat to soften steel. Like a perfect mix of oxy-acetylene. A blue flame. Black smoke hinders the kind of oxygen needed for melting/softening STEEL. Especially an acre of steel.
The following observation was not reported by the Government owned media companies, or I would offer that for reference:

The Split-Second Error The giant steel beams used to build the towers had been cast in Japan -no American steel milll could roll out the massive 'I' beams. The explanation accepted by the mainstream media pundits for the collapse of both towers is that these beams softened like warm toffee in the intensity of the fires. <snip> But can the collapse in any event be really blamed on the fires within? The great explosions on impact had consumed all the jet fuel in seconds. Now it was plastic fixtures, cabling and internal partitioning that were burning. Or smoldering, to be more precise.

Where is the inferno? The flames were extinguished before the towers collapsed.

The Madrid tower may not be a good comparison since the skeleton is concrete rather than steel.
Maybe Madrid should have planted bombs so they could blame TERRORISTS!! and draw on patriotism and world sympathy, so they could promote/wage worldwide war on Peace!

Check the right-hand column 1/2 way down this page to find out the odd landlord dealings behind the scenes. The only transfer of ownership in 30 year existence happened 7 weeks before 911. It included terrorism insurance (bloomberg news). Do you have a new Westfield Mall in your neighborhood, since 9/11/01?
This guy owns it: Larry Silversteen

[Rainbow]

Which of you has a data or an information on the following issues, with concern to WTC location and construction (at least !!!) :
- the WTC's placement
- the WTC's environment
These 2 points give us the bases to debate the WTC collapse. This is the starting point we may begin debate. Otherwise, there is not much but speculations.
Post it, please.

In case of U.S. government involvement in 09-11-2001 events, I can post my arguments or you want to start with your ones. The choice is yours.

[Matrixxx]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Windy opinions don't constitute debate, Matrixxx. You don't know squat from what you present. Dan is the winner if this is a debate site because he presented EVIDENCE... So shove off if you have nothin' else.

Evidence? Nothing of the sort, I'm afraid. Nothing more than theories of conspiracy that holds no more water than anyone directing you to the Wright Brothers website which cites their theory as to why half the concoctions they invented could make man fly....but didn't.

Just reminding you that posting a URL to somebody who theorizes their POV on what happened does not a fact it make.

Shove off? If you're so goddamned sure of yourself you should want me to stay to prove it instead of acting like a bubbleheaded dimwit touting directives at those who disagree with you. :rolleyes:

[gr8fuldaniel]

OK, so stay and prove your point of view. Broad generalizations of

Nothing more than theories of conspiracy....

do not a debate make. Challenge anything I offered. Go for it. I WANT to be wrong about this stuff. Help me out here.

Start with how YOU think the towers fell. Should Demolition Contractors start using jet fuel to perfectly implode towers rather than expensive (Time and Material) explosives?

[gr8fuldaniel]

This sounds more credible than "The Amazing Fire Melting Steel Beams Trick"
Check it out:

Reopen 911.org Louie Cacchioli, aged 51, was a firefighter attached to Engine Company 47, based uptown in Harlem. “We were the first ones in the second tower after the plane struck,” Cacchioli recounted later. “I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the twentyfourth floor to get in a position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there were bombs set in the building.” Cacchioli was trapped in an elevator but was able to escape with the help of some fireman’s tools. (People Weekly, September 24, 2001)

Anyone care to dispute eyewitness accounts?

Teresa Veliz was a manager for a software development firm. She was on the 47th floor of the North Tower when American 11 struck. Veliz was able to reach the ground level at about the same time that the South Tower collapsed. Flung to the ground in total darkness, Veliz and a colleague followed another person who happened to have a flashlight. As she narrated later: “The flashlight led us into Borders bookstore, up an escalator, and out to Church Street. The explosions were going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons. I was afraid to go down Church Street towards Broadway, but I had to do it. I ended up on Vesey Street. There was another explosion. And another. I didn’t know which way to run.” (Murphy; Marrs 34)

Ross Milanytch viewed the scene from the 22nd floor of a nearby building. He reported seeing “small explosions on each floor. And after it all cleared, all that was left of the buildings, you could just see the steel girders in like a triangular sail shape. The structure was just completely gone.” (America at War; Marrs 34) Steve Evans, a reporter for the BBC, happened to be in the South Tower that morning. “I was at the base of the second tower, the second tower that was hit,” he reported. “There was an explosion – I didn’t think it was an explosion – but the base of the building shook. I felt it shake … then we were outside, the second explosion happened and then there was a series of explosions….We can only wonder at the kind of damage – the kind of human damage – which was caused by those explosions, those series of explosions.” (Christopher Bollyn, American Free Press; www.zeitenschrift.com/news/wtc/_wahrheit.ihtml)

[Lou Minotti]

Quote by: Matrixxx Evidence? Nothing of the sort, I'm afraid. Nothing more than theories of conspiracy that holds no more water than anyone directing you to the Wright Brothers website which cites their theory as to why half the concoctions they invented could make man fly....but didn't. Just reminding you that posting a URL to somebody who theorizes their POV on what happened does not a fact it make. Shove off? If you're so goddamned sure of yourself you should want me to stay to prove it instead of acting like a bubbleheaded dimwit touting directives at those who disagree with you. :rolleyes:

If it's all simply CT, why can't you articulate a reasonable explanation for all the FACTS that GR8 and others have posted?

[gr8fuldaniel]

The article I opened this thread with is no longer available at NYTimes, for free. I found it archived here; Unit Plans Closed Hearings on Collapse of the Towers
*********************************
I dont remember this topic appearing here at volconvo.
Pretty obvious conspiracy here, they sure are bold, eh?
Can you spell C_O_V_E_R_U_P ?

US aviation received 52 al-Qaeda warnings before 9/11 By Jenny Booth, Times Online America's aviation authority received numerous warnings about al-Qaeda attacks in the six months before 9/11, including five that mentioned hijackings and two that mentioned suicide operations, it has emerged. A previously published report by the commission set up to investigate the September 11 attacks on the United States reveals that the US Federal Aviation Authority received 52 intelligence reports on al-Qaeda between April and September 2001. The 911 Commission report criticises the FAA for failing to strengthen security measures in light of the reports, and accuses it of allowing a false sense of security to prevail.

911 Ommission has room to talk. It kept this a secret til after the election of "Beloved Leader", and his accomplice Condi Rice who LIED to America, under OATH!!!

[gr8fuldaniel]

I am still waiting for the simple explanation of these simple statements. I expect more silence to ensue.....

A Hidden Story Behind Sept. 11? NYTimes Story "It just isn't possible that 19 screw-ups with box cutters pulled this whole thing off," Mr. Walter said in a telephone interview Friday as he traveled from Florida to California by train. He has traveled by train since Sept. 11, 2001, he said, because he has been too scared to fly. "We've never gotten solid answers on why Tower 7 collapsed when it was two full blocks away from where the planes hit," he said. "We've also never received an answer for how such a large plane left such a small hole in the side of the Pentagon."

Conspiracists, your tin foil hats wont protect you from the truth! The official story does not explain this stuff away. I know, I know, we shouldnt question authority. Call me a rebel.