9/11=Inside Job

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Laurie I'm sorry Ken, but I obviously wasn't as clear as I could have been regarding my questioning of certain issues from others... Sonart said: "That while it supposedly took 5 years for al-Qaeda to attack us on 9-11, the administration -- assuming they started planning on the day they took office -- needed only nine months to plan and carry out the most galactically complicated plot in human history, a plot requiring the perfect timing and cooperation of hundreds, if not thousands, of soulless minions, not ONE of whom, in 8 years, would ever utter a word, either in drunken glibbness, attention seeking or crushing remorse, about their role, all carried out by an administration known first and foremost for their absolute incompetence, who can't keep hidden something so simple as to keep Scooter Libby out of jail, in a town where NO ONE can keep secrets from being leaked. With this in mind, we're to believe that squads of secret, silent minions snuck into not one, not two, but 3 of the World Trade Center towers - 1,2 and 7 - and without raising any suspicions, despite the buildings being occupied day and night by thousands of employees, managed to plant and conceal the tons of explosives needed to bring down some of the strongest structures ever build by man, all without anyone noticing, and all without anyone noticing ANYTHING unnusual the following morning." And, Whatssnew said, basically the same thing... "Requirements to pull of such an attack: 1. Manage to convince 10,000 people not to squeal. 2. Manage to get several tons of explosives and a hundred miles of wire into the building without anyone squawking. 3. Manage to install the several tons of explosives, and miles of wire required for a demolition. 4. Manage to convince thousands of people to risk death, and many to accept it without them squealing, leaving notes, informing the press, ex… 5. Manage to install all the wires and explosives in such a way that they would not be rendered useless by a jet liner full of fuel smashing through them. Ah hell with this, if Clinton couldn’t hide the little secret that he couldn’t keep his dick in his pants, how in the hell do you think this could have been pulled off??? The implication would be that a conspiracy of thousands of individuals from stock brokers to the President has been kept secret, and that they are all guilty of treason. Face it will ya, the same people who believe in this are the same people who claim to have been molested by aliens from Mars." And, what I was trying to say, is that despite my confusion regarding all the theories and story's that surround the events of 911; that these are very telling arguments inasmuch as that the hundreds, or even thousands of people that had to have had some knowledge of all this, have never come forward.

Thanks. That's pretty complete. I don't always get the time to read all the new posts. My fault.

Re: the short period of time. Some refer to The Project for a New American Century, and that one quote... the one about it might require some major event like America being attacked to make the changes the document signers wanted... has been pulled out of a vast document. Yes, Dick and other in the administration did sign it a while before they ascended with George, but you have to add a lot of plotting and such to take that one quote and turn it into a conspiracy. So plotting could have started before, if you accept that quote as "evidence." (I don't. More of a unintended prediction and "oops.") One could even claim how the election turned out was part of this vast plot. But... WOW. That's a lot of drug crazed gerbils to herd through the gate of time to get to that kind of conspiracy. You'd think at least one guy would snitch and we'd hear about it.

[Nono]

Or the PNAC fellas remembered that shit happens and were ready to capitalize on it when it did (see Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine).

Of course, Bush's "election" in 2000 and his "re-election" in 2004 are a whole other story.

Now there is a conspiracy.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Nono Or the PNAC fellas remembered that shit happens and were ready to capitalize on it when it did (see Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine). Of course, Bush's "election" in 2000 and his "re-election" in 2004 are a whole other story. Now there is a conspiracy.

This, of course, I believe is the most likely "conspiracy." They knew it was going to happen; not necessarily when. (Though I always found the choice of "9/11" rather "coincidental." Wouldn't mean much to bin Laden and Co., but it would to the PNAC crowd and Americans in general.) There is plenty of yack amongst former aides and others about how they ignored warnings. They just let it happen. Intentionally.

HOWEVER....

This goes to motive. Even if someone has a good reason to have that motive, it neither proves they had it, or acted upon it. Well, not acted. Well... syntax becomes a bit tough here.

Personally, do I think they had a damn good idea and did squat? Yes, I do. Intentionally? Actually, yes, though it could have just been their laser beam focus on a partisan agenda. The Bush crowd did think that some people were far too obsessed with this, previous to 9/11, at least according to many of the "tell all" books that always come out after some major event.

If I had to finger one person as a likely mastermind it would be Rove. He's damn good at what he does. I wouldn't be surprised if Cheney was co.

But we'll never know; not really.

Hell, the Dems won't even insist they testify under oath most of the time. God I hate voting for the Pussy party. We need run off voting.

( No offense to women intended. Different usage. Tried to think of an option as good, but couldn't. Ah, so many years away from college and old age combine into... SIGH.)

[Sonart]

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Quote by: Ken Carman (Though I always found the choice of "9/11" rather "coincidental." Wouldn't mean much to bin Laden and Co., but it would to the PNAC crowd and Americans in general.)

I've thought about that too... "Hello, 911 emergency...". However I don't think dialing 911 is that big a secret that al-Qaeda planners couldn't have stumbled across it and found it giddily ironic. Besides, if you're back to "the PNAC crowd" being aware of the significance, then you're back to their having planned it - in full or in part - which you've already conceded simply isn't possible.

As to their having known about it and 'let it happen', I have long conceded that this is something that I thought was at least plausible... that they caught wind of some sort of attack, maybe incompetently figured it was another bombing of some sort - that would fit the Bush League MO - with no idea how monstrous it would actually turn out to be, and spiked the information, figuring a few dozen casualties and angrily pointing a finger at Iraq would do the trick.

But once again, the reason I DON'T believe that remains the same; that after 8 years, and after the Bush League has left the office, NO ONE has breathed a word of it.

Nixon was involved in a simple "3rd rate burglary" and had leakers coming out of the walls, with Nixon fleeing office within 2 years. Reagan in a simply plot with Iran. And their teams were considerably more competent and capable of Bush's, ESPECIALLY when you consider that Bush had been in office for only 9 months.

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[Jack]

As to their having known about it and 'let it happen', I have long conceded that this is something that I thought was at least plausible... that they caught wind of some sort of attack, maybe incompetently figured it was another bombing of some sort - that would fit the Bush League MO - with no idea how monstrous it would actually turn out to be, and spiked the information, figuring a few dozen casualties and angrily pointing a finger at Iraq would do the trick. But once again, the reason I DON'T believe that remains the same; that after 8 years, and after the Bush League has left the office, NO ONE has breathed a word of it.

I think that's at least a possibility. Fewer people would be involved in flubbing the intelligence and they'd be people high up, Cheney, Rice, the heads of CIA and NSA. Very few would be privvy to the full intelligence brief put together before the attack, and they could conceivably be loyal to their own legacy and keep quiet about it.

That's not the most probable scenario, but it's far more likely than the idea that the White House planned and carried out 9/11 on their own.

[Cruella]

In most of the rest of the world, 9/11 would actually be written 11/9. 911 isn't a universal emergency services number, either. Sorry.

[Maryjane]

( No offense to women intended. Different usage. Tried to think of an option as good, but couldn't. Ah, so many years away from college and old age combine into... SIGH.)

You are going to have to try harder if you want to offend me

[Sonart]

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Quote by: CruellaDeChaCha In most of the rest of the world, 9/11 would actually be written 11/9. 911 isn't a universal emergency services number, either. Sorry.

Yes, I understand that. But anyone who'd had lived in the United States or studied it for any length of time would eventually stumble across it's significance to Americans, plus how Americans write the date, and could find it quite the hilarious ironic joke. After all, people often notice little things in other cultures that are done differently than in their own. I know I did when I've been abroad.

And it wouldn't necessarily have to be Osama or anyone around him that thought of it.

Ahmad - "So, when do you think we should go?"

Lieutenant - "Here's a crazy idea." (big grin) "We've figured that the optimal time for clear weather in that area would be in June or September. So Khalid showed me this... in America they have a special phone number for emergencies that everyone, every schoolchild, knows by heart." (writes 911) "And he says this is how an American would write September the 11th." (writes 911 again)

Ahmad - (Laughs) "My friend, you're thinking way too much like an American. I love it. I'll pass this on to Osama."

I'm not saying it happened, I'm just saying it's not implausible.

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[Cruella]

I'm saying it's pretty implausible. Sometimes, a coincidence is exactly that. I don't think terrorists are big on humour generally.

[Sonart]

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Quote by: CruellaDeChaCha I'm saying it's pretty implausible. Sometimes, a coincidence is exactly that. I don't think terrorists are big on humour generally.

That's fine. This isn't a particularly major point of debate for me, but I have always found it ironic.

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[Ken Carman]

I noticed there's a response I may not have gotten back to yet. For some reason I stop getting Es from responses after a while from V.

Anyway, I just did a cross post on this topic HERE.

[Ken Carman]

Oops!!!!

I forgot. The main reason I posted that last one was because of another on site article: HERE. I'm trying to figure out what the author's opinion actually is. Sarcasm? Actual conspiracy? What do you think?

[Patriot911]

Quote by: Ken Carman Oops!!!! I forgot. The main reason I posted that last one was because of another on site article: HERE. I'm trying to figure out what the author's opinion actually is. Sarcasm? Actual conspiracy? What do you think?

Sounds like the typical rantings of an extreme liberal truther coming up with yet another madcap theory: "Discredit Alex Jones and thus quell the truther movement". The fact he blames every Republican President without once mentioning the Democrat Presidents in there as well shows that his opinions are more of the irrational thoughts generated by political angst vs. the irrational thoughts generated by an anti-government agenda. After all.... if this is only a "Neo con" thing, why hasn't any Democrat President stepped forward and exposed all these nefarious schemes?

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Patriot911 Sounds like the typical rantings of an extreme liberal truther coming up with yet another madcap theory: "Discredit Alex Jones and thus quell the truther movement". The fact he blames every Republican President without once mentioning the Democrat Presidents in there as well shows that his opinions are more of the irrational thoughts generated by political angst vs. the irrational thoughts generated by an anti-government agenda. After all.... if this is only a "Neo con" thing, why hasn't any Democrat President stepped forward and exposed all these nefarious schemes?

Coming from... somewhat, the other side, let's just say that many of us consider our leadership to be filled with cowards: and I'm not specifically referring to this issue.

I know nada about Alex Jones.

[Patriot911]

Quote by: Ken Carman Coming from... somewhat, the other side, let's just say that many of us consider our leadership to be filled with cowards: and I'm not specifically referring to this issue. I know nada about Alex Jones.

Cowards? How could cowards risk their lives on a wild and crazy plan to kill 3,000 of their own people to justify a war? Sounds to me like they have balls King Kong would envy!

Alex Jones is the king conspiracy nut. He is the one who makes money off of the gullible and misguided. He lies through his teeth on a regular basis, but his followers swallow every drop as though it was gospel straight from the Holy Ghost. He has a radio show and several web sites including Infowars, prisonplanet, truthnews.us, jonesreport.com, and obamadeception.net. He also has about a dozen videos he likes to sell to those silly enough to believe what he is peddling.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Patriot911 Cowards? How could cowards risk their lives on a wild and crazy plan to kill 3,000 of their own people to justify a war? Sounds to me like they have balls King Kong would envy!

I have no idea what you mean unless you're referring to those who attacked on 9/11. On that, we would agree, except King Kong wasn't all that evil in his intent.

If you mean "liberals" plotted, planned and did 9/11 then that's about as whacked as the least sensible conspiracy theories you've been ranting about. As would be claiming Dick Cheney with a candlestick in his secret outhouse.

Alex Jones is the king conspiracy nut. He is the one who makes money off of the gullible and misguided. He lies through his teeth on a regular basis, but his followers swallow every drop as though it was gospel straight from the Holy Ghost. He has a radio show and several web sites including Infowars, prisonplanet, truthnews.us, jonesreport.com, and obamadeception.net. He also has about a dozen videos he likes to sell to those silly enough to believe what he is peddling.

Oh, yeah, I did hear him once when I was on tour. I picked up a skip station. For a while it was kind of, sort of interesting, then funny like listening to those who actually believe everything on X-Files was true, and when I finally decided the unintended satire wasn't funny anymore... I changed the station.

[MyApologies]

his show is not about aliens, ever

[Patriot911]

Quote by: Ken Carman I have no idea what you mean unless you're referring to those who attacked on 9/11. On that, we would agree, except King Kong wasn't all that evil in his intent. If you mean "liberals" plotted, planned and did 9/11 then that's about as whacked as the least sensible conspiracy theories you've been ranting about. As would be claiming Dick Cheney with a candlestick in his secret outhouse.

This was in direct response to your statment that many consider our leadership to be filled with cowards. Personally I agree with that statement. Our government is run more from polls than personal conviction. My statement was just a quick jab at those who believe our government was responsible for 9/11.

Quote by: Ken Carman Oh, yeah, I did hear him once when I was on tour. I picked up a skip station. For a while it was kind of, sort of interesting, then funny like listening to those who actually believe everything on X-Files was true, and when I finally decided the unintended satire wasn't funny anymore... I changed the station.

Yeah, it's laughable for a little bit and then it becomes annoying.

[Patriot911]

Quote by: MyApologies his show is not about aliens, ever

Looks like you didn't do your homework. Alex Jones is very disappointed in you.

The ALIEN Project: MUST LISTEN - Jordan Maxwell on Alex Jones Show!

Besides which..... you misunderstood Ken. He wasn't saying the show was about aliens. He was likening the show and the people who listen to the people who actually believe the show The X-Files is real. It is irrational.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: MyApologies his show is not about aliens, ever

I was referring more to conspiracy theories and gullibility, less aliens. So add, or subtract, that element at your leisure. The X-Files ref. may have been misleading.