The Nintendo Revolution

[Nemiroff]

Nintendo is trying to revolutionize video games with the wii and its innovative controllers, taking games out of the lazy couch potatoe's hands and turning video games into a workout, but the games so far and in my opinion suck.
I wasn't sure if a system with with such outdated graphics would survive in the modern graphics hungry market. Gameplay and story, I feel, are more important, but the games are starting to make me want to buy an alternative system.
What do you guys think, is this gonna be the new thing or old news?

[bishop]

nintendo is certainly revolutionizing the way games can be played - but they are not revolutionizing the games themselves as far as i'm concerned.

my brother has the wii and i've seen and played a bunch of the games. the gameplay design is interesting, but i felt it got a little annoying after a while. also, the difficulty (ex. mario) was noticeably scaled down in order to accommodate the new gameplay design. many of the games seemed markedly easier than the games i have and play on my 360.

one thing the wii has failed to do imo is create new genres/sub-genres of games. three examples that come to mind.

1. gears of war - there have been previous attempts at creating action-based tactical shooters (ex. operation winback), but this game truly redefined expectations of what those types of games should be like. up to the point of its release, there was not a single game out there that performed close to as well as gears did.

2. bioshock - an fps with roleplaying/character-building elements... a game where you get a multitude of user-defined powers in addition to weapons. you can play it using stealth, or run & gun. and, it was an fps that actually had a very well developed storyline that held up strong throughout the game.

3. mass effect - this game's characterized as an rpg, but it doesn't fit into any of the genre's as far as i'm concerned. the dialog system forces the player to make very difficult choices that effect gameplay. you can be as ruthless or nice as you want to be, as well as shades of grey in between. the action/fighting system can be run & gun similar to gears, or very tactical like a rainbow six kind of game (where you can command your partners to use various weapons & powers against objects & enemies). you can decide whether you want to manage the way your character levels up, or automate it (i.e. choosing between a traditional RPG setup or pushing it into the background).


all in all, nintendo is pushing the envelope as far as gameplay goes - but they are failing dismally at pushing video game genres forward. games can be much more than playing decade-old franchises and doing the same things you always used to do (find the bomb power up, then the power bombs, then the super missiles, then the screw attack, etc..). and, this is being proven on the 360's titles.

[Praxius]

I like pretty much everything about it... the controls, the games, the graphics, although not the best like they were in the Gamecube generation (Custom ATI graphics card built inside and imo, better graphic capabilities then the original X-Box or PS2)

But one thing that I feel has the Wii in an advantage is it's continual connection to the Nintendo network, where you can get automatic free updates, patches, etc. directly from Nintendo for your favorite games, so that if they suck now, they may not later on.

Also the fact that they made the Wii backwards compatible with all the older Nintendo systems, how can you beat that?

My Gamecube controllers, memory cards and games all fit the Wii, so I can continue playing those games as well as the new ones.

You can goto the Nintendo site and download all the original Nintendo games onto the Wii, all the Super Nintendo games, all the N64, All the Sega Genisis, and I also believe the Turbo Graphix 16 games.....

And the fact that it's half the price of the other systems.... a little graphics inferiority isn't much in my books.

The PS3 and the X-Box 360 haven't peaked my interest in the slightest.

[bishop]

a system whose highlight (aside from the controller) is being able to play old games is revolutionary??

seems like an oxymoron.

ps, you grossly underplay the difference in graphics imo.

[Nemiroff]

A fps with rpg upgrade elements and a great storyline: deus ex best game I've ever played.
And an original genre for the Wii: trauma center, the most creative Nintendo game out.

I'm praying that their just learning how to use this new tech. I just got the new dragon ball z game and they really improved the controls, smoother, faster, easier, but all the minigames they're releasing make me want to play something serious. Can't they tell those controls were made for the first person! Where's my star wars lightsaber action!

[Praxius]

Quote by: bishop a system whose highlight (aside from the controller) is being able to play old games is revolutionary?? seems like an oxymoron.

Not really, without aknowleging your past you can't know where you are going.... a revolution is the turn of a full circle, therefore there can be an begining and an end as the future comes.

But in different terms, what other console has bothered to even do something similar with old classics and games we all grew up on, where you can no longer by the systems or games, except 2nd hand and probably half broken/unreliable?

Sure the 360 can play old X-box games from what I hear, but in comparison to the library available to the Wii, plus the fact it too can play the previous generation games of the Gamecube, I don't see them on the same level.

I mean you can also download the roms and such for free online, but of course that's illegal, and it's not the same as playing them back on the Tube.

ps, you grossly underplay the difference in graphics imo.

For what, this generation or the PS2/XB/Gamecube generation?

If you meant the Gamecube, I didn't.... the load times, the graphics, the controlls on the GC beat the other two hands down.

As an example, Resident Evil 4 had much sharper graphics and details on the GC then on the PS2, the controls were faster and had less cramp effect on the GC then the PS2, and the loading speeds on the GC were so much faster then on the PS2, that the interactive movie scenes were seamless between action and video, while the PS2 stalled for a second during the inputs. Plus the fact that the PS2 version actually required a "Loading....." part between the secenes and levels, where as the GC didn't have much of a delay at all, the GC dominated this area in all aspects.

The X-Box's controller felt and worked about as effective as a Fisher Price chew toy for toddlers, the buttons were in horible positions and the whole thing just didn't fit the hand imo... where as the GC controller gave little resistence in input, the joystick was very accurate, and the positioning of your hands reduced chances of cramps from long gameplay in comparison..... in fact I never had my hands cramp from the GC controller..... the first and only controller that never gave my hands cramps from prolonged gameplay.


Best Controller Ever imo.

Sure it looks kinda silly, but it reminded me of just how the Super Nintendo controller changed the way we play (which the PS1 ripped off, sorta..... there's more details to it then that) They kinda went back from the N64 freak controller to this which to me seems like an upgrade from the SNES controller, with PS1 features and just a couple more buttons then what the SNES originally had.

Overall the Gamecube was the best system of it's generation..... it's major downfall was the stupid ass marketing to the younger audience where the other companies geared for the older generations such as ourselves.... but the GC still holds many memorable games worth a play over again.

It may not have had the library of games as the other two did, but when it boils down to the technicalities of graphics, controls and load times..... the other two didn't come close.

The X-Box was close in graphics, as it had a GeForce in it that was in your typical PC's of the time, but the Gamecube had a Cutsom ATI which was specifically designed for use in the Gamecube and to be honest, I didn't think much of the gamecube at the start..... it was cheap, so I bought it.... it wasn't until after my library built up that I began to see that the GC was seriously under rated,

[bishop]

i had a gamecube (and had all previous nintendo systems), and ended up trading it in for a ps2. resident evil was by far the best game for that system, which was very good to see since it wasn't one of nintendo's stale franchise games. as far as playing the old titles is concerned, nesticle worked fine for me and didn't cost a dime. granted, i couldn't get all the other systems, although i didn't see not having n64 games as any loss whatsoever (that system was a total disaster imo). gamecube's controller produced sweaty palms like none other. and, its springs would wear out way too fast. sony's dual-shock on the other hand, lasted me for 2 years straight.

but that said, i think this topic's about the wii, not the gamecube...

like i said, and in my opinion... where i see nintendo being revolutionary is in terms of its new approach to gameplay mechanics. the ability to access a bunch of old games is a nice-to-have, but hardly revolutionary as far as i'm concerned (it was a technically easy and inexpensive addition - a pragmatic decision by nintendo).

1. while the controllers can be interesting for some (not for me), they are the first venture into the arena - i.e. there's a lot of room for improvement. it might have been better to release this controller afterwards, despite the fact that they're the key selling point to persuade people to buy the system.
2. inferior graphical capabilities.
3. inferior processing capabilities. the lack of capabilities will result in trade offs like better AI in exchange for good graphics. the games i've seen and played thus far seem to try and find watered-down mixes for both AI as well as graphics. and, the AI has been less than impressive in the games i've played (other than metroid's pirates). this has resulted in none of the wii's games redefining any existing genres - or creating new genres (especially in comparison to the games i mentioned above).
4. not a whole lot of 3rd party games, which will repeat the gamecube's sorry legacy of having a puny library in comparison to the alternatives. some of the best games out there are currently being created by 3rd parties. ancient franchises like mario, zelda and metroid desperately need to be retired imo and replaced with something fresh and new (or completely overhauled at a minimum). and, it is currently churning out "must have" games at a snail's pace.


i'm not sure if you can download free trial versions of upcoming games on the wii, but you certainly can on the 360.. i've really come to love this particular feature. and while both systems can play mp3s, it's markedly easier on the 360.

[Nemiroff]

The wii's controller is great the way it is. Its design screams first person, each controller can control a hand, or the left controller can be used simply for movement. If you think of it like that its like a regular controller (left side analog for movement, right has buttons for attacking and such, its just split so u can relax).
You can turn it sideways and use it like a wheel (or pop it into the wheel accessory and turn it into a wheel, the whole accessory system has a lot of potential). In red steel, you can pick up weapons, reload, open doors, knock over things, and throw grenades just by shaking the nunchuck (left controller). The game wasn't the best but it did show off the wii's first person potential.

I'm guessing most of the money went into the new tech, at the expense of graphics, and hopefully Wii 2 will have all the bases covered, and graphics aren't all that important anyway.

The biggest problem are the games. They need more games like trauma center surgery in the living room

[bishop]

Quote by: Nemiroff at the expense of graphics...

and processing power, which limits the quality of games that can be made for the system. to have complex AI running for multiple computer controlled characters at the same time takes a lot of resources - the wii may not be capable of such feats.

[Nemiroff]

the processing is the cpu, graphics are graphics card, completely seperate, i haven't heard much about the processing power of the wii but the graphics are getting better

[Praxius]

may not.... we'll see how it turns out in another year perhaps.

I figured the games would suck on the gamecube with those tiny little discs, but was proven wrong.

And I loved Smash Bros. that was the first game I played on it.

But the Wii, I feel will be more about optimizing those games to what they need. A lot of video games today use a lot of intensive graphics, polygons and shaders, etc..... but there are new engines that can cut a lot of that down form distances and up close.

I think some of the games may take a little longer to get on the Wii, like RE4 took for the PS2, but I think they'll get it working.

I did notice that Call of Duty.... um... 4? it isn't Multiplayer on the Wii.... but they have the updater and patcher, so who knows, one day you may turn your Wii on and it'll be multiplayer (I dunno the exact details)

But I seen the Surgery game and that looked pretty cool. I liked the boxing as I beat the snot out of my aunt, although she won in the end. The boweling was pretty fun.

And I own Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones and Zelda: The Twilight Princess for the Gamecube, and those two games are awsome, both in graphics and gameplay. With them on the Wii with the unique controls, I think they'd be probably pretty addictive.

[bishop]

Quote by: Nemiroff the processing is the cpu, graphics are graphics card, completely seperate, i haven't heard much about the processing power of the wii but the graphics are getting better

i understand that. i think you misunderstood me.

not only is the capacity for processing graphics lower, but the cpu processing is also lower. despite how everyone readily admits that the graphical power is a lot lower, the cpu processing is MUCH lower proportionately. if you don't think this will seriously limit the depth of games that can be developed for the system, compared to those for more powerful machines, you're fooling yourself.

wii's cpu: 729mhz
360's cpu: 3.2ghz

that's over 4 times the processing power, while the graphical processing power is only 2 times stronger on the 360 (although the actual card has over 3 times the embedded RAM).

[Praxius]

Hey, I'm satisfied with the graphics I saw on the GC.... if they're a little better or the same, I ain't got a beef, and they can keep making games that look like zelda, metroid or resident evil.







I don't see a nessecity at this time to have better graphics until perhaps another two years, and I imagine around that time, they'll havr a new one or an upgrade adapter you plug it into, like the old Sega CD. All those consoles Nintendo made always had these adapter for something, the Gamecube had one for the online capabilities... it's not impossible for the Wii to upgrade it when it starts to take off.... speculation of course, but either way, I like what the Wii offers compared to the others.

[bishop]

i wonder how much exposure you've had to the others...

[Cephus]

This time, the only console I bought was a Wii, simply because both the PS3 and X360 were trying to throw everything including the kitchen sink into their systems and don't recognize that a lot of people want a GAME SYSTEM, not a full entertainment center. Add to that the fact that neither the PS3 nor the X360 have had any decent games and most of the games they were putting out looked and acted like games on their old systems.

I was skeptical of the Wii controllers (and I still hate the damn name, they should have stayed with the Revolution), but in practice they work very well and if you still like the Gamecube remotes, you can use those instead. The best part about the Wii is that they have been putting out a lot of good games and continue to do so across all genre lines. Sure, I may not care about fitness games, but if you did, you couldn't find them on any other system.

People get too worked up over eye candy frankly, what difference does it make if the game looks perfectly real? It's a GAME! It's all about the gameplay which frankly sucks on most of the PS3/X360 games, that is if you can stop your X360 from bursting into flames.

[Nemiroff]

it is also true, thank you cephus, those systems are like video game/entertainment system/almost complete computers. the processing power has to process alot more then just graphics and AI, its got a huge workload. The Wii's beauty is in its simplicity, it can handle its tasks with basic hardware with no difficulty.

The AI is great, In Dragon ball Z the enemies throw in all the many different moves at the right time, and respond to mine very well, and thats on normal. Metroid has great AI, and most of the games dont even need AI, like trauma center.

Uncharted does look good, and i wish i could play the new elder scrolls, but that last one would be WAY more fun on the wii

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Cephus People get too worked up over eye candy frankly, what difference does it make if the game looks perfectly real? It's a GAME! It's all about the gameplay which frankly sucks on most of the PS3/X360 games, that is if you can stop your X360 from bursting into flames.

Absolutely. Gameplay makes the game, not graphics. Look at the top games of ALL TIME - things like Tetris, Pac-Man, Super Mario Brothers, etc. Those games didn't sell millions because of incredible graphics, they sold because of fantastic and revolutionary gameplay.

Oh, and PC Gaming FTW!

[bishop]

have any of you guys even played the ones i mentioned?

i for one have played the wii games you've mentioned. they're good, but aren't better than the 360 games. even my brother, a wii owner, agrees.

[Osborn F Enready]

I am a desktop guy myself. I like the options of a desktop for tailoring to my needs regarding power, graphics, controls, etc.

[Praxius]

Quote by: bishop i wonder how much exposure you've had to the others...

Enough to know I hated the overall feel of the PS2 (The PS1 wasn't that great either) and the X-Box wasn't anything to write home about, even if you could put hard drives in it. Worst controller ever, and the N64's was better then the X-Box's.

Quite honestly I seen some of the games for the PS3 and 360, but honestly, they ruined me already with the PS1-2 and XB....

And and the price of their new systems? They gotta be mad in the ass for those prices.