Impeach Bush

[tusaki]

Originally posted by macnpat, LOL, you can't handle the truth. Bush won.....................................................again. This time by more than last time. But, instead of analyzing why which would be so enlightening for you and educational, you put yourself in a state of denial, the consequences of which is more lost elections. I really feel sorry for you.

huh? no, I just feel that a map such as the one you showed, doesn't mean that it's a landslide victory. I think that the same map, but of an election year where the democrats won, like say Clinton 1996, would have looked almost exactly the same. (As in red area vs blue area) It only shows what a majority in a single county voted for, it doesn't show how many in such a county voted for 'the other guy'. It also doesn't show how many people are living in such a county. So, that for example alaskan counties, with only a few hundred people living in them would show up as huge areas going to one side or the other, while a county such as N.Y.City with 15 million people would show up on the map as a much smaller unit. Therefore, I think it is not reasonable to use such a map as a backup for the statement that it was a landslide victory. All that matters are the numbers:

59,459,765 voted for Bush
55,949,407 voted for Kerry
http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/index.html

And that is hardly what I call a landslide victory.

[macnpat]

Originally posted by tusaki, And that is hardly what I call a landslide victory.

Keep up Tusaki. No one said anything about a landslide.

Scribbler said,

"I think it was a slap in a way that Bush was highly preferred over Kerry. "

Maybe the map looks like a landslide to you, so you assigned that definition to my words, but I presented the map to show it was a definite slap against Kerry and the Dems. I mentioned no landslide.

But I do agree, it sure did look like a landslide, didn't it?

[tusaki]

Originally posted by macnpat,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (macnpat,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-tusaki, And that is hardly what I call a landslide victory.

Keep up Tusaki. No one said anything about a landslide.

Scribbler said,

"I think it was a slap in a way that Bush was highly preferred over Kerry. "

Maybe the map looks like a landslide to you, so you assigned that definition to my words, but I presented the map to show it was a definite slap against Kerry and the Dems. I mentioned no landslide.

But I do agree, it sure did look like a landslide, didn't it? [/b][/quote]

You are either missing my point or deliberately ignoring it. But you are correct, you said slap. Now, in my previous post, replace 'landslide' with 'slap' and read it again. the same argument stands: The map you are showing to prove your point isn't worth anything.

[Rainbow]

[

Originally posted by Gorgo, Try this: http://cesr.org/filestore2/download/523

I think I had already read this document (some time ago), and we already debated this issue on the "Volcanvo" forum.
U.N. Resolution #1441 (points 12 and 13) gives all the answers to that document.

As a matter of fact, that document omits these points 12 and 13, respectively. It makes me think, that people who represnt "The Center for Economic and Social Rights" (the authors) have rather pro-idealistic (or pacifistic, both ?) tendencies.
Generally, people who oppose the war in Iraq "by-pass" U.N. Resolution #1441 (points 12 and 13) on a purpose. They do not want to recognize it. They can not take it, that U.N. has given "go-ahead" to enter Iraq.

I do not blame those people (pacifists, idealists, conformists, ect.), since U.N. should be all about Peace. What U.N. should be all about and U.N. is (in reality), there are 2 different issues. And those people can not distiunguish these 2 matters.
They want the world to be like a "dreadmland". No, it is not, and it is not going to become with an exception :
- 1 Homo Sappiens dwells planet Earth, only (!)
2 or more Mankind's representatives will create troubles, and nothing but troubles. That is us : Human Being :-)))

[Suburbanite]

I said 'no', i wouldn't work towards it.

[macnpat]

Originally posted by tusaki, The map you are showing to prove your point isn't worth anything.

Well, that is rather subjective of you. The map is a clear demonstration why George W. Bush is your President.

[Dieval]

how about this map?

[OberonDOtherseid]

All I see is Dieval challenge you all to state your case and move forward with your accusations while you just come back whining more and more choking on excuses. Dieval, you're a true soldier to your president, there is only one of you against how many on this thread? And you have been run around in circles, words put in your mouth and you're still right there, I wouldn't mind having you in my camp had I been a leader of significance like George Bush.

The people of America voted in large numbers that Bush is guilty of nothing and deserves praise and support for this war and all policies sent forth on the home front and foriegn affairs. Put your big boy pants on and move forward in a positive manner, or, put your money where your mouth is and do something about your concerns besides whine and cry and make unfounded accusations of which have no more bite than toothless hound gnawing on a rubber ball.

The people of America have spoken on election day, don't keep fighting it, it isn't healthy.

[Scribbler1]

Originally posted by macnpat, Scribbler said, "I think it was a slap in a way that Bush was highly preferred over Kerry. "

Whoa there, Pard. Scribbler said nothing of the kind! You are quoting your own post.

I said the so-called "slap" was nothing of the sort, as the election was so close. A "slap" is like you taking all my money in a poker game. Kerry walked away with ALMOST half of the chips.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Just like a bullet that grazes past your head, a miss is a good as a mile. Almost gets you nothing.

[Dieval]

Originally posted by OberonDOtherseid, All I see is Dieval challenge you all to state your case and move forward with your accusations while you just come back whining more and more choking on excuses. Dieval, you're a true soldier to your president, there is only one of you against how many on this thread? And you have been run around in circles, words put in your mouth and you're still right there, I wouldn't mind having you in my camp had I been a leader of significance like George Bush. The people of America voted in large numbers that Bush is guilty of nothing and deserves praise and support for this war and all policies sent forth on the home front and foriegn affairs. Put your big boy pants on and move forward in a positive manner, or, put your money where your mouth is and do something about your concerns besides whine and cry and make unfounded accusations of which have no more bite than toothless hound gnawing on a rubber ball. The people of America have spoken on election day, don't keep fighting it, it isn't healthy.

Wow, thanks! Someone who understands what I was saying! :)

Oh, and I still haven't taken part of the actual poll part of this thread...I still think it's completely asinine.

[macnpat]

Originally posted by Scribbler1,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Scribbler1,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-macnpat, Scribbler said, "I think it was a slap in a way that Bush was highly preferred over Kerry. "

Whoa there, Pard. Scribbler said nothing of the kind! You are quoting your own post.

I said the so-called "slap" was nothing of the sort, as the election was so close. A "slap" is like you taking all my money in a poker game. Kerry walked away with ALMOST half of the chips.[/b][/quote]

Mea Culpa!!!!! Sorry Scribbler......

I knew my rebuttal was coming along without much effort. LOL

[tusaki]

Originally posted by macnpat,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (macnpat,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-tusaki, The map you are showing to prove your point isn't worth anything.

Well, that is rather subjective of you. The map is a clear demonstration why George W. Bush is your President. [/b][/quote]

Well, I'm a dutch citizen, so he'll never be "my " president. I'm still amazed that you find a GEOGRAPHIC map more important than a DEMOGRAPHIC map. Please look up the difference between the two in your dictionary.

[macnpat]

Originally posted by tusaki, Well, I'm a dutch citizen, so he'll never be "my " president. I'm still amazed that you find a GEOGRAPHIC map more important than a DEMOGRAPHIC map. Please look up the difference between the two in your dictionary.

I don't care if you are Dutch, surely you have some common sense. If you were running for President and that map was a representation of your victory at the polls, you wouldn't be acting so high and mighty.

As far as my dictionary goes, it won't take away that bitter taste in your mouth. LOL

[tusaki]

So when I think you are using skewed data to back up a point you are making, all you can say is that I am bitter. That's like saying "I dont care what you say because your left shoelace is untied".

All I'm saying is that when you make a map showing who has won where, you should make it fair and take into account A) the % of the votes in the county. B) the population density.

this is a fair map:



and here is explained why:
http://www.research.att.com/%7Esuresh/cartogram/
http://geomblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/

and if you dont like a mangled america, even using this is fairer:



or this, showing population density as the 'height'



This, opposed to your map, which is a prime example of how statistics can be used to give a skewed view on issues.

Tufte states the principle that:
"The representation of numbers, as physically measured on the surface of the graphic itself, should be directly proportional to the quantities represented."

[Technosoul]

Well it seems that the majority of politically conscious people do want better answers for the war upon Saddam then what has so far been provided to the public by White House sources, and it seems that impeachment hearings where they must speak under oath is the only way to gain the real facts that we should expect and should deserve.

Technosoul.

[Scribbler1]

That's if you believe the simple act of taking an oath will compel anyone to tell the truth.

[macnpat]

Tusaki,

I'm not at all adverse to looking at your interesting maps.

Why do you have a problem with mine?

[tusaki]

Because it gives the impression that 98% of america voted Bush, which is false. It's like using a graph with a logaritmic scale and saying "wow, profit sure has exploded in the last couple of years". It is unfair to use such maps and graphs for any argumentation. But I do understand that map was for 'gloating' purposes only. And to annoy democrats. My point is that you can use such maps all you want, I just wanted you and others to know there is more to it.

[macnpat]

Originally posted by tusaki, Because it gives the impression that 98% of america voted Bush, which is false. It's like using a graph with a logaritmic scale and saying "wow, profit sure has exploded in the last couple of years". It is unfair to use such maps and graphs for any argumentation. But I do understand that map was for 'gloating' purposes only. And to annoy democrats. My point is that you can use such maps all you want, I just wanted you and others to know there is more to it.

No, you are wrong. Bush won. That's all there is to it here in America.

Bush will lead and hopefully, Kerry will get back in the trenches and serve our country in his own capacity.

That's America for yas.