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Sonart · May 21, 2009, 01:46 pm

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While I enjoy 'American Idol', it's really only a warmup act for me, the show I can get involved in while I impatiently await the show I've been waiting for all year. Because among the performing arts, my real passion is dance.

And not 'Dancing with the Stars', although I do watch it faithfully. But DWTS is not real dance... it's some wonderful pros dancing with amateurs, most of whom are totally dreadful. And even those who do well, they're still obvious amateurs. And DWTS is limited strictly to ballroom styles, standard and latin.

So if you like dance... REAL dance ...the show to watch starts this Thursday night on Fox, with their two hour premier, the 5th season of So You Think You Can Dance.

(I'm such a huge fan that I've already watched the entire 2nd season of 'So You Think You Can Dance - Australia' and the premier season of 'So You Think You Can Dance - Canada' on YouTube. Anyone curious to know how I did that, just ask)

SYTYCD follows essentially the same formula as American Idol. During the first few weeks, you watch as the thousands who audition around the country are whittled down to a select 100 who, golden ticket in hand, are then sent to Las Vegas. From there they are put through a grueling, weeklong elimination process, at which point 10 boys and 10 girls are selected for the top 20, who will compete in the show.

For the show, contestants compete in boy girl pairs before a panel of 2 permanent judges and 1 or 2 guest judges, and the show lives up to it's name. The young contestants represent almost every genre of dance styles, from street dancing hip hop to ballroom to ballet to contemporary. The common challenge is that they must all compete in randomly chosen styles, most of which they're probably completely unfamiliar with. So, you think you can dance? Fine, let's see a B-boy and a ballet dancer do a compelling Argentine Tango. Or Krumping. Or Broadway theatrical. Or African Samba. Or the Viennese Waltz. Or Bollywood. Or whatever. The styles are endless.

For the first 5 shows, the dancers are initially paired by the shows judges and producers in pairs they hope will create some chemistry, and they stay in those pairs, dancing one number a show. Each show, one boy and one girl is eliminated, until the top 20 is pared down to the top 10. If a boy partner is eliminated, his female partner goes to the boy partner for the eliminated girl.

The style they have to dance is drawn from a hat, and they are assigned to a choreographer who specializes in that style, and I mean some of the top choreographers in the country, with a week to learn the routine. And the choreographers are instructed to challenge them with technically difficult routines.

Once down to the Top 10, the dancers pick a new partner for each show, along with TWO dance styles to perform each show. A boy and a girl are eliminated each show, until the Final Four. Then, each of the four dances with each of the other three, so there's a girl/girl routine and a boy/boy routine, as well as two boy/girl numbers.

Like Idol and Stars, there's two shows a week, the competition and the elimination, and one of the week's hilites is the start of each elimination show, when one of the choreographers creates a number for all the remaining dancers. These are some of the most showy, entertaining numbers of the season.

The music they dance to is fantastic and they are designed amazing outfits for each number. But the bottom line is that these are some of the most talented dancers in America, doing incredible, often intensely moving routines, and competing in one of the most intense, grueling athletically demanding crucibles of dance ever created.

Can't wait. Anyone else out there interested?

(An ethereal routine choreographed for the top 5 girls - Top Ten Show - by contemporary choreographer Mia Michaels)

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Muckraker · May 21, 2009, 05:04 pm

I know those two shows are extremely addictive but the more I think about it the more I have a fundamental problem with the format.

The first few weeks of both shows are devoted to planting the seeds of their "spotlight" players amidst fields of physically disabled, untalented, and mentally questionable contestants.

We tune in on day one to laugh at the "freaks." We tune in halfway through the season to watch amateur dancers and singers get trounced by the talent. Then we tune in at the end to see who wins.

It seems to me that the "search for the next great talent" would go a bit more smoothly if that is what it actually was. Unfortunately the shows are both cheap and gimmicky and the format hasn't evolved even though their fan base has solidified.

It's interesting that both shows are so popular with school-age kids and a bit hypocritical that parents and teachers push home the messages of "it's what's inside that counts" and "bullying is wrong" and yet we all tune in and enjoy making fun of the "contestants" in the first few weeks of those shows.

Check out the Paula Goodspeed audition video for American Idol. She was disheartened by her rejection and killed herself outside Paula Abdul's house. In the audition video Seacrest actually says, "Brace yourself for this audition," while the camera does a closeup of the woman's braces. Seriously...

On the plus side, the last few rounds of cuts are usually interesting and the talent at that point is usually pretty talented. I caught the end of a season of America's Best Dance Crew a year or two ago and that was pretty cool too.

I had watched the first few seasons of Idol and SYTYCD in their entirety but if I watch them at all now it is usually just at the very end of the season.

Apeman81 · May 21, 2009, 05:18 pm

I enjoy this show as well. The choreographers often amaze. I can only imagine the thrill of these youngsters to partake of this event.

GeminiBrian · May 21, 2009, 06:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Sonart

While I enjoy 'American Idol', it's really only a warmup act for me, the show I can get involved in while I impatiently await the show I've been waiting for all year. Because among the performing arts, my real passion is dance... etc.

Blimey, Sonart - you sure have the power to enthuse!

I'm beginning to feel as if I'm missing out on something, but whether I'll go so far as to watch the UK's tremendously popular equivalent 'Strictly Come Dancing' when the new series starts remains to be seen.

Talk us up some more - I believe Cruella already is a fan (if memory serves). No doubt she'll contradict me if I'm wrong...

**Cruella** · May 21, 2009, 06:20 pm

I much prefer American Idol (and X Factor) to Strictly, but that's mainly because I can sing, and can't dance. I do like the dresses though. Yes, I am shallow at times.

GeminiBrian · May 21, 2009, 06:30 pm

Quote:

Quote by: CruellaDeChaCha

I much prefer American Idol (and X Factor) to Strictly, but that's mainly because I can sing, and can't dance. I do like the dresses though. Yes, I am shallow at times.

Does that mean we can look forward to seeing you on the X Factor anytime soon, Cruella?

I'd love to organise the after show party... to show you off to my gay mates...!!

**Cruella** · May 21, 2009, 06:31 pm

My housemate is always suggesting that we should try out. Sadly, I don't think we'd get beyond the "comedy audition" ghetto.

GeminiBrian · May 21, 2009, 06:34 pm

Quote:

Quote by: CruellaDeChaCha

My housemate is always suggesting that we should try out. Sadly, I don't think we'd get beyond the "comedy audition" ghetto.

But you have the 'camp appeal factor' - that should get you far...

**Cruella** · May 21, 2009, 06:37 pm

Sadly, I don't think Heart songs sang in the style of Louis Armstrong (our particular speciality) will catch on ...

GeminiBrian · May 21, 2009, 06:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: CruellaDeChaCha

Sadly, I don't think Heart songs sang in the style of Louis Armstrong (our particular speciality) will catch on ...

Maybe not... ever thought of doing a Julie Andrews number?

She's always popular in pink-land (or Minelli, of course).

My personal vote goes to either the Beverly sisters or the Andrews sisters - which gives my age away somewhat...

**Cruella** · May 21, 2009, 06:50 pm

<wonders if can sing "A Spoonful of Sugar" in the style of Louis Armstrong>

GeminiBrian · May 21, 2009, 06:53 pm

Quote:

Quote by: CruellaDeChaCha

<wonders if can sing "A Spoonful of Sugar" in the style of Louis Armstrong>

How old were you when your voice broke, Cruella?

Sonart · May 21, 2009, 07:33 pm

.

Quote:

Quote by: Apeman

I enjoy this show as well. The choreographers often amaze. I can only imagine the thrill of these youngsters to partake of this event.

An unbelievable thrill, but tempered by what has to be an exhausting pace. The way I understand it, going from learning one completely new number (actually 2 when you include the weekly group routine) each week, then two numbers, plus the group, and then four, and to get them perfect, the dancers do nothing but eat, sleep - a little - and rehearse dances for about 2 and a half months solid.

Still, one of the things about dancers is what was pointed out so emotionally in 'A Chorus Line', which is that dancers - who are among the most talented, physically fit, most flexible and the most coordinated athletes in the world - generally toil away in total anonymity, for little money and with the constant threat of career ending injuries. And while we see them all the time, backing up the big headline acts, or on the stage, we never know who they are. Dancers dance for the love of it, period. So it's wonderful to see these kids become stars, if just for their fifteen minutes.

Quote:

Quote by: Muckraker

I know those two shows are extremely addictive but the more I think about it the more I have a fundamental problem with the format.

If it's a problem, it's a problem of making lemons into lemonade, and I agree that it's my least favorite part of both shows.

But it's just a fact that both AI and SYTYCD get thousands upon thousands of people auditioning. So either they ignore that part of the process and cut straight to the competition - and miss out on half the drama - or you entertain your audience with the undeniable reality that the vast majority auditioning don't have a lick of talent. Which certainly makes clear just what it takes to be among the best.

But yes, for the most part it's kinda boring and I'm like you. I don't particularly enjoy the first weeks of the season that focus on the auditions, but I think in the end it puts everything in context.

Quote:

Quote by: Muckraker

The first few weeks of both shows are devoted to planting the seeds of their "spotlight" players amidst fields of physically disabled, untalented, and mentally questionable contestants.

I don't mind the selected spotlight dancers. After all the producers have the advantage of knowing who made it through by the time the show airs, so amid all the disasters and wannabes, I actually like it that they do a bit of "keep your eye on this one" for us. Given that we're not voting for anyone until the actual show starts, they're certainly not influencing any votes. Not to mention that you find yourself rooting for many who will eventually get weeded out in Vegas.

Quote:

Quote by: Muckraker

I caught the end of a season of America's Best Dance Crew a year or two ago and that was pretty cool too.

Yeah, me too. I've watched that last two seasons, watching Jabberwokky and Quest Crew win. I was kinda rooting for the girls crew, Beat Freaks, cuz, damn they were good. So were the Fly Girls, but Quest Crew was just amazing.

DID YOU KNOW? - two of the members of Quest Crew met on SYTYCD, season three. Hok and Dominic. Hok made it to the top ten, but only just. Poor guy was just too short, but damn, can he break dance. And Hok's best SYTYCD number, a contemporary piece called the hummingbird dance because it was so memorable (even now) actually won an Emmy for choreography. Dominic was initially partnered with Sabra, who went on to win season 3. They were wonderful together, with an amazing chemistry and it was heartbreaking when Dominic was cut for the top 6.

Also, two of the professional ballroom dancers currently on Dancing with the Stars are SYTYCD alums... Lacey Schwimmer from season 3 (top4) and Chelsie Hightower from season 4 (top 6).

Hok and Lacey

Quote:

Quote by: Muckraker

I had watched the first few seasons of Idol and SYTYCD in their entirety but if I watch them at all now it is usually just at the very end of the season.

Not me. I'd pass the audition process if I had to, but once the Top 20 starts competing, there's waayy too much great dance routines that I don't want to miss. Some of the most emotional and memorable numbers have come out the first few rounds.

Count me tuned in, starting tonight!

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Sonart · May 21, 2009, 07:36 pm

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Is 'Strictly Come Dancing' strictly ballroom? If so, it's definitely not the same thing.

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Sonart · May 21, 2009, 08:12 pm

.

Cruella, given your handle, I figured you be all over this.

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**Cruella** · May 22, 2009, 04:08 am

Strictly Come Dancing is the UK version of Dancing With The Stars, based on a very long running dance show called Come Dancing that started running in the 50's, I think. DWTS is a direct steal from that. And yes, it's not the same show.

I could tell you the story behind my name , but you'd blush.

tinybear · May 22, 2009, 05:48 am

I don't blush easily. Please tell me.

GeminiBrian · May 22, 2009, 06:13 am

Quote:

Quote by: CruellaDeChaCha

I could tell you the story behind my name , but you'd blush.

Are we allowed to guess?

**Cruella** · May 22, 2009, 11:37 am

You can guess via PM, if you like. I think Sonart will be upset about all the chat on his lovely dance-thread ...

tinybear · May 22, 2009, 01:46 pm

Chinese ballroom dance music. What do you think?

YouTube - cmc0799's Channel

May 21, 2009, 01:46 pm	#1 (permalink)
Sonart It's only logical Location: San Diego Posts: 6,515	Now that the warmup act is over, it's time for the real show . While I enjoy 'American Idol', it's really only a warmup act for me, the show I can get involved in while I impatiently await the show I've been waiting for all year. Because among the performing arts, my real passion is dance. And not 'Dancing with the Stars', although I do watch it faithfully. But DWTS is not real dance... it's some wonderful pros dancing with amateurs, most of whom are totally dreadful. And even those who do well, they're still obvious amateurs. And DWTS is limited strictly to ballroom styles, standard and latin. So if you like dance... REAL dance ...the show to watch starts this Thursday night on Fox, with their two hour premier, the 5th season of *So You Think You Can Dance. (I'm such a huge fan that I've already watched the entire 2nd season of 'So You Think You Can Dance - Australia'* and the premier season of 'So You Think You Can Dance - Canada' on YouTube. Anyone curious to know how I did that, just ask) SYTYCD follows essentially the same formula as American Idol. During the first few weeks, you watch as the thousands who audition around the country are whittled down to a select 100 who, golden ticket in hand, are then sent to Las Vegas. From there they are put through a grueling, weeklong elimination process, at which point 10 boys and 10 girls are selected for the top 20, who will compete in the show. For the show, contestants compete in boy girl pairs before a panel of 2 permanent judges and 1 or 2 guest judges, and the show lives up to it's name. The young contestants represent almost every genre of dance styles, from street dancing hip hop to ballroom to ballet to contemporary. The common challenge is that they must all compete in randomly chosen styles, most of which they're probably completely unfamiliar with. So, you think you can dance? Fine, let's see a B-boy and a ballet dancer do a compelling Argentine Tango. Or Krumping. Or Broadway theatrical. Or African Samba. Or the Viennese Waltz. Or Bollywood. Or whatever. The styles are endless. For the first 5 shows, the dancers are initially paired by the shows judges and producers in pairs they hope will create some chemistry, and they stay in those pairs, dancing one number a show. Each show, one boy and one girl is eliminated, until the top 20 is pared down to the top 10. If a boy partner is eliminated, his female partner goes to the boy partner for the eliminated girl. The style they have to dance is drawn from a hat, and they are assigned to a choreographer who specializes in that style, and I mean some of the top choreographers in the country, with a week to learn the routine. And the choreographers are instructed to challenge them with technically difficult routines. Once down to the Top 10, the dancers pick a new partner for each show, along with TWO dance styles to perform each show. A boy and a girl are eliminated each show, until the Final Four. Then, each of the four dances with each of the other three, so there's a girl/girl routine and a boy/boy routine, as well as two boy/girl numbers. Like Idol and Stars, there's two shows a week, the competition and the elimination, and one of the week's hilites is the start of each elimination show, when one of the choreographers creates a number for all the remaining dancers. These are some of the most showy, entertaining numbers of the season. The music they dance to is fantastic and they are designed amazing outfits for each number. But the bottom line is that these are some of the most talented dancers in America, doing incredible, often intensely moving routines, and competing in one of the most intense, grueling athletically demanding crucibles of dance ever created. Can't wait. Anyone else out there interested? (An ethereal routine choreographed for the top 5 girls - Top Ten Show - by contemporary choreographer Mia Michaels) . I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

May 21, 2009, 07:36 pm	#14 (permalink)
Sonart It's only logical Location: San Diego Posts: 6,515	. Is 'Strictly Come Dancing' strictly ballroom? If so, it's definitely not the same thing. . I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

May 21, 2009, 08:12 pm	#15 (permalink)
Sonart It's only logical Location: San Diego Posts: 6,515	. Cruella, given your handle, I figured you be all over this. . I don't suffer from insanity... I thoroughly enjoy it

May 21, 2009, 05:04 pm	#2 (permalink)
Muckraker Igneous Magma Posts: 675	I know those two shows are extremely addictive but the more I think about it the more I have a fundamental problem with the format. The first few weeks of both shows are devoted to planting the seeds of their "spotlight" players amidst fields of physically disabled, untalented, and mentally questionable contestants. We tune in on day one to laugh at the "freaks." We tune in halfway through the season to watch amateur dancers and singers get trounced by the talent. Then we tune in at the end to see who wins. It seems to me that the "search for the next great talent" would go a bit more smoothly if that is what it actually was. Unfortunately the shows are both cheap and gimmicky and the format hasn't evolved even though their fan base has solidified. It's interesting that both shows are so popular with school-age kids and a bit hypocritical that parents and teachers push home the messages of "it's what's inside that counts" and "bullying is wrong" and yet we all tune in and enjoy making fun of the "contestants" in the first few weeks of those shows. Check out the Paula Goodspeed audition video for American Idol. She was disheartened by her rejection and killed herself outside Paula Abdul's house. In the audition video Seacrest actually says, "Brace yourself for this audition," while the camera does a closeup of the woman's braces. Seriously... On the plus side, the last few rounds of cuts are usually interesting and the talent at that point is usually pretty talented. I caught the end of a season of America's Best Dance Crew a year or two ago and that was pretty cool too. I had watched the first few seasons of Idol and SYTYCD in their entirety but if I watch them at all now it is usually just at the very end of the season.

May 21, 2009, 05:18 pm	#3 (permalink)
Apeman81 Seek truth Location: Arizona, United States of America Posts: 2,696	I enjoy this show as well. The choreographers often amaze. I can only imagine the thrill of these youngsters to partake of this event.

May 21, 2009, 06:20 pm	#5 (permalink)
Cruella Moderator Posts: 3,751	I much prefer American Idol (and X Factor) to Strictly, but that's mainly because I can sing, and can't dance. I do like the dresses though. Yes, I am shallow at times.

May 21, 2009, 06:31 pm	#7 (permalink)
Cruella Moderator Posts: 3,751	My housemate is always suggesting that we should try out. Sadly, I don't think we'd get beyond the "comedy audition" ghetto.

May 21, 2009, 06:37 pm	#9 (permalink)
Cruella Moderator Posts: 3,751	Sadly, I don't think Heart songs sang in the style of Louis Armstrong (our particular speciality) will catch on ...

May 21, 2009, 06:50 pm	#11 (permalink)
Cruella Moderator Posts: 3,751	<wonders if can sing "A Spoonful of Sugar" in the style of Louis Armstrong>

May 22, 2009, 04:08 am	#16 (permalink)
Cruella Moderator Posts: 3,751	Strictly Come Dancing is the UK version of Dancing With The Stars, based on a very long running dance show called Come Dancing that started running in the 50's, I think. DWTS is a direct steal from that. And yes, it's not the same show. I could tell you the story behind my name , but you'd blush.

May 22, 2009, 05:48 am	#17 (permalink)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 8,441	I don't blush easily. Please tell me.

May 22, 2009, 11:37 am	#19 (permalink)
Cruella Moderator Posts: 3,751	You can guess via PM, if you like. I think Sonart will be upset about all the chat on his lovely dance-thread ...

May 22, 2009, 01:46 pm	#20 (permalink)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 8,441	Chinese ballroom dance music. What do you think? YouTube - cmc0799's Channel