Soldiers Are Not Heroes.

[Night]

I make the following assertion:

Soldiers are not heroes and should not be "worshipped" as they are in the media.

REAL heroes do not kill people because they were ordered to. Real heroes help other people without killing anyone. If the entire world adopted this attitude, that soldiers are not heroes, then the world would be a much better place.

Soldiers are not heroes. People who volunteer to work in Africa, people who volunteer at homeless shelters...those people are the REAL heroes.

Feel free to debate my assertion! Let's have a respectful debate. Keep your heads cool.

[Thanatos]

How much do you count motive? The truth is war is seldom productive. A lot of people don't believe that's true when they join.

Can someone be a hero for only believing they're helping?

[Night]

Quote by: Thanatos Can someone be a hero for only believing they're helping?

How are you "helping" the world by joining one of man's militaries?

I say no. If you do harm to the world, you are not a "hero".

[Angry Citizen]

The soldier is only as good as the politician who commands him. I would spit on you in the street if you asserted that the Revolutionary soldiers were not heroes, every last one of them (even Benedict Arnold). I could understand questioning the patriotism of the Iraq soldiers, but I would still look upon you with disgust. The soldiers sent into Iraq did a very bad deed in committing needless war, but the soldiers never signed on for it. They signed on to protect the country. If our politicians order them to do terrible things, it's the politician's fault.

These people risk getting shot at so you can question their patriotism. I think that deserves the utmost respect. The simple fact remains that this world is chaotic. If we have no military, then those who do have a military and are less altruistic than you and your la-la-land friends could stroll right on into Washington. The military is deterrent; it's the politicians who turn them into a weapon of global harm. Don't ever forget it.

[Century 25]

They are victims. Many are so hard up for employment & medical benefits - they enlist in the 'reserves' - which of course is a back door draft.

People are easily manipulated, especially the young.. Also, the patriot games they play on people. Remember Tillman ? Pat Tillman was a former Arizona Cardinals safety who walked away from a multimillion dollar contract to join the Army Rangers in the wake of the 9/11... He had a young wife.. he was so moved by the moment.. it is very very sad.

Army Withheld Details About Tillman's Death - washingtonpost.com

Also read this pre-story. It is pretty bad, very sad. It is about him & his way of living.. it got him dead. This goes back to 2002.

His brother joined up also. After he got out he wrote this:

Pat Tillman's brother blasts Iraq war

Here is an excerpt from above link:

The brothers, both Arizona State University graduates, joined the Army in response to the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. They served together as Rangers with the 2nd Battalion of the 75th Ranger Regiment.

"Somehow, the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes," Kevin wrote. "Somehow, the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow, this is tolerated. Somehow, nobody is accountable for this." (We know who it was)

A more complete story is here: Powerful letter from Pat Tillman's brother: no wonder I miss | News Forums - Current Affairs | STLtoday

War is sick. The people who perpetrate wars.. greedy sick bastards. It will never stop.

[Diogenes]

A ' hero ' is anyone, of any station, who does something noble that the average person would not do in the same situation...

whether that be jumping on a grenade

intervening on the behalf of someone being assaulted

going into a burning building to save someone

even inviting a homeless person home to have a shower and get something to eat

anything noble that the ' average ' person would not do given the same circumstances.

[tinybear]

Soldiers not heroes? Gee, why not?

[rhod01]

"The soldiers sent into Iraq did a very bad deed in committing needless war, but the soldiers never signed on for it."

They knew what they were signing up for. And if they received an order to participate in a war of aggression they should have refused. That's the law.

"They signed on to protect the country"

And aided in attacking another country. Someone who is committed to repelling foreign attacks on your country doesn't leave its shores.

Oh and tinybear, you do realise that the planting of the flag was a staged event don't you? It never really happened.

[GeminiBrian]

[QUOTE=tinybear;665215]Soldiers not heroes? Gee, why not?

Tiananmen square?

Tibet?

[Angry Citizen]

And if they received an order to participate in a war of aggression they should have refused. That's the law.

You see, they didn't think that it was a war of aggression. They thought it was a war of prevention. The whole "WMD" thing, remember?

And, it's kinda hard to refuse an order in the military. You kinda get punished for that. Harshly.

[Jack]

As a former soldier myself I don't believe simply enlisting or being drafted makes anyone a hero. I agree with Diogenes. Heroism is acting beyond the average in life threatening and horrific conditions.

[RickSp]

If a soldier's primary job is to kill other soldiers before being killed by himself, it becomes difficult to identify who exactly is the hero, unless the slaughter of our fellow human beings is in itself a virtue.

The problem in the US is that we have abandoned our own traditions to glorify militarism. Our foreign policy dictates that we will be ensnared in endless warfare, that we will maintain a military presence in every corner of the globe, and that we will spend more for arms than all other countries in the world combined. By definition, every soldier who fights and dies in a needless war is said to be a "hero" fighting for America, protecting our freedoms and liberties. The lie keeps getting retold in new wars over new graves.

If individual courage and valor is used to define heroism, then the title "hero" applies to so many soldiers throughout history on all sides of every conflict. Their sacrifices are then too used as an excuse to wage more war.

[tinybear]

[QUOTE=GeminiBrian;665231]

Quote by: tinybear Soldiers not heroes? Gee, why not? Tiananmen square? Tibet?

Foreign commie soldiers acting under orders of a dictatorship. I'm surprised you can't see the difference.

[RickSp]

[QUOTE=tinybear;665274]

Quote by: GeminiBrian Foreign commie soldiers acting under orders of a dictatorship. I'm surprised you can't see the difference.

The original post argues 'soldiers are not heroes'. Are you claiming that "foreign commie soldiers" are not soldiers?

[Angry Citizen]

I think it actually proves my point. The soldier is only as good as the politician.

[Diogenes]

By definition, every soldier who fights and dies in a needless war is said to be a "hero" fighting for America, protecting our freedoms and liberties. The lie keeps getting retold in new wars over new graves.

Actually that would apply to ' any ' battle or conflict not just needless wars...but yes, people generally do associate death in conflict with heroism...

more disturbing is people's association with heroism with sports and other areas that have nothing to do with heroism.

The word ' hero ' has been so watered down that it doesn't carry the weight that it should anymore ( if it ever did )...

the firemen who went into the Towers to rescue people were heroes...the passengers who stopped the plane were heroes...the guy who steps up to stop a bunch of punks from beating a man because he's black or gay is a hero...the guy who stops to pull a child from a burning car is a hero...

the people who died in the shuttle were not heroes, they were victims of circumstance...the guy who scores the game winning goal is not a hero...the soldiers that die in war are not heroes but victims of circumstance...

hero has become a catch-all word...I've even heard it used in completely absurd ways such as in regard to a guy who ponies up money to save a local park.

[tinybear]

[QUOTE=RickSp;665277]

Quote by: tinybear The original post argues 'soldiers are not heroes'. Are you claiming that "foreign commie soldiers" are not soldiers?

Well, yeah. Aliens don't count. Sheesh, next thing ya know, you'd call terrorists 'soldiers'. Rick, you disappoint me, you do.

[RickSp]

[QUOTE=tinybear;665291]

Quote by: RickSp Well, yeah. Aliens don't count. Sheesh, next thing ya know, you'd call terrorists 'soldiers'. Rick, you disappoint me, you do.

Tiny, your inability to grasp even simple concepts continues to amaze me.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Diogenes hero has become a catch-all word...I've even heard it used in completely absurd ways such as in regard to a guy who ponies up money to save a local park.

In New York, a hero is also a sandwich.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Night I make the following assertion: Soldiers are not heroes and should not be "worshipped" as they are in the media. REAL heroes do not kill people because they were ordered to. Real heroes help other people without killing anyone. If the entire world adopted this attitude, that soldiers are not heroes, then the world would be a much better place. Soldiers are not heroes. People who volunteer to work in Africa, people who volunteer at homeless shelters...those people are the REAL heroes. Feel free to debate my assertion! Let's have a respectful debate. Keep your heads cool.

Ronald Reagan once said something like, "To avoid war just surrender". You apparently adhere to that statement. It is also pathetic.

How many times can we lose before it takes effect?