16 yr old boy n 13 girl old, sick? =S

[Simonius]

Quote by: BorisTheFerret And you'd still be saying that if the guy was 36?.

I'd still be saying what? Your response makes little sense.

Quote by: BorisTheFerret Rubbish. He'd be rightly regarded as a paedophile

In the eyes of the law, biologically and psychologically he would acting quite normally.

Quote by: BorisTheFerret Thirteen years old is well below the age of consent, and it's well below the age of consent for a reason. Thirteen year olds shouldn't be having sex, end of.

People probably shouldn't be having sex before marriage, but that does not make it 'sick'. The age of consent is an arbritary legal line, based on what we deem civilised, not on nature.

[BorisTheFerret]

Quote by: Simonius I'd still be saying what? Your response makes little sense. In the eyes of the law, biologically and psychologically he would acting quite normally. People probably shouldn't be having sex before marriage, but that does not make it 'sick'. The age of consent is an arbritary legal line, based on what we deem civilised, not on nature.

Well paedophilia has been considered civilised at various times, and in various places, throughout history. Look at the Spartans - they turned pederasty into a national institution! The same goes for incest, if you look at the royal families and aristocracies of ancient Egypt, Rome, and medieval Europe. Hell, even Queen Victoria married her cousin. Then there's polygamy, which has been practised all over the world at various times, and is still practised in the Middle East (and of course Utah...). Yet I don't see anyone arguing in favour of child-grooming, sister-shagging or bigamy. Do you?

The fact is that, though the age of consent laws are arbitrary, they were introduced in recognition of a widespread consensus that sex involving children and young teenagers was morally reprehensible, just as is sex involving two relatives, or husbands having numerous wives. And it's that consensus of what is morally reprehensible which I agree with, and utilise, when I deem sex with a thirteen year old 'sick'.

Whether or not it's 'natural' for a thirteen year old to be having sex is irrelevant; it's perfectly 'natural' for me to bang my next door neighbour's head open with a sharp rock and feast on the juicy grey organ stored inside, as our early human ancestors doubtless resorted to cannibalism at times. While at his house I may as well abduct his wife, and bring her back to my house for the purposes of procreation. Nevertheless we regard both cannibalism and rape as sick, and most of us also consider it sick to have sex with a thirteen year old.

[Simonius]

Quote by: BorisTheFerret Well paedophilia has been considered civilised at various times, and in various places, throughout history. Look at the Spartans - they turned pederasty into a national institution!.

Actually I can't think of a single culture that considered sex with underage children as the height of civilised behaviour.

Quote by: BorisTheFerret The same goes for incest, if you look at the royal families and aristocracies of ancient Egypt, Rome, and medieval Europe. Hell, even Queen Victoria married her cousin..

Which is not incest and is still legal now in most countries.

Quote by: BorisTheFerret Then there's polygamy, which has been practised all over the world at various times, and is still practised in the Middle East (and of course Utah...). The fact is that, though the age of consent laws are arbitrary, they were introduced in recognition of a widespread consensus that sex involving children and young teenagers was morally reprehensible, just as is sex involving two relatives, or husbands having numerous wives. And it's that consensus of what is morally reprehensible which I agree with, and utilise, when I deem sex with a thirteen year old 'sick'. Whether or not it's 'natural' for a thirteen year old to be having sex is irrelevant; it's perfectly 'natural' for me to bang my next door neighbour's head open with a sharp rock and feast on the juicy grey organ stored inside, as our early human ancestors doubtless resorted to cannibalism at times. While at his house I may as well abduct his wife, and bring her back to my house for the purposes of procreation. Nevertheless we regard both cannibalism and rape as sick, and most of us also consider it sick to have sex with a thirteen year old.

It may be wrong and inapropriate, but you can hardly term it a sickness... that would suggest that attraction to a teenage girl is the result of some sort of dysfunction or malfunction when it is the norm.

[BorisTheFerret]

Quote by: Simonius Actually I can't think of a single culture that considered sex with underage children as the height of civilised behaviour.

But I just gave you one! Sparta!

Quote by: Simonius Which is not incest and is still legal now in most countries.

What about the Egyptian pharoahs? They often married their siblings.

Quote by: Simonius It may be wrong and inapropriate, but you can hardly term it a sickness... that would suggest that attraction to a teenage girl is the result of some sort of dysfunction or malfunction when it is the norm.

SEXUAL attraction, when acted upon and directed towards a THIRTEEN year old girl, IS sick. Society has deemed it sick, that's why the age of consent is sixteen and not thirteen. End of.

[Walrus]

I think our society has deemed it inappropriate and illegal rather than sick. Not all societies follow our legislation, in the UK it is 16 apart from Northern Ireland where it is 17, in the US it is 18 (although I think it varies in some states), in Spain it is 13, in Germany it is 14 and in France it is 15.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: BorisTheFerret SEXUAL attraction, when acted upon and directed towards a THIRTEEN year old girl, IS sick. Society has deemed it sick, that's why the age of consent is sixteen and not thirteen. End of.

So, I guess it's sick for a boy that is exactly 14 years old to be attracted to a girl that's 13 years, 11 months and 29 days old? Is that what you're suggesting?

[Derek Wolff]

I know a girl who is 13 and dated a 17 year old. It was a hellish relationship, and now she is pregnet. Her life is gonna be rough for the next couple of decades. My advice, she is not mature enough, and she doesn't need a boyfriend at her age. I hope you are mature enough to say no.

What about the Egyptian pharoahs? They often married their siblings.

We are not talking about egyptian pharoahs. We are talking about right here, in our society, it will be difficult to have a relationship between them to say the least. I don't think people should date until 16 at least. It save a lot of trouble for just about everyone.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Derek Wolff I know a girl who is 13 and dated a 17 year old. It was a hellish relationship, and now she is pregnet. Her life is gonna be rough for the next couple of decades. My advice, she is not mature enough, and she doesn't need a boyfriend at her age. I hope you are mature enough to say no.

Are you addressing this to anyone in particular?

We are not talking about egyptian pharoahs. We are talking about right here, in our society, it will be difficult to have a relationship between them to say the least.

So, let's bring it closer to home (for us Americans anyway): Appalachia.

I don't think people should date until 16 at least. It save a lot of trouble for just about everyone.

If it were up to me, they'd have to wait until they're 18 and, even then, they'd be chaperoned.

[Morality Games]

Other countries (Japan (13), Germany (14) and France (15) for example) have fairly low ages of consent, and they seem to do alright.

But I just gave you one! Sparta!

Maybe sort of, although Athens would be a better example of institutionalized pedestary. I think Spartans were mostly just "gay", and mostly informally, although I can't speak from certainty.

[Walrus]

The problem with prohibition and abstinence based teaching is that it promotes the idea that sex is wrong or dirty. Young people need accurate information on sex and its risks and dangers, they need to be able to discuss their personal relationships and receive non judgmental council. Above all, young people need to know that their sexuality is natural and that their feelings are completely normal. They should be comfortable with their sexual identity, their feelings and their needs. Finally young people should be taught that whilst there is nothing wrong with having sex, there is also nothing wrong with not having it.

[gela]

But I just gave you one! Sparta!

Hmm.. I think you are thinking of where the term 'fag' came from.
Boarding schools, that were modelled off the sparta system.

If I remember correctly, in the boarding schools they gave seniors a junior to do errands for them. The junior was called a 'fag'. Stuff tended to happen.. after all, the seniors were sexually repressed, it was an all boys school... so the word was given a new meaning.

The only similarity is that seniors were put in charge of the younger groups in the sparta training coarse.. I don't think there was any institutionalised pedophilia.. only institutionalised homosexuality.

I'm only vaguely remembering what I studied about two years ago, so if I'm wrong, your welcome to prove me so.

[Nono]

Online Etymology Dictionary

Faggot: male homosexual," 1914, Amer.Eng. slang (shortened form fag is from 1921), probably from earlier contemptuous term for "woman" (1591), especially an old and unpleasant one, in reference to faggot "bundle of sticks," as something awkward that has to be carried (cf. baggage). It was used in this sense in 20c. by D.H. Lawrence and James Joyce, among others. It may also be reinforced by Yiddish faygele "homosexual," lit. "little bird." It also may have roots in Brit. public school slang fag "a junior who does certain duties for a senior" (1785), with suggestions of "catamite," from fag (v.). This was also used as a verb.

[Simonius]

Quote by: BorisTheFerret But I just gave you one! Sparta! .

I've never seen any evidence for that sorry, sex with young men, pre-pubsecent boys... no.

Quote by: BorisTheFerret What about the Egyptian pharoahs? They often married their siblings.

Yes they did, but as they have not been around for over two thousand years I can't really see that as proof of legal incest in the modern age!

Quote by: BorisTheFerret SEXUAL attraction, when acted upon and directed towards a THIRTEEN year old girl, IS sick.

I refer you to my previous answer, its just acting on urges that are shared by 90% of the male population. Wrong perhaps, terrible, awful, evil whatever adjective you want... but not sick, sick suggests to me some malfunction, something against nature. Sex with a young teenager is natural, I am not arguing its right.

Quote by: BorisTheFerret Society has deemed it sick, that's why the age of consent is sixteen and not thirteen. End of.

But this time next century the age of consent could be 30, or 7 or 37!

[RealRockingham]

Meh, my parents have an age difference of 15. Go ahead

[Barnicals]

Quote by: Thanatos You just committed 2nd degree statutory rape if you live in Alabama and are eligible for 2 to 20 years in prison. You also just posted a confession in a public forum.

He didn't say he had sex with her.

But no, it's not right. If there's an emotive aspect to it and you're willing to wait till she's legal before you have sex with her, no problem. If I was in your shoes, I'd stay away from temptation myself.

[Barnicals]

Quote by: Chancellor Since 16 year-old boys are about as mature as 13 year-old girls, I don't see the problem. If it's okay for a 17 year-old boy to date a 14 year-old girl or a 25 year-old man to date a 22 year-old woman, why not a 16 year-old boy and a 13 year-old girl? Now, if we were discussing a 50 year-old man and a 20 year-old girl (or Bill Clinton doing it with a woman young enough to be his daughter), well, that's just sick!

Firstly, the physical changes associated swith adolescence makes it unacceptable, by wider society at least. And the laws make sex with her illegal, or not, depending on what country he's in.

However, a 50 year old man desiring a 20 year old woman, I see no problem with. I sure hope I'm finding 20 year olds attractive at 50!! Just because you grow older, doesn't make you instinctivly find older women more capable of bearing children... Because they aren't.

[Barnicals]

Quote by: BorisTheFerret Then, soon enough, you'd end up with a thirteen year old boy and a ten year old girl having sex. Then what do you do? Where do you draw the line?

That's already reasonably commonplace in a few countries. If I remember correctly, the youngest human to give birth to a child is 5 years old.

I think we should just settle with, dude, that's not cool, don't do it again. And remember that at that age, breaking rules is SO much more appealing, and it will continue to happen as long as the rules exist.

[SoylentGreen]

Quote by: Morality Games Maybe sort of, although Athens would be a better example of institutionalized pedestary. I think Spartans were mostly just "gay", and mostly informally, although I can't speak from certainty.

Sparta highly valued virginity in there women, gave the father a better selling price. So they encouraged homosexuality among there boys as a way of ensuring they get sexual release without getting their head chopped off by an irate father who just had his daughter go from valuable virgin to worthless slut.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Barnicals Firstly, the physical changes associated swith adolescence makes it unacceptable, by wider society at least. And the laws make sex with her illegal, or not, depending on what country he's in.

Both 13 and 16 are considered adolescence and 16 year-old boys are about as emotionally mature as 13 year-old girls: so, what the hell's the difference?

However, a 50 year old man desiring a 20 year old woman, I see no problem with.

Sick pervert! You are disgusting! The woman is young enough to be his daughter. That's almost like supporting pedophilia.

I sure hope I'm finding 20 year olds attractive at 50!!

Sick pervert!

Just because you grow older, doesn't make you instinctivly find older women more capable of bearing children... Because they aren't.

No, but there are other considerations. Almost all 13 year-old girls are capable of bearing children but we in American society consider it sick and perverted for a 50 year-old man (or even a 20 year-old man) to try to impregnate one of them.

[Rog]

I would keep dating here, what is the problem?