rap is NOT music!

[Nemiroff]

Rap in it's current form, and in any form is has previously existed, with maybe the exception of some underground rapper or group I have never heard of, isn't music. Its just talking to a beat. There is no singing, no change in the beat or progression of any kind! I want someone to show me what part of rap would qualify it as music.

And before everyone starts hating and calling me a racist, I'm not insulting rap, mearely trying to define it more accurately, its poetry, and whose to say which is the superior art.

[freedom13]

YouTube - run dmc walk this way

Run DMC and Aerosmith

What will you call hard metal rock and rap music combined together?

[nerdvincent]

Music is dead.
Repetitive powercords on guitar or an lame electronic beat with talking over it...where is music guys? MTV is the Big Mac of music, the thing we can hardly call music by definition, inexpensive to do and easy to sell to a brainwashed society.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a conservative elitist weirdo. I like avant guarde music (Buckethead, Mr Bungle, Arcana...) because they're true artists. They're like contemporary art in painting, but rap and all the mainstream music we heard aren't art, they're just like bad copies of still lifes you sell 1000 at the time to cheap hotel.

Jazz? It's made of improvisation, it shows the spontaneity, it's a deep instrospection to the core of the artist. The friggin' 2 powercord worthing millions you see since Nirvana are just...a riff! No soul...nothing.

I'm a musician myself, I can tell. What worth listening nowaday? Some contemporary jazz (Pat Metheny's new albums, Pharoah Sanders...), experimental music (Buckethead, Mr Bungle, John Zorn, Praxis, Primus...), contemporary blues (Buddy Guy is back, and better than ever!), a jazz fusion revival (TRibal Tech, Cab, Greg Howe...) and a very few prog rock albums (you've got to search, even Dream Theater are becoming commercials...).

Rock? No more. Deep Purple, Led Zep, AC/DC and such were listenable, but not especially good. Some 80's Neo-Classical Metal shredder were very good, but most of them are dead since late 90's.

It's so good to say this! MUSIC AIN'T MUSIC ANYMORE, ITS BUSINESS AT ITS BEST!

[nerdvincent]

If a killer hired by music industry come and kill me for saying the truth, please send flowers to my mom.

[another day]

Quote by: Nemiroff Rap in it's current form, and in any form is has previously existed, with maybe the exception of some underground rapper or group I have never heard of, isn't music. Its just talking to a beat. There is no singing, no change in the beat or progression of any kind! I want someone to show me what part of rap would qualify it as music. And before everyone starts hating and calling me a racist, I'm not insulting rap, mearely trying to define it more accurately, its poetry, and whose to say which is the superior art.

Lol... This is complete crap. There are changes in the beat, chord progressions, scales etc.

Besides, who are you to define what constitutes music? A simple drum beat is still music. You seem to have an elitest view of it.

Whether it's a good form of music is debatable, but alot of rap is extremely good. You, like all critics of the genre, have only been exposed to the mainstream crap. Would you say pop is a horrible genre because it's dominated by the likes of britney spears and justin timberlake? And yet, the beatles were pop.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Nemiroff Rap in it's current form, and in any form is has previously existed, with maybe the exception of some underground rapper or group I have never heard of, isn't music. Its just talking to a beat. There is no singing, no change in the beat or progression of any kind! I want someone to show me what part of rap would qualify it as music. And before everyone starts hating and calling me a racist, I'm not insulting rap, mearely trying to define it more accurately, its poetry, and whose to say which is the superior art.

If Phillip Glass is considered a musician, then Rap is music.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 If Phillip Glass is considered a musician, then Rap is music.

If someone likes a sound, it can be considered music. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only crietria.

I recently gave a positive review to a sound experiment involving a microphone and a paint can moving around in a bag. I also love certain early industrial acts and a select few rap tracks. I have a punk and metal interest, as well as avant garde.
Grandpa h.

[thebuescherman]

Music is a pretty broad concept. I suppose Rap is a certain type of music, though it is very simplistic and lacks many musical traits. Music that isn't very musical perhaps?

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: grandpa If someone likes a sound, it can be considered music. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only crietria.

I agree, I was just making the point that Philip Glass is considered by many to be the father of modern music. As a minimalist, if rap is not considered music than even simpler music such as many of Philip Glass' works should not be considered such as well.

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 I agree, I was just making the point that Philip Glass is considered by many to be the father of modern music. As a minimalist, if rap is not considered music than even simpler music such as many of Philip Glass' works should not be considered such as well.

Buckethead's "Kevin's Noodle House" was minimalist, minimalist in order to give a special feeling, just like a painted blue square in the middle of a white background express the state of distress of humanity given by whatever in comtemporary art... But most of the mainstream shit are just bullshit. Musically they have no such content, they paint nearly identic still life (the ultimate exemple of painting for the sake of painting, just like rap's musical background is noise for the sake of making noise) and say it's art and it depends of the tastes of people [Or rather the tastes they gave to people...]. It is art, but is it good art?

[nerdvincent]

But rap could be considered poetry with a beat to sustain it, right, I've got no problem with that, I can even like it if it's good poetry (not that:.50 CENT LYRICS - Candy Shop) But don't call it music, please!

[Chris]

The pop top 40 rap where they pair one rapper, with a female singer, over and over and over again into eternity - is crap and is not music at all.

There are exceptions. See my Last.fm for details.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: nerdvincent Buckethead's "Kevin's Noodle House" was minimalist, minimalist in order to give a special feeling, just like a painted blue square in the middle of a white background express the state of distress of humanity given by whatever in comtemporary art... But most of the mainstream shit are just bullshit. Musically they have no such content, they paint nearly identic still life (the ultimate exemple of painting for the sake of painting, just like rap's musical background is noise for the sake of making noise) and say it's art and it depends of the tastes of people [Or rather the tastes they gave to people...]. It is art, but is it good art?

Ok, so SOME rap is not good music just like SOME classical is not good music either. Substitute any genre for the before mentioned.

I don't know how people can listen to some rap like "Lose Yourself" by Eminem and still say absolutely that Rap is not music.

[simple simon]

is rap music ?

i would say it's just like the old saying .... it's all in the eyes of the beholder ...... or in this case in the ears of the beholder

[gallo]

I guess, though rap may be music, it isn't very musical. Someone mentioned cord changes, but for the most part I can't hear any chords over the thump-thump of the beat. Neither do I understand any of the words, for the most part.

Maybe I'm just not musical enough, or it may have to do more with the music that I grew up with. I grew up with music that had more than just chord changes - it had an actual melody and much of the time you could understand the words. It was more than thump-thump and bubba-bubba.

[gela]

Definition of Music:
Organised Sound.

As a former Eminem fangirl, I can see the upside in rap. For me, it was about the words - thats why I'd call rap more poetry then it is music. But then, there always had to be a catchy chorus.. so I supose thats musical. Basicly, I would call rap - like all music with lyrics, poetry mixed with music. However, rap has a much higher emphasis on the poetry, and a lower emphasis on the music.

Mainstream music isn't about music anymore. Its about image. Wheres the proof? there are no ugly mainstream artists.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 I agree, I was just making the point that Philip Glass is considered by many to be the father of modern music. As a minimalist, if rap is not considered music than even simpler music such as many of Philip Glass' works should not be considered such as well.

Whether something ir music or not is always subjective. I can say a sound is good, or not as bad as something else, but that's about it. "Modern music" makes the distinction even more difficult, which itself isn't entirely bad. People should feel relatively free to challenge established norms in music, either in the studio or on the stage. I like certain music that's a blend of different styles, and modern music (yes, including technology) makes that ever more possible.
Of course, I'm speaking of music in general and in theory. In reality, there are sounds I find abominable, there are treacherous bands that make me seriously question the need for sound art. But that's a given.

I'm a musician as well, and, though I often get good reviews from other musicians, some people would absolutely hate my approach. Of course, the same was true of "serious" composers at the turn of the century (not to toot my own horn).

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: gela Definition of Music: Organised Sound. As a former Eminem fangirl, I can see the upside in rap.

I agree Eminem has some degree of talent. I don't listen to him, but it's easy to see.

That aside, I haven't seen a "good" rap video yet. Usually they just have scenes of girls "shaking it," showing homeboy's "making it," and teenage boys can pause it or put it in slo mo, and you know.....

(Gee, I came close to writing a modern rap classic in this e-mail).

Grandpa h.

[freedom13]

Quote by: grandpa I agree Eminem has some degree of talent. I don't listen to him, but it's easy to see. That aside, I haven't seen a "good" rap video yet. Usually they just have scenes of girls "shaking it," showing homeboy's "making it," and teenage boys can pause it or put it in slo mo, and you know..... (Gee, I came close to writing a modern rap classic in this e-mail). Grandpa h.

Come on, Grandpa! You don’t LIKE SLIM SHADY?

YouTube - Eminem - THE REAL SLIM SHADY

[Nemiroff]

I'm talking about rap in general, not just what they play on the radio, I know that's a dumbed down version of the genre for the masses. I'm talking about the fact that there isn't much music in it. The whole genre isn't music, and a couple of songs in the whole genre that may change their sound just alittle mid song isn't gonna be able to change the classification for all of them. Neither is a joint performance with areosmith, or a simple chorus.

Biggy was the greatest rapper and all his raps are gold, 2pac although not my favorite has my respect, and his raps are as pure a form of poetry as you can get. I listen to a couple of nas raps, the first dmx album, and kanye west is the only new rapper I can even listen to. I'm not into rap enough to listen to the underground, but I know enough that I don't take the radio/MTV crap into consideration.

All of those rappers are greats, in particular biggy and 2pac, but none of them sang, they recited. With a simple, or recently, not so simple beat in the background to keep the pace. A drum beat is not music, it's a beat. A beat is not a form of music, it's a component, and a beat alone will not make a song.

is it that hard to consider the possibility that poetry may exist today in a popular form? Is it that degrading to be called poetry? I have considered rap music for the longest because that's what everyone keeps calling it, but the more I thought about it the less it makes sense.