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Thread: How To Stop Illegal Immigration

  1. #13
    Resigned Matt W's Avatar
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    If you're stating 'facts', ironeagle, it's up to you to prove it. Show your sources.
    I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.

    -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

  2. #14
    Igneous Magma
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    Should it be illegal for someone to move from Chicago to Minneapolis?

    Should it be illegal for someone to move from Chicago to Toronto?

    Why?

  3. #15
    Esquire Dan_77's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Matt W View Post
    If you're stating 'facts', ironeagle, it's up to you to prove it. Show your sources.

    X2

    This thread, like most "immigration" threads, is based on nothing but racism and ignorance. There are no facts to assert that immigrants do anything even close to costing the country more than they contribute.

    The most ignorant and stupid position is one of hypocrisy - as in, "my ancestors entered the country without having to go through onerous and draconian immigration laws, but immigrants now should have to do that". Why? Because they're brown.
    "But it wasn't until he met his beautiful wife that he learned using logic and reason isn't enough. You have to be a dick to everyone who doesn't think like you." - South Park on Richard Dawkins

  4. #16
    Ncp Rights Activist ironeagle's Avatar
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    Wrong, I happen to like legal Latino immigrants. You know why? Because they worked hard to get here, came in honestly and followed the law, they use their own true identities to go to work , pay taxes, get the same protections under the law as I do, buy products, most like to learn the language and are respectful to the rest of us. It isn't about wether it should or should not be illegal to move from one place to another, it is about the fact that it IS illegal to enter our country the wrong way, and it's about the fact we need to have control over the population to some degree, and take care first, of our citizens and let in others when we can support their numbers better. A person from Mexico or Canada or where ever should not have the right to be free from arrest when they break the law, just because they didn't like living in the country they came from. MattW do you want me to go back to DHS and take a picture of the sign?
    Saving the empovershed by empoverishing their counterparts will empoverish the whole.

  5. #17
    Never mad Winter wind's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: ironeagle
    In fact I went into to dhs to get information on assistance for medical for my self since I am pregnant and my insurance doesn't start for two more months, and on the wall was a big notice in giant letters saying they won't turn anyone into to immigration for applying for assistance.
    That sounds like an extension of doctor-patient confidentiality. I could be wrong, but US law makes all such conversations impermissible in court. (Though I don't know what kind of medical advise you're talking about...)

    Right or wrong, at least the dhs isn't hiding the truth.

    Additionally certain states and cities have been granting illegal aliens drivers licenses.
    But you do need a ton of id for that (at least in New York). Usually your birth certificate or passport, or something.

    The rubber bullet was meant to replace live bullets, because the border patrol officers are being convicted of crimes for doing their jobs, when a drug dealer illegal immigrant runs from arrest.
    Rubber bullets seem more apt for riot control. Tazers would be the weapon of choice for a fleeing suspect, no?

    Ah, but I don't know much about this area anyway.

    Admittedly keeping them jailed is somewhat counter to wanting them to leave, however it is a proven fact most illegals have been sent back and reentered over 10 times. Repeatedly reoffending, it is high time they labor in a prison and pay for their stay here.
    What use is it to put them in prison? What's the practical application? In the mean time, they get free health care, free food, shelter, and all on who's dime? What's the current rate of illegal immigrants? Multiply that by all those costs. Multiply that by all the time they will spend, and you're talking about an obscene amount of money and for what?

    No, it would be better to build another Great Wall of China than pay for all the illegal immigrants.

    If you want practical, I have some alternative ideas than what I wrote above, shoot to kill upon illegally entering
    This would bring the ire of the entire international community. The United States would suffer a political crisis that would make Tianamen look like a Barbra Walter special.

    Not to mention the fact that it is moral wrong on a degree which is beyond belief.

    build a wall just like the wall of china and put the army on patrol.
    248,000 American troops led the war in Iraq.

    As stated in a previous post, about the same number of troops would be needed to give the wall the meanest protection. Meaning if several of the illegal immigrants had a gun and charged one 50yd area at once, they would probably kill the guards and get through without trouble.

    Can you imagine a troop movement that would surmount the troop movement in the Iraq war? By the way, the Regular Army has around 531,000 troops. Over half would be dedicated to this...and it still wouldn't be enough.

    How will you fix this?

    however I don't think that entitles them to break our laws, reduce our country to their low standards of living, nor do I think we are responsible to house them all our make it better for them. Not when it means letting them break the law without any responsibility for the punishment, not when it means tax payers have to pay for illegals to eat, and shop at our stores, and not when it means drug running increases, overpopulation
    Some statements above are exaggerated, but it isn't totally unfair. I just need to know where the manpower is coming from.

    changing the local restaurant menu to Spanish
    ...And the walls came tumbling down...
    Last edited by Winter wind; 21st August 2008 at 09:53 AM.
    Lester: Boy, you need something else outside of this.
    McNulty: Like what?
    Lester: A life, Jimmy. You know what that is? It's the stuff that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come.

  6. #18
    dog lover Marilyn Monroe's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: ironeagle View Post
    Here's my opinion on it.
    1. Absolutley no bleeding heart pitty, and no amnesty for violating the law. I think as a felony it should hold a minimum of a ten year sentence. I believe that would encourage imigrants not to cross the border in the first place.
    You're still keeping them here with this proposal which is too harsh, and inhumane. Read about this woman;

    Use of shackles upsets lawyer : State and Regional News : Knoxville News Sentinel

    2. Deport the aliens back to their original countries after their sentence has been served and if possible implement a treaty with Mexico to help each other secure the borders. A small financial incentive oughta do the trick, or the US government could just bill the Mexican government for each and every convict and deportee.
    This doesn't sound like it could be implemented.

    3. When an illegal alien is caught and they have children born in the U.S the government should make the children wards of the state in which they are found, perminently. After all they are American citizens in that case and belong here, their parents will soon discover it is not ok to be a criminal who has broken into a country they don't belong in
    Too harsh. This isn't the Dark Ages.

    4. If a child is not born here, then they should be sent back to a relative or become wards of the government they came from for their people to support and pay out taxes for, instead of us paying for these criminals children.
    This sounds ok to me.

    5. Rubber bullet any illegal who crosses the border illegally if necisary to stop them, automaticaly arrest them, and try them.
    No trial, just deport them back.

    6. Pass (AND ENFORCE)federal laws making it a felony to knowingly hire an illegal immigrant , aid and abet an illegal imigrant, give refuge to an illegal immigrant, allow an illegal immigrant housing, allow an illegal immigrant to obtain a bank account, allow an illegal imigrant puplic assistance in any form, to grant amnesty to or give an id or drivers license to an illegal immigrant, and to allow an illegal immigrant to attend public or private schools of any kind.
    What's with all the felonies? You want to make everybody a criminal. This is too harsh IMHO.

    7. I also think that although all people should have the right to a lawyer I think the government from which the imigrant came should pay that fee if the person cannot afford one themselves, because the only reason a person who is a legal citizen is granted one, is because they pay taxes, and when an illegal does not pay taxes or steals an identity to get paid and pays taxes in that way, the taxes are paid in the name in which they stole not their own and therefore are not entitled to any tax money for their representation.
    This would be ok, but I see no need to try them, just deport them, and keep a record of them and their deportation.

    8. The only rights they should be afforded are the basic needs until they are deported, which are shelter, food, and clothing. In addition they should recieve medical care only when needed and should be billed for the money spent on them just as criminals in American prisons are billed. These criminals should get no different or preferential treatment.
    Don't feel they should be put in jail with hardened criminals unless thery have committed a crime. This is too harsh, again, IMHO. They should have deportation centers like homeless shelters that provide basic necessities.

    9. Increased support and finance of border patrol and NIS. Increased special units placed in all states and in as many counties as pracricle to find and catch illegal immigrants, and more raids in factories, seasonal jobs, including farms and other immigrant magnet jobs. Additional it would help if Americans who casually hire gardners, handy men, and the like started asking for Id first. if the cost is really low they are probably working under the table or ille
    Increased security is a necessary element, but the of hiring friends and relatives isn't going to happen. Not likely.

    10. People need to stop feeling sorry for people who violate the law, the less bleeding heart sympathy they get, and the less moral support they get, the less legislative and government support they get , which is what is needed to curtail their presence here.
    This has some elements of truth to it for me, but I don't know how you can stop something that has already been started. It would have been easier if a tougher attitude had been started long, long ago. We are paying for our own mistakes at this point.
    "My one regret in life is that I'm not somebody else." - Woody Allen

  7. #19
    Resigned Matt W's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: ironeagle View Post
    Wrong, I happen to like legal Latino immigrants. You know why? Because they worked hard to get here, came in honestly and followed the law, they use their own true identities to go to work , pay taxes, get the same protections under the law as I do, buy products, most like to learn the language and are respectful to the rest of us. It isn't about wether it should or should not be illegal to move from one place to another, it is about the fact that it IS illegal to enter our country the wrong way, and it's about the fact we need to have control over the population to some degree, and take care first, of our citizens and let in others when we can support their numbers better. A person from Mexico or Canada or where ever should not have the right to be free from arrest when they break the law, just because they didn't like living in the country they came from. MattW do you want me to go back to DHS and take a picture of the sign?
    No, I suggest you go onto their website and find the facts to back up your claims. It isn't up to other posters to find this, and expecting people to take your word for it is somewhat naive.
    I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.

    -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

  8. #20
    Volcanic Erupter
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    Quote Quote by: tivodan1116 View Post
    X2

    This thread, like most "immigration" threads, is based on nothing but racism and ignorance. There are no facts to assert that immigrants do anything even close to costing the country more than they contribute.

    The most ignorant and stupid position is one of hypocrisy - as in, "my ancestors entered the country without having to go through onerous and draconian immigration laws, but immigrants now should have to do that". Why? Because they're brown.
    The hypocrisy is all yours. In your second sentence you make the point about the costs of illegal immigration. In your last, you play the race card. It's you that makes the attempt to tie opposition to illegal immigration to color.

    As for "There are no facts to assert that immigrants do anything even close to costing the country more than they contribute", that's pure unadulterated garbage, as I suspect you know and try to ignore. A simple Google will bring up innumerable links to documented costs that illegal immigrants impose on citizen-taxpayers. We've been through this subject many times in many threads. I'm not even going to bother posting any links, having done so so often in past threads with RMNunez.
    I upped my income, up yours.

  9. #21
    Ncp Rights Activist ironeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Quote by: Winter wind View Post
    That sounds like an extension of doctor-patient confidentiality. I could be wrong, but US law makes all such conversations impermissible in court. (Though I don't know what kind of medical advise you're talking about...)

    Right or wrong, at least the dhs isn't hiding the truth.



    But you do need a ton of id for that (at least in New York). Usually your birth certificate or passport, or something.



    Rubber bullets seem more apt for riot control. Tazers would be the weapon of choice for a fleeing suspect, no?

    Ah, but I don't know much about this area anyway.



    What use is it to put them in prison? What's the practical application? In the mean time, they get free health care, free food, shelter, and all on who's dime? What's the current rate of illegal immigrants? Multiply that by all those costs. Multiply that by all the time they will spend, and you're talking about an obscene amount of money and for what?

    No, it would be better to build another Great Wall of China than pay for all the illegal immigrants.



    This would bring the ire of the entire international community. The United States would suffer a political crisis that would make Tianamen look like a Barbra Walter special.

    Not to mention the fact that it is moral wrong on a degree which is beyond belief.



    248,000 American troops led the war in Iraq.

    As stated in a previous post, about the same number of troops would be needed to give the wall the meanest protection. Meaning if several of the illegal immigrants had a gun and charged one 50yd area at once, they would probably kill the guards and get through without trouble.

    Can you imagine a troop movement that would surmount the troop movement in the Iraq war? By the way, the Regular Army has around 531,000 troops. Over half would be dedicated to this...and it still wouldn't be enough.

    How will you fix this?



    Some statements above are exaggerated, but it isn't totally unfair. I just need to know where the manpower is coming from.



    ...And the walls came tumbling down...
    Ok you aren't understanding at all. There is no exaggeration of their criminal behavior it's apparent and obvious. I also said the prisoners should have to pay for their jail time just like American prisoners, that may mean working in the laundry or some other program to pay their bill or forcing the Mexican government to pay fines for each citizen we have to put in prison because they can't get control of their own citizens. No a tazer won't work from a distance, not while a person is running. Also D.H.S does not have priveledged information between themselves and people who sign up for assistence programs, even doctors have to turn patients in if they break the law or are a danger, ie an illegal imigrant who has committed a felony, would normally be turned in for criminal activity, yet our state has decided to let them come here, and eat our food for free just because they are illegal criminals, yet they Id our citizens for food. Shame on us.
    Saving the empovershed by empoverishing their counterparts will empoverish the whole.

  10. #22
    Ncp Rights Activist ironeagle's Avatar
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    Also for those who do not wish to look up the subjects themselves, that's their problem I have no intention of wasting my time collecting links for people who do not want to read the truth anyway, as the last poster stated these links have already been given several times, the readers choose not to pay any attention to them.
    Saving the empovershed by empoverishing their counterparts will empoverish the whole.

  11. #23
    Resigned Matt W's Avatar
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    When acts for facts, you should substantiate them. I suggest you do so in future.
    I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.

    -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

  12. #24
    Labour Party Homeboy LtMisha's Avatar
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    Weclome them?

    I'd personally lock the borders for unskilled labourers, and shoot any that try to get in otherwise.

    Or, if you like humans (as I do) perhaps the unskilled ones that do try to come in could be placed in training camps to train them to be lawyers, electricians, metalurgists, or doctors. Whatever, but most importantly, to be able to speak English. This would be done at Tescos and McDonald's expence, that is to say, if they wish to stay in Britain.


    You must obey the law, always, not only when they grab you by your special place.
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