Is this what really happened?

[Osborn F Enready]

This site takes a minute to load, and I believe requires a flash player, but well worth the look. See for yourself.

Actual testimony of those that saw "what" hit the pentagon, video footage from the pentagon security cameras, and a ton more information on just what the press and the Fed don't want you to see.

http://www.elchulo.net/files/pentagon.swf



What do you think?
(Please don't answer if you haven't watched the video.)

[katar]

nice video.

one of the neater conspiracy theories around, partly because it doesnt accuse and point fingers-- it simply raises doubts.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Nothing adds up to the official story on 911. Its as if they dont really care if we believe it or not. One thing this video doesnt point out is that the parking lot video was doctored and several critical frames were removed from the "leaked video". Excellent little movie though.

[Sonart]

What do I think?

I was just wondering if you leave the Crack right there by the computer and smoke it as you go, or do you leave it out in the living room and take breaks?

[Mr.Vicchio]

I think the fact the plane, the passengers all dissappeared, but hundreds of people saw the plane hit, the debris of the plane was strewn throughout the pentagon...

All point to: High Jacked Air Craft hits Pentagon!

But hey, believe whatever you will.

[Compugasm]

I have no idea. All the "it sounded like a missle" makes me wonder what a missle sounds like, cause I wouldn't know. Clinton can't keep one intern silent, but President hatched this master plan? I thought he was a stupid idiot? Oh, now it's his "administration" cause he couldn't have done it alone. Please, this is a waste of time. I've talked to almost 20 people who've seen UFO's. Maybe thats what they heard hitting the pentagon.

[bugsbunny04]

The one thing that sticks out to me is that someone smelled cordite. That is not consistent with a plane crash. But it could be BS.

I think a lot of the pictures looked doctored. They did a good job, it was pretty slick, but some of the pictures you can see little subtleties if you know what to look for (things that should be in the same lighting being lit differently, areas not being illuminated when they should be, other areas over illuminated and so on...).

My question is this...if that 757 didnt hit the pentagon, WTF did it go? Are the passengers imaginary? Was the plane imaginary? Are all the families imaginary? That is quite a stretch.

[gr8fuldaniel]

[possible scenario]
All passengers that morning were shuttled onto the one plane that crashed in Pennsylvania field. The only crash that had luggage. The only one that had been shot down, because the hijackers had been overpowered and the mission thwarted. Cant have witnesses mucking up an already weak "Official Line". With the transponder off and the FAA destroying tapes of ATC dialogue, AA77 is free to find a private hanger or a deserted, heavily secured military base. Until another terrorist attack is necessary to declare a state of emergency and postpone elections indefinately. [/possible scenario]

[Mr.Vicchio]

All the other crashes burned everything to a crisp... you think luggae will survive burning inside a concrete building flooded with fuel?

[Compugasm]

[possible scenario]
gr8fuldaniel has been sniffing cordite.
[/possible scenario]

[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, All the other crashes burned everything to a crisp... you think luggae will survive burning inside a concrete building flooded with fuel?

How many black boxes were found and the information retrieved?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Mr.Vicchio, All the other crashes burned everything to a crisp... you think luggae will survive burning inside a concrete building flooded with fuel?

I thought we had already established the hole was too small for a 757 to pass through?

link Wingspan 124 ft 10 in (hereafter rounded to 125 ft) Length 155 ft 3 in (rounded to 155 ft) Tail height (with landing gear extended ) 44 ft 6 in Fuselage Width 12 ft 4 in (rounded to 12 ft ) Max fuel capacity 11,489 gallons Max range 4449 miles Max take off weight 255,000 lb. The following specifications were not directly available from any source I could find, but I calculated them based on the above figures, after measuring diagrams and photos. Exact accuracy cannot be guaranteed, but they are close and are sufficient for this analysis. Tail height (without landing gear extended) 35 ft Fuselage height (without landing gear extended) 14 ft 6 in (7 ft 3 in above wings, 7 ft 3 in below wings)) Length of each wing 56 ft 3 in Engine diameter. 9 ft. 6 in Engine length 11 ft 6 in Position of engine mounting on wing. Outer edge of engine 25 ft from where wing joins fuselage. Width of each tail fin 15 ft 6 in Total tail fin span 39 ft (fuselage is narrower at this point) An estimated 5 ft of engine is below fuselage level, making the total height of the aircraft without landing gear extended, 40 ft. You’ll find the calculations throughout this article easier to critically analyze, if you write down the above figures before continuing.

There is no Official investigation reporting of the facts involved so we have to rely on "Unofficial" investigation to arrive at a rational conclusion of events.

eastman But wait. We are not finished yet. We had no right to make the Boeing 757 tail fin the same size as the killer jet's tail fin. A Boeing 757 is over twice as long (155 ft.) as the Pentagon is high (71 ft.)! But, as seen by direct inspection, the killer jet in the picture is not even as long as the height of the building, much less twice its height. Thus the matched-tail-size Boeing overlay shown above is scaled far too small for a real Boeing 757. An actual Boeing 757 in the same position as the killer jet in the picture would present a much bigger image. What Stanley and Russel have done is scale down a lion until its tail is the same size as a cat, resulting in a puss-sized lion. Thus even their overlay demonstrating that if the tail fin belonged to a Boeing 757 the plane's fuselage would have had to stick from behind the obstruction, understates the case because the tail fin shown is too small for a Boeing 757 given its location with respect to the Pentagon. Proof Two:

[Mr.Vicchio]

Huh?

Dude, guys, the wreckage photos are out there...

Its not too hard to find, but thats up to you to look at them and realize this is goofy as hell.

A boeing hit the Pentagon, it was highjacked by terrorist, and they wanted to cause mass chaos in America. If you think it was anything else... well.. no amount of common sense is gonna change your mind.

Tin Foil Hat Club has struck again.

[Osborn F Enready]

Vic, Sonart, nice insults and comments. Care for some debate, or objective links? Oh wait.... probably not... since you probably already labeled me as a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. That is ok, because an insult from a coincidence theorist is always a sign the truth is not far away.

I put this up to so what people thought about the content of the video, not to be a target for party-loyalist zealots, thanks.


Vic says: Dude, guys, the wreckage photos are out there...


I say: Are they, at least I provided you a link, you provided me a few slurs, insults and derogatory comments.

Sonart said: I was just wondering if you leave the Crack right there by the computer and smoke it as you go, or do you leave it out in the living room and take breaks?

I say: Could this be a way of saying.... " Sir, I believe your assumptions (presumed) are out of line with the common way of thinking, and what I accept as proof to the point of not even entertaining another possible explanation." ?


D E B A T E

[Rainbow]

Originally posted by Osborn F Enready, What do you think? (Please don't answer if you haven't watched the video.)

Speculations.

[PatrickHenry]

My comment: http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm

There are of course those who have fallen under the hypnotic spell of the TV talking-heads and "experts" whom they worship as authority figures. Unaccustomed to thinking for themselves, no amount of truth can sway them from their preconceived prejudices. They will even deny that which they see with their own eyes. They are victims of a psychological affliction known as "the lemming effect". Lemmings are small rodents who have been known to follow each other as they charge to their deaths into raging rivers or off of cliffs. Lemminghood is an innate psychological phenomenon, present in most mammals and observable in common people as well the most sophisticated and educated elites. Lemminghood is not an intellectual phenomenon - it is psychological. As such, no socio-economic class is immune to its strangulating effect. A grant- seeking university scientist can be a lemming just as much as a fashion obsessed teen-age girl. One blindly follows the latest trendy theory while the other blindly follows the latest trendy clothing style. What's the difference? Neither can resist the force of nature. The power to fit in with one's social peers can be irresistible. To a human lemming, the logic behind an opinion doesn't count as much as the power and popularity behind an opinion. Man, like lemming, behaves collectively. And it could be no other way. Naturally, the individual must be equipped with this trait. Otherwise, the smallest steps toward civilization could never have been made. Lemminghood is a survival trait, an inborn instinct in the majority of people. However, as with all natural phenomena, this tendency can be manipulated and used for harmful purposes. It is this lemming effect which enables entire segments of a society to lose their sense of judgment all at the same time. This research paper will likely be wasted on many lemmings. For lemmings, denial is a basic psychological defense mechanism used to not only shield themselves from unpleasant realities, but also to reassure themselves that they will still fit within the acceptable range of opinion held by their peer group. Lemmings are absolutely terrified at the thought of being labeled as an "extremist" or a "conspiracy theorist". At all costs, their beliefs must always be on the "right" side of the issue and conform within the boundaries of their lemming peers. Lemmings simply cannot bear the burden of responsibility, or the discomfort, which comes with thinking independently. They'll resist any efforts to change their misguided beliefs with all their mental energy. We can try to open their closed minds and free them from their self-imposed blindness, but it’s not easy fighting the force of human nature. The chains of ideological conformity have too strong of a grip, and breaking them is a difficult task. With the limited resources at our disposal, it is next to impossible to compete with the media lemming-masters. Nevertheless, some of us must make the meager attempt, and thus lay the foundation upon which the truth might one day rise again. There are those among us who do have the courage and intellectual capacity to break free of the shackles of lemminghood and accept the truth when it is presented in a clear and logical sequence.

[Osborn F Enready]

Quoting Pat Henry's post:

"There are those among us who do have the courage and intellectual capacity to break free of the shackles of lemminghood and accept the truth when it is presented in a clear and logical sequence."


Some days though, it seems as though the media has them all. Thanks Pat, for the reminder that there are people out there who still accept and understand logic, and use it with free will. I often wonder what color the sky looks through the elusive rose colored lenses that the coincidence theorists can't go without.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Ya know, there are linsk, and website, "experts" that can show you in great detail, we never landed on the moon.

They have detailed charts, scientific claims, pictures... the whole shabang. All saying "America never landed a man on the moon!"

Yet its absolute idiocy, we did land a number of men on the moon.

4 planes high jacked by muslim fanatics, 3 hit buildings, the WTC main towers, and the pentagon, one fell because the people on board tried to take the plane back.

To believe otherwise shows a lack of critical thinking. To pull off such a stunt, would require too many people in the know, too much risk.

Denial. It's not just a river in egypt.

BTW The best pics I have found are over at www.rense.com. I have posted them before, for roxdog, he refused to even look at them. Looking at such seems to shatter the foundation of such absurd ideas as no plane hit the Pentagon.

[Nono]

Gotta side with Vic here, though I'd be intrigued to hear something that made sense. What is the alternative explanation?

There are lots of excellent questions about 911 that have mysteriously gone unanswered (Saudi evacuation, etc.), thanks partly to supine and cowardly US media. And if it's true that all these films and whatnot have somehow been suppressed, that's a goddam scandal. But why must ALL elements of the official version necessarily be false?

This video whips by suspiciously fast: hardly the time to read the captions, let alone study the images. Hmm...

Pardon me if I'm a bit slow here, but what exactly makes it so unlikely that the damage to the Pentagon was caused by a 757 hitting it, or the lawn in front? If the aircraft that took off from Dulles shortly before was flown to some sinister desert location (or beamed to a waiting spaceship), what was the point?

A deft slash of Occam's Razor please.

[Sonart]

And so what happened to flight 93 that went down in Pennsylvania. Wow, look at the crash sight, there's NOTHING identifiable as an aircraft, just some dirt.

Whaddaya think? Alien abduction?