Is Volconvo Bad?

[Apologist]

I love the occasional debate. I like that the moderators are highly involved.

Debating online is almost pointless. It's nearly impossible to persuade anyone on this site about anything. No matter how right or wrong you are. And that goes for EVERYBODY.

I like to think that all we are doing is sharpening our skills and our base for our worldview.

However, it seems people have so much hatred on here.

It's probably arrogant online chatter. Whether it's Americans are stupid, democrats and republicans are stupid, religious or atheists members are stupid, Europeans or Aussies are stupid or whatever.

This reflection goes to myself as well. After the 3rd infraction I received this week I wanted to do a little self reflection.

Face to face is really when it matters any way. I have friends that believe completely the opposite that I do. And I hope you have the same.

If we can't get along when our ideas differ than we should reconsider why we have breath.

[Diogenes]

It's nearly impossible to persuade anyone on this site about anything. No matter how right or wrong you are.

That is generally true regardless of what venue you are talking about.

Debating online is almost pointless.

For the most part it is for the reason stated above...but ...there's always the chance that someone might raise an issue, or put things in another way, add another twist to an old idea, that will shed a new light on a particular topic...

debates are not about winning people over to your side ( even though that's what most people do strive for ) but rather debates are to air ideas, concepts, that may lead to new or interesting conclusions...

if the only reason a person debates is to prove himself right or others wrong then yes, it would be a huge waste of time...

for them.

[triad]

I've changed my view on many topics because of certain members on this forum... it may have seemed like an 'arguement', but its really just a debate with passionate views. Thats when I am most interested in seeing what people have to say... when they are in 'argue' mode.

[Jinei]

I'd like to think online debate gives people the chance to show others how flawed their opponent's arguments are, regardless of whether they're right or wrong. Only very rarely, though, will we hear an admission to defeat. I admit I've only done so once or twice here.

[Thanatos]

Not all people who know they're wrong will say so.

You learn things. It will teach you how to prevent people from turning an argument into a debate over the meaning of words instead of facts, and how to research, and I learned to touchtype on online discussion boards just like this from the sheer volume of text I was producing. You learn the difference between North Ossetia and South Ossetia, and if nothing else you gain an appreciation of the depths of depravity and self delusion the human soul is capable of.

[Devil's Advocate]

You can't lose a debate because it's the internet. All the information you need to make a valid point is a click away. The best thing this site does is give you information on a variety of topics and that information will help you when a debate comes up outside the internet.

[gela]

Debating online is almost pointless. It's nearly impossible to persuade anyone on this site about anything. No matter how right or wrong you are. And that goes for EVERYBODY.

Equally, if not only slightly less pointless as watching movies, playing video games, or reading books.
Its just a source of entertainment. Anyone who thinks they are changing the world by being here are kidding themselves.

If we can't get along when our ideas differ than we should reconsider why we have breath.

I agree. These days I try to avoid being insulting as much as I can.
If my opponent makes things personal, or becomes unreasonable, I still try to avoid being outright insulting.. but sometimes I can't help myself.

[Potentenum]

If we keep on trying to make our points come across, this thread would be saturated with irony...

I think the "point" would not be to "win" a debate, seeing that it is quite impossible and given the virtual representation one is pretty much free to express whatever they want without fear of losing face, getting hurt and the like.

I see the point as getting to know other people (as cliche as this sounds ), seeing other people's points, testing your debating skills (at least, online debating skills, haha), and having fun (again with the cliche, but true).

[Tycoon]

Oh, it's not entirely pointless. When I came here I was Christian and didn't understand a single thing about politics. Now I'm atheist and one of the most political kids at my school.

[Apologist]

Quote by: Tycoon Oh, it's not entirely pointless. When I came here I was Christian and didn't understand a single thing about politics. Now I'm atheist and one of the most political kids at my school.

I hope you sought more structure to adopt atheism then simply listening to people on this website.

For my reaction has been quite the opposite.

[rez]

Quote by: Apologist However, it seems people have so much hatred on here.

I can only speak of what I have seen in the Philosophy forum from you.

Quote by: Apologist I have to concede to most atheists that Christians, and all who follow a religious icon of any sort, seem to be, well, absurd.

Do you understand how irritating it is when EVERY Christian shares this same viewpoint?

Do you know how many times I have heard this before?

I don't know what to say when every Christian I come in contact with thinks that every other Christian is absurd.


So in this case, the absurdity starts with you. Everything else is just a reaction. I get infractions and I always am able to understand why and don't feel mad or persecuted by it.

[Slevin57]

I recently started posting after being absent for nearly a year. I have noticed that things seem to be more motivated by opinion.

I am not very good at citing my sources but if I need to, I could. Sometimes I'm not sure everyone is in that same position..

[GHook93]

Quote by: Apologist I love the occasional debate. I like that the moderators are highly involved. Debating online is almost pointless. It's nearly impossible to persuade anyone on this site about anything. No matter how right or wrong you are. And that goes for EVERYBODY. I like to think that all we are doing is sharpening our skills and our base for our worldview. However, it seems people have so much hatred on here. It's probably arrogant online chatter. Whether it's Americans are stupid, democrats and republicans are stupid, religious or atheists members are stupid, Europeans or Aussies are stupid or whatever. This reflection goes to myself as well. After the 3rd infraction I received this week I wanted to do a little self reflection. Face to face is really when it matters any way. I have friends that believe completely the opposite that I do. And I hope you have the same. If we can't get along when our ideas differ than we should reconsider why we have breath.

I disagree. More people read each post, then those who also respond. I guarantee if you make sense some people will be convinced. And the point (at least for me) is not to sway someone, rather its to debate and get your point out (and also kill time between sales calls and case loads). Besides what fun would it be if everyone you debated with agreed with you. The discussion would end right there. I am glad many of the liberals like Sonart, Thantos, Barts and Jose are around, because debating with people who are a right-winged facist like myself that agree with me wouldn't be that much fun.

Note: trying to sway people in real life isn't that much easier either. Sh1t I can't even convince my wife that Obama is a taxa-spendaholoic!

Also note: the moderators are pretty fair, but strict. They give us all the same treatment and slap our wrists the same. Trust me is much better having strict moderation, than relax moderation where people are free to a$$holes. I at one point had a problem with the infraction also. When an ignorant person says something that you strongly disagree fight the temptation to personally attack him/her. It makes for a better debate and better forum. I know it gets tough at times. Its especially tough for me when I am faced with extreme anti-semitism, holocaust denial or 9/11 conspiracies!

[GSM:Xtreme]

Quote by: Tycoon Oh, it's not entirely pointless. When I came here I was Christian and didn't understand a single thing about politics. Now I'm atheist and one of the most political kids at my school.

I was already on my way to atheism, but yeah same story here. Isn't it fun burning kids in your class/impressing your teacher with your extensive political knowledge

Anyway, volconvo is very entertaining, and is definatly helping me with presenting resonable and comprehensive arguments.

[Tycoon]

I hope you sought more structure to adopt atheism then simply listening to people on this website.

Of course I did.

I was already on my way to atheism, but yeah same story here. Isn't it fun burning kids in your class/impressing your teacher with your extensive political knowledge

Yeah, it's a lot of fun, lol.

[ironeagle]

You have to remember that we never know when something we have said will sink in or effect another. Sometimes right away sometimes years. It is hard to change one's views or opinions, they are what form our personalities. It isn't always important to agree or change another person's mind it can also be a way to come to a medium, to discuss solutions. These types of communications, online forums and chat rooms are very new in the grand scheme of our time hear on earth. It has given many people the ability to communicate about topics, in a way we never had before to reach each other. I think honeslty we are all a bit adolescent in this new communication game. We are all pointing fingers at each other, stereotyping each other's countries, governments, and religions, but it is the begining of developing relationshipd with each other. Kind of like the first few sessions of counseling between fueding couples. I know people will not klike it but there is a high volume of young teens on here, and I do not dismiss their ideas, but i do think many are very young and idealistic, and do not always see the big picture of what certain laws, lack of laws, and choices can doto a whole country or the world. As a teen I though why do I need rules, blah blah, as a oyung adult I though why do we need laws, blah blah. I think sometimes it's a matter of maturity differences.

[Capitalist Pig]

Debate has never been about convincing your opponent. It's been about convincing the public, or your "audience".

[Dadoo]

Volconvo is like spice; use in moderation, or like a vice.
All debate is pointless, esp. massdebating. I prefer pure social
intercourse.
However, this site, with all the many faces is an invaluable type of
tool to recalibrate and reestimate our own POV's.
Not bad, so many negative attitudes, lest we have nothing to measure our optimism against. Pangloss was so optimistic, he was ridiculous.
Both sides need the other for restraint, validation and normalization.
Indeed we head closer to the middle in this fashion, and find we are more alike even as we "argue".

[Kate2008]

Back in the day, I was an active participant on the message boards, here, and in two other spots ... sort of at different times, but the activity was constant for several years. One of the characteristics of the boards during those years was very light moderation, if any. I prided myself on not needing any, but I kind of think some of the things I said to negotiate a discussion climate that was comfortable to me might have gotten me warnings in a more involved moderator scenario. In an ambiguous situation, directness and some type of citizen aggressiveness happens, but it's more about negotiation of the informal ability to assert a world view that leads to it than no-holds-barred aggression.

During that "wild west" time, I honed my writing and my negotiation skills and, really, my ability to move the flow of the discussion to angles that made sense to me. With heavier moderation, those roles shift to the moderators, and my stimulation to participate in the discussion is lessened. In three-D, a similar switch happened in a group I've been involved in for some time. In the three-D group, and in the past couple of years, we got a couple of paid participants who are doing a great job of doing what they do, but with their more official involvement, the collaborative dynamic that existed before they became employed has dissipated.

I'm not sure if it's good or bad, but it's definitely different, and my strengths as negotiator of an ambiguous situation aren't much needed in more structured top-down contexts. lol.

I think it's hard to moderate "in moderation" and the really great moderators are able to do that, or were able to do that, before ... the mind caverns of the internet started to harden up and get colonized and whatever else it is that happens when people come together to form groups.

[Diogenes]

Is Volconvo Bad?

Yes....you all need a good spanking....rotten undisciplined members running around spouting off indecipherable mumble-jumble...

now where did I put that wooden spank stick?