Are stereotypes really missleading?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Flip Jackson I never claimed to be king of the thread. My only claim was that many who have replied do not understand psycology well.

Well, what don't I understand? I'm a college graduate who took psychology for a few semesters (including abnormal psychology).

Grandpa h.

[Flip Jackson]

Quote by: grandpa In many instances, I'd even sompare it to a dangerous form of mental illness. Grandpa h.

I mean no offense to your college studies. However, I doubt you can find any support for comments such as this one. This is a pretty strong comment based on a rather simplistic definition of stereotyping. Perhaps you wrote without thinking, but these sorts of remarks do not reveal psycological understanding.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Flip Jackson I mean no offense to your college studies. However, I doubt you can find any support for comments such as this one.

I think it's easy to compare strong stereotypes to a mental illness. I wouldn't consider Nazi anti-semitism to be particularly sane, for example.

Grandpa h.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: grandpa I think it's easy to compare strong stereotypes to a mental illness. I wouldn't consider Nazi anti-semitism to be particularly sane, for example. Grandpa h.

But, as Flip tried to explain, Nazi anti-semitism moved beyond stereotyping and into prejudice. That would be akin to comparing a normal healthy concern for clean hands (stereotyping) into the damaging, unhealthy need to wash your hands 57 times clockwise and 58 times counterclockwise before washing your face, before getting into the shower (prejudice).

[grandpa]

Quote by: lsbskins1 But, as Flip tried to explain, Nazi anti-semitism moved beyond stereotyping and into prejudice. That would be akin to comparing a normal healthy concern for clean hands (stereotyping) into the damaging, unhealthy need to wash your hands 57 times clockwise and 58 times counterclockwise before washing your face, before getting into the shower (prejudice).

So stereotypes aren't a part of prejudice, and prejudice is not very common? That's all news to me.

I thought that if you get rid of most social steretypes, you do away with
prejudice.

Grandpa h.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: grandpa I thought that if you get rid of most social steretypes, you do away with prejudice.

Maybe. Stereotypes are accurate to a certain point. IE Chinese people have a strong history of fidelity to country, family, etc...therefore it is more likely for a Chinese person to do what someone in a higher position tells them to do then an American.

However, there are two problems with this. There are always exceptions and typically lots of them. And even when the stereotype is true, it normally is only the coat of varnish on the person. like the example from above, the person maybe secretly planning to overthrow the superior person or something.

[Chancellor]

Every stereotype has its basis in fact.

[Winter wind]

Every stereotype has its basis in fact.

No no. Most stereotypes have a basis in facts. Teachers liking apples has zero basis in fact.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Winter wind Stereotypes are accurate to a certain point.

Sometimes, yes -- depending on the stereotype.

Interestingly, by being white I am rarely a recipient
of the harsh media stereotypes that other groups have. So I wonder just how much input I can or should give on this matter.

Grandpa h.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Winter wind No no. Most stereotypes have a basis in facts. Teachers liking apples has zero basis in fact.

While I'm familiar with the television portrayals of students giving apples to their teachers, and the apple often being used as an object symbolizing teachers, I'm not sure it's a stereotype that teachers "like" apples. It may, however, be a stereotype that students give apples to their teachers.

[Winter wind]

While I'm familiar with the television portrayals of students giving apples to their teachers, and the apple often being used as an object symbolizing teachers, I'm not sure it's a stereotype that teachers "like" apples. It may, however, be a stereotype that students give apples to their teachers.

Fine. How about one that is based on fiction. Jesus looking like the white guy in every movie? Jesus was of Jewish descent and lived in the Middle east. There is no way He looked the way he does in every picture I see of him.

[Muckraker]

Every prejudgement starts from a stereotype. It is not possible to prejudge without a stereotype.

If I look at someone that evokes no stereotypes in my mind then I will be unable to prejudge that person. I can only examine a stereotype in action or take it to the next level - prejudgement - after the stereotype triggers.

It is possible, and recommended, to examine individual stereotypes because, with enough mental training, it is possible to eradicate the ones that you don't want in there.

Illogical stereotypes are a mental illness and anyone that has a phobia has mental problem that is based on an illogical stereotype. The way to deal with that phobia is to address the illogical stereotype at the heart of it.

So I would say the stance that stereotypes are a natural part of the human mind and are harmless is false. Stereotypes are always connected to prejudice and fear and it is possible to hone your mind and get rid of unwanted stereotypes.

[Kaylor]

Stereotypes are often hurtful to people, nobody likes to be judged by things other than who they are personally.

But if we were to conclude stereotypes as misleading, I believe we would be stereotyping stereotypical people. . .

[lsbskins1]

The point Flip is trying to make is that stereotyping is born of a need to provide stability in a chaotic landscape of constantly shifting and changing information. If you walked out of your front door every morning having to re-learn what was safe, what was dangerous, what was hot, what was cold, what was poisonous, it would lead to a level of sense overload that our minds would be unable to process. Stereotyping is a form of order your brain imposes on the world to allow you to function. It is like so many other things in this life - it can be used to dangerous excess, or can be under-utilized to your peril. To view it as "completely bad" is to misunderstand it's natural function. To rely on it to the exclusion of contrary evidence is to misunderstand it's natural function. "In all things, moderation."

[grandpa]

Quote by: lsbskins1 The point Flip is trying to make is that stereotyping is born of a need to provide stability in a chaotic landscape of constantly shifting and changing information. If you walked out of your front door every morning having to re-learn what was safe, what was dangerous, what was hot, what was cold, what was poisonous, it would lead to a level of sense overload that our minds would be unable to process.

But Flip is directing us away from the original question:
"Does stereotyping a group of people really create a false image of that group?"

Technically, that is different from fearing snakes or an oven that's hot. People may change, snakes are far more likely to stay poisonous.

Particularly when it comes to social questions (which again, is what this thread was started with), stereotypes need not be absolute. I know from experience. Because I live in a redneck-ish area, I sometimes have to get racist ideas out of my head. The general point is, social attitudes are sort of like mental habits, and habits can be hard to break -- meaning they can be passed on, subtly or overtly. It's certainly not always for our safety that we develop a certain thought process, though not all stereotypes have been in vain.

Grandpa h.

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: grandpa But Flip is directing us away from the original question: "Does stereotyping a group of people really create a false image of that group?" Technically, that is different from fearing snakes or an oven that's hot. People may change, snakes are far more likely to stay poisonous. Particularly when it comes to social questions (which again, is what this thread was started with), stereotypes need not be absolute. I know from experience. Because I live in a redneck-ish area, I sometimes have to get racist ideas out of my head. The general point is, social attitudes are sort of like mental habits, and habits can be hard to break -- meaning they can be passed on, subtly or overtly. It's certainly not always for our safety that we develop a certain thought process, though not all stereotypes have been in vain. Grandpa h.

Well, there is some point in what you say. Maybe he was trying to focus our language for expressing the problem. I think the thing that all reasonable people can agree on is that when you allow your "idea" of how a person will behave to trump the actuality of the behavior they evidence, then you have made a mistake and quite possibly done a wrong to a fellow human. Some people refuse to accept any vision of blacks or gays or muslims or jews that is not negative and all reasonable people can agree that that is wrong and leads to many injustices and great harm and needs to be challenged and stopped wherever possible.

[tinybear]

Quote by: Matt W Stereotyping is so often a load of BS it isn't funny anymore.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, I would say.

[grandpa]

Quote by: tinybear Sometimes yes, sometimes no, I would say.

True. An example is a comment I just read in Google Groups:
"I still think [McCain is] a flashback away from nuking anything that moves!"

I thought this was a little funny, and it's based on a stereotype.

Grandpa h.

[Piscean]

People are sheep who like to know where to huddle. Everywhere I look I see people living up to the stereotypes about them because they re dumb enough to need to fit in where they think they are supposed to fit in. It's pathetic and disgusting. The consequence to not doing so however is to not fit in anywhere like me. But I'll take that over the ignorance required to fit in with any group, race, click, social class etc.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Piscean People are sheep who like to know where to huddle. Everywhere I look I see people living up to the stereotypes about them because they re dumb enough to need to fit in where they think they are supposed to fit in. It's pathetic and disgusting.

Unfortunately, many are eager to follow a leader and cannot see right through them every time.
That is why, whenever I'm the one people ask for advice, I hesitate to offer a suggestion. Mistakes in understanding are so easy to make, and everyone has moments of gullibility. In a real enough way, that's how we mark our territory. Mistakes in judgment and sheepish loyalty abound, littering the social landscape.
Everyone wants to be saved, so they turn to some leader and some symbols to show the way.

Of course, I may be stereotyping.

Grandpa h.