The Dumbing Of America

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Muckraker The first few weeks of American Idol puts mentally ill and ugly people on display so the millions of viewers can laugh as each night presents us with uglier and crazier people than the previous night.

I have often found myself wondering about the mental illnesses of the Idol castoffs. Clearly, some of them exhibit signs of Aspergers or other socialization-type diseases, if not merely tone-deafness.

Shows like Jackass and South Park are also well received by audiences.

Now, Jackass I can't speak to. But the fact that South Park is well received by audiences is a credit to our intelligence - it's one of the smartest-written shows ever. Biting satire which, i might add, often focuses on the exact problem we are speaking of here - the 4 boys the show focuses on are the voices of reason in a town (and sometimes a world) of idiots.

But there will always be readers, and to claim that people who don't read are lumped in with all the other uneducated idiots in the world is incredibly shortsighted. There are other options for the acquisition of information in modern times. One hundred years ago, there were not many other options and yet many people still did not read when it was one of the only options for gaining knowledge.

Absolutely. It's as shortsighted as thinking that people who read great works of literature are somehow more educated - there are different forms of intelligence, and there is nothing wrong with being intelligent in areas other than knowledge of literature.

I think that's what's really going on here. There is simply more information available in the world - a lot more. People triage the information that is important, and the bottom line is that, for many people, being able to point to the UK on a map is less important than being able to point to a chart of last month's sales figures.

And let's not act like the phenomenon is limited to Americans. We are, as world leaders, easy targets for such surveys and studies. I would venture to say that many developed nations are in similar situations.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: Nono Jeez, compugasm, a video doesn't have to prove anything. Just put it in a nutshell. For proof, I suggest you go out on the street and conduct your own mini-survey. That'll be proof.

I say that it won't prove anything, especially intelligence. If they don't know who Kelly Clarkson is, does that make them smart because they don't waste their time watching American Idol, or dumb, because they don't pay attention to cultural events? If they've never sent email, are they dumb? If I ask enough questions, eventually I find something they don't know. That makes people ignorant because I backed it up with inaccurate statistics? I don't belive that is true.

Sure makes for a funny show huh? Jeff Foxworthy, with his southern drawl mocking your intelligence... What is worse, not knowing the capital of Canada, or watching the TV show about it? Good lord, don't get me started on a TV rant.

[gela]

heres some more disturbing info:

41.6% of American patients could not comprehend directions for taking medication on an empty stomach 26% were unable to understand information regarding when their next appointment was scheduled 50.5% could not understand a standard informed consent form About 20% of the US population are functionally illiterate; for some subsets of our population, that rises to 40%.

Source


For whoever said it was probly the same it all developed coutries:

The National Geographic–Roper 2002 Global Geographic Literacy Survey polled more than 3,000 18- to 24-year-olds in Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Sweden and the United States. Sweden scored highest; Mexico, lowest. The U.S. was next to last. About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent. Particularly humiliating was that all countries were better able to identify the U.S. population than many young U.S. citizens. Within the U.S., almost one-third said that population was between one billion and two billion; the answer is 289 million. "It gives the sense that there is this Americentric thing going on—that we are big and powerful and have all these people in our country," said John Fahey, President and CEO of the National Geographic Society.

Source

# The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004). # The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). # Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005). # "The International Adult Literacy Survey...found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78). # "Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32). # Forty-three percent of Americans think torture is sometimes justified, according to a PEW Poll (Associated Press, Aug. 19, 2004).

Source <- this site has alot of other interesting facts too.

* 46% to 51% of adult Americans either cannot read at all, or cannot read well enough to understand simple printed instructions, read a newspaper, fill out a job application or understand a bus schedule! (National Institute for Literacy, 1998)

Source



argue!

[Winter wind]

Britain is Repossessing the U.S.A. – A Message from John Cleese



To the citizens of the United States of America:



In light of your failure to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas , which she does not fancy). Your new prime minister, Gordon Brown, will appoint a governor for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Colony, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:



1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.



2. Then look up aluminium, and check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.



3. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix -ize will be replaced by the suffix -ise. Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').



4. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as US English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell- checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of -ize. You will relearn your original national anthem, God Save The Queen.



5. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.



6. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. A permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.



7. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and this is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.



8. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.



9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline)-roughly $10 per US gallon. Get used to it.



10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.



11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. South African beer is also acceptable as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of British Commonwealth - see what it did for them.





12. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie McDowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.



13. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies). Don't try Rugby – the South Africans and Kiwis will thrash you, like they regularly thrash us.



14. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their deliveries.



15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.



16. An official from Her Majesty's Inland Revenue (i.e. tax collector) will be with you shortly to ensure the collection of all monies due (backdated to 1776). Until these are paid, there will be no representative government in the USA, in line with the policy: "No representation without taxation.”



17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper cups and saucers (never mugs), and with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; strawberries in season.



18. Some tea has gone missing, and we expect it back. We'll be searching Boston first.



God save the Queen. She should be saved, and only He can.



John Cleese

[Winter wind]

Quote by: compug I say that it won't prove anything, especially intelligence. If they don't know who Kelly Clarkson is, does that make them smart because they don't waste their time watching American Idol, or dumb, because they don't pay attention to cultural events? If they've never sent email, are they dumb? If I ask enough questions, eventually I find something they don't know. That makes people ignorant because I backed it up with inaccurate statistics? I don't belive that is true

Your actually comparing not knowing who Kelly Clarkson is with not knowing a country that starts with "U".

You need a better argument there, because the obvious idea is: how can we expect these people to vote when they don't know anything about the qualifications.
And gela's clip is based off of National Geographic, BBC, and others I've forgotten. Not exactly the worst sources available.

My clip was just for fun. (appalling, but funny none the less)

Gela's clip is something much more interesting and her follow up post confirms it's validity.
Give it up, American's need a better education system.

[Chris]

They do the same thing over here on the tonight show with Jay Leno. Its called comedy. I recognize that guy in your clip cause I posted a YT video of him on my blog, and from what I can gather, he is a comedian who does a comedy show.

Back to people being idiots, America has a big population. And level of education seems to be that on par with the rest of the world, but there are lots of other factors at play here. Like Americans being close-minded inconsiderate, rude and ignorant of how the world works and other countries. There are a lot of Americans who claim that America is the greatest country who have never left the country.

And then there is the religion thing. (probably best discussed in other threads)

Someone could go onto any other country and ask the same sorts of questions and get the same results and edit them together to make comedy. It doesn't conclusively say that the citizens of that country are stupid. It only says that some of the citizens of that country are stupid.

[Winter wind]

Someone could go onto any other country and ask the same sorts of questions and get the same results and edit them together to make comedy. It doesn't conclusively say that the citizens of that country are stupid. It only says that some of the citizens of that country are stupid.

I don't think they spent more then a couple of hours on it. The fact they could do this within a day is depressing. Try the same in GB or India.
Plus, it was for comedy more then for facts.

[Muckraker]

Quote by: Winter wind Your actually comparing not knowing who Kelly Clarkson is with not knowing a country that starts with "U".

And what exactly is the real world value of being able to locate countries on a map?

I had to learn all the countries and capitols of the continent of Africa in 7th grade. I wish they would have instead taught me the dance steps to the Electric Slide because there have been about a dozen instances in my life when knowing the Electric Slide would have come in handy but knowing the countries and capitols in Africa has never come in handy. I've even played Trivial Pursuit about ten times in my life and yet never got hit with an Africa question. Subsequently, my current knowledge of the countries and capitols of Africa is severely limited even though at one time in my life I could accurately locate all of them.

Having a working knowledge of geography is of absolutely no value to most people. It is trivial knowledge and that is why we forget it all twenty years after we learned it in grade school. We remember how to tie our shoes because we do it every day. If we were required to recite all of the countries that start with the letter U every day then we would remember them as well.

Just look at the show "Are you Smarter than a 5th Grader." The whole show is based off the concept that people of differing levels of intelligence don't remember some things they learned in 5th grade. My response to that is - Big Frickin' Deal.

All of that "idiot probing" is done purely for entertainment. And I also firmly believe that the statistics that have been cited are severely flawed. For instance, the statistic that 50% of adult Americans are not literate is idiotic. Many Americans are fully literate in their native languages and since the United States is the destination of most of the world's immigrants it is pretty inaccurate to state that Americans are illiterate when they are simply not literate in the most commonly used language of the country.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: Winter wind I don't think they spent more then a couple of hours on it.

I'm not even sure why you would even bring this up. The length of time it took to edit a video, is totally irrelevant information.

Quote by: Winter wind Your actually comparing not knowing who Kelly Clarkson is with not knowing a country that starts with "U". You need a better argument there, because the obvious idea is: how can we expect these people to vote when they don't know anything about the qualifications.

The British people don't know shit either.

PS. Message to John Cleese.
Davy Jones is storing the tea in question. See him if you wish to retrieve it. You're still pisseed about Fort Ticonderoga. Sorry, but we have all the money and the guns. So you, the Queen, and Earl Grey can suck it.

Just to prove how great America is:


Cappuccino, TEXAS STYLE!! Now that's America bitches!! Yeehaw!!

PPS To John Cleese
This video is what would happen if England tried to retake Breeds Hill.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: muck And what exactly is the real world value of being able to locate countries on a map?

....err...
If your going to bomb a country, best know where it is lest you miss and start a war with China. Also, in a more general sense, not being able to locate a country shows a lack of even cursory knowledge about the place. It's fine unless you are voting to invade the country, in which case it would be nice to know something about it that tv pundits didn't throw at you.

Subsequently, my current knowledge of the countries and capitols of Africa is severely limited even though at one time in my life I could accurately locate all of them.

Fine, but you wouldn't place Congo in Australia.

If we were required to recite all of the countries that start with the letter U every day then we would remember them as well.

You probably recite one of the countries once a week. How could you not answer the question?

All of that "idiot probing" is done purely for entertainment. And I also firmly believe that the statistics that have been cited are severely flawed. For instance, the statistic that 50% of adult Americans are not literate is idiotic. Many Americans are fully literate in their native languages and since the United States is the destination of most of the world's immigrants it is pretty inaccurate to state that Americans are illiterate when they are simply not literate in the most commonly used language of the country.

Err, no. Immigration level is not that high. 73% are white so unless they only speak Germain and non-whites, suddenly aren't literate..

Quote by: compug I'm not even sure why you would even bring this up. The length of time it took to edit a video, is totally irrelevant information.

it is relevant because it shows a lesser agenda. It isn't like they took this film and filmed every American and just took the dumb answers. No, they just went out one day, maybe two or three, and asked people these questions. Should we count how many they found that couldn't answer the most basic of questions?
"Where was the Berlin Wall?"
You ask 20 random people on your block and I'll do the same here, then we'll compare answers.

The British people don't know shit either.

Watched it and the questions were harder. And one of the people he was interviewing was a kid.

[Jack]

Quote by: Winter wind Britain is Repossessing the U.S.A. – A Message from John Cleese

On the Snopes page that debunks this (yeah, it's an urban legend) there are some equally witty rebuttals from our side of the pond.

[Winter wind]

Quote by: isher On the Snopes page that debunks this (yeah, it's an urban legend) there are some equally witty rebuttals from our side of the pond.

It wasn't meant to be serious. Just funny. I didn't want to make a thing out of it...

and john cleese made a better argument against American football.

True men wear no armor.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Winter wind It wasn't meant to be serious. Just funny. I didn't want to make a thing out of it... and john cleese made a better argument against American football. True men wear no armor.

Wow, he must really have a self image problem if he doesn't consider himself a "true man"... A shame, I would have thought he was more comfortable with himself.

[gela]

^ If you listen to the commentary on the dvd like I do.. you will find that that isn't actualy armor, its just silver knited wool.

WIN!

[Winter wind]

Wow, he must really have a self image problem if he doesn't consider himself a "true man"... A shame, I would have thought he was more comfortable with himself.

I'm not wearing armor...

Plus I'm 17 and find people who call themselves "true men" publicly to be macho and arrogant.

And again, armor is for those who think they can't take a hit.
(no I really don't want to have this debate, but what the hell)

[Chancellor]

Quote by: nerdvincent Here we can see that America's average IQ is falling apart: -45% believes in young earth creationism -MTV's music is getting less and less complex. Jazz music, prog rock...they're called elitist and self-indulgent. -Look at the mainstream comedies: fart (people laughing). -"Hey, what do you think about-" "Hey, want a beer dude?" -"We're the greatest country ever! (Chauvinist atttitude isn't a proof of intelligence) And so on... I gave clichés, of course, but that's not far from the truth. If we look into history: -Roman empire was at its most powerful state, and then fell in decadence with orgies, feast... -Same for the greeks: Soon after Plato's era, they fell into decadence and died. -Same for many other civilisations, jsut look into history book. America is the next.

None of this has anything whatsoever to do with IQ.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Muckraker And what exactly is the real world value of being able to locate countries on a map?

Well, since you asked...

The Nature, Unity and Value of Geography.

Cartographic Communication

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=153...3E2.0.CO%3B2-7

Geographical Association - Campaigning for Geography

http://www.ttrb.ac.uk/viewArticle2.aspx?contentId=10789

How do young Americans stack up regarding geography? CNN.com - Study: Geography Greek to young Americans - May 2, 2006

I had to learn all the countries and capitols of the continent of Africa in 7th grade. I wish they would have instead taught me the dance steps to the Electric Slide because there have been about a dozen instances in my life when knowing the Electric Slide would have come in handy but knowing the countries and capitols in Africa has never come in handy. I've even played Trivial Pursuit about ten times in my life and yet never got hit with an Africa question. Subsequently, my current knowledge of the countries and capitols of Africa is severely limited even though at one time in my life I could accurately locate all of them.

Well, I suspect that what you had to learn was the capitals of those countries and not the capitols. There doesn't seem to be much value in learning all the government buildings (capitols) of a particular country - even our own.

Having a working knowledge of geography is of absolutely no value to most people. It is trivial knowledge and that is why we forget it all twenty years after we learned it in grade school. We remember how to tie our shoes because we do it every day. If we were required to recite all of the countries that start with the letter U every day then we would remember them as well.

Having a working knowledge of literature or of history is arguably of no value to most people either - yet these are considered part of a well-rounded education.

Just look at the show "Are you Smarter than a 5th Grader." The whole show is based off the concept that people of differing levels of intelligence don't remember some things they learned in 5th grade. My response to that is - Big Frickin' Deal.

Not that intelligence has anything to do with education.

All of that "idiot probing" is done purely for entertainment. And I also firmly believe that the statistics that have been cited are severely flawed. For instance, the statistic that 50% of adult Americans are not literate is idiotic. Many Americans are fully literate in their native languages and since the United States is the destination of most of the world's immigrants it is pretty inaccurate to state that Americans are illiterate when they are simply not literate in the most commonly used language of the country.

The only language that matters in America is American English. But I agree that the 50 percent figure is questionable. Here's what may be a more accurate picture: http://www.proliteracy.org/downloads...2010-25-04.pdf and How Literate are Americans? and Illiterate America - Newsweek

Now here's something that might be a bit scary: Why Don't Americans Care?

[Technosoul]

When it comes to grammer and spelling I am one of the worse offenders here at Volconvo. Lucky for me they got rules about not calling someone stupid. I wonder if we will ever have a rule about calling someone an intellectural (being that this term is slowly becoming a "bad title" to have?

Also I am not well read about all the lastest science "facts" and so forth.

But here is my question. Does having a good memory of learned knowledge, rote knowledge, a mandatory aspect for becoming an intellectural? Could a person not make an intellectural observation about our country even if they could not express that knowing with the proper grammer, etc?

By the way this is really an important topic and I hope it continues because it needs lots of attention.

[Jack]

Does having a good memory of learned knowledge, rote knowledge, a mandatory aspect for becoming an intellectural? Could a person not make an intellectural observation about our country even if they could not express that knowing with the proper grammer, etc?

I'd say yes to the latter but no to the former. The important factor is using your intellect (the root of intellectual). How you use it isn't as important as the fact you are using it. Just parroting information you've picked up without bothering to think about it, contemplate it or putting it into a context you can really grasp is not showing intelligence. Our computers can do that. Part of being intellectual is using your own mind to consider the information you encounter and expressing your own thoughts coherently.

Part of coherently expressing yourself does require some knowledge of the language you're using. I hope to go into that in more detail in a forthcoming blog entry explaining my stance of grammar-nazis.