The Nintendo Revolution

[bishop]

what do the old systems have to do with this thread??

as far as prices go, if you have the money, it doesn't really matter. i had the money, as did everyone else i know who owns a 360.

[Nemiroff]

Well if you have the money, then it don't matter, but if you don't, then it matters a lot. The Wii was released at 250, literally half the price of the other two and with the promise of better gameplay. The gameplay is great in the few good games they have out, and there are a lot of good games that are announced, check out no more heroes.

Either way first person games suck with an analog regardless how pretty it looks, anyone who is used to both that and a mouse will tell you that, but the Wii remote is the one thing better then a mouse

[Praxius]

Quote by: bishop what do the old systems have to do with this thread?? as far as prices go, if you have the money, it doesn't really matter. i had the money, as did everyone else i know who owns a 360.

I was relating the previous generations because they have influenced my opinion on the new generations. I've seen nothing in the new generations of the same brands that makes me change my views.

And if you have the money, sure, get them.... but Back in the day consoles never cost as much as they do now.

I could justify the prices being so high if they were an equivilant to a PC in being able to do much of what you can do on a PC.... but all the consoles, including the Wii are game consoles primarily, no matter what other little tid bits you add onto them.... they are more limited then a PC, therefore I don't see why they should cost almost as much as one.

PC's have the cabability to be upgraded much easier then a console, so why be stuck paying so much for a console which is limited in it's ability to be upgraded easily? Sure you can throw a few new hard drives in a few of them..... but what about graphics card, CPU, Ram, etc?

For me personally, I buy games for my PC, and my consoles are for killing time and enjoyment away from the PC..... so if the Wii can fill that void in a satisfactory manner and at a good price in comparison, why not?

If I want a high graphic intense and involving game that requires a lot of CPU power and RAM, then I'll get it on my PC.... if I want something original like the Wii controls, and to play some of my favorite games and some new ones on the old skool TV, then the Wii suits what I want.

I mean, if I didn't have a PC, chances are I might see an interest in buying the 360 or PS3.... but I don't, so I won't.

I mean, it's just my own preference, it's not like I'm gonna get pissy or offended if someone likes the other consoles, lol. I'm just explaining why I like the Wii.

I guess I've been a Nintendo guy for too long

[bishop]

heh, i think it's funny how nintendo's re-releasing old games for the wii - just so that they can be played with the new controller.. resident evil 4, ocinara of time, ssx... recycling old games is revolutionary? not in my eyes. for the most part, the only truly new games are coming out from nintendo, where they're simply recycling the same decade+ old franchises.

the gameplay is far from perfect from my experiences.. if you have a stratch you need to itch and forget to pause, you could mess yourself up royally. and the damn twitching that's nearly inescapable.. wanna just put the controller down and take a piss? be careful..

[bishop]

playing on a pc usually means using your relatively small monitor, sitting at a desk, usually in the dark corner where most people locate their computer areas..

with the console, on the other hand, i have it on my big ol' hdtv, hooked up to the stereo - where i can kick back in my lazy boy chair and play wirelessly.

different strokes for different folks.. i'm not suggesting anyone buy something they can't afford - i'm questioning the notion that the wii is as revolutionary as some would believe. in terms of gameplay, yes - in terms of games, no.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Nemiroff Well if you have the money, then it don't matter, but if you don't, then it matters a lot. The Wii was released at 250, literally half the price of the other two and with the promise of better gameplay. The gameplay is great in the few good games they have out, and there are a lot of good games that are announced, check out no more heroes. Either way first person games suck with an analog regardless how pretty it looks, anyone who is used to both that and a mouse will tell you that, but the Wii remote is the one thing better then a mouse

Agreed.... I hate playing FPS on a console controller.... the only FPS I was impressed by it's controls on a console was the Metroid Prime series on the GC.... my god I was impressed. Mouse and Keyboard is hard to beat imo.... but the Wii remote does look promising, as I have yet to play a FPS with it.

[Praxius]

Quote by: bishop playing on a pc usually means using your relatively small monitor, sitting at a desk, usually in the dark corner where most people locate their computer areas.. with the console, on the other hand, i have it on my big ol' hdtv, hooked up to the stereo - where i can kick back in my lazy boy chair and play wirelessly. different strokes for different folks.. i'm not suggesting anyone buy something they can't afford - i'm questioning the notion that the wii is as revolutionary as some would believe. in terms of gameplay, yes - in terms of games, no.

Not trying to argue here, but for my PC I have it built so that I have it attached to my TV, plus I have a PS2 style controller for it, so if I want to play a game like a console on TV with my PC, it's possible.

[bishop]

when you're at your pc, are you still sitting at a desk, or lounging on some sofa/lazy boy chair?

it's good you have yours set up like that. i don't think it would work for me, as the wife would be mighty pissed off if i tied up both the computer and tv at the same time. the separation is ideal in my case. if i want to play games, she gets to use the computer, or smaller tv in our bedroom. alternatively, if she's watching her girly shows, i can do the same.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: bishop playing on a pc usually means using your relatively small monitor, sitting at a desk, usually in the dark corner where most people locate their computer areas..

That's a symptom of your setup, not of the system. It's just as easy to locate a PC in a more comfortable spot. There's nothing preventing you from making a nice comfortable PC gaming area - I have done it a lot.

Quote by: bishop as far as prices go, if you have the money, it doesn't really matter. i had the money, as did everyone else i know who owns a 360.

Well if you have the money, even a half-decent PC will be better in every way than a console, and if you really have the money, a purpose-built gaming PC will blow the doors off of a console - they're not even in the same league.

[Praxius]

I can go on the couch or on the computer.... but for the most part, I do prefer to play on the monitor more then the TV, because the monitor has better resolution. I have a big TV but it's not HD.

[bishop]

i also play on the pc, albeit to a very limited degree (texas hold 'em). i don't like having the screen so close to my face. but that said, i've always preferred playing games on consoles to pc's.. and, playing with friends on a computer monitor was done, but was hardly as enjoyable as on the console.

*remembers the old days of super mario cart, tekken, nhl hockey...*

have any of you played any of the games i mentioned above? i've played the wii games you mentioned (save the surgery game), but the controller aside, i don't see them redefining existing genres or creating new genres.. the fact that nintendo has decided to recycle old games to fit them to the new controller is proof in the pudding imo.

[Praxius]

I haven't played any of the news games on the other systems yet because nobody I know has any other systems. Three of my cousins and my aunt/uncle all have Wii's.

But on the flip side to your comment, I don't see anything the 360 or PS3 brings which is revolutionary either, except more hardware jammed into them to make them look pretty. The controlls all look the same as before, minus I hear the PS3 has a joystick you can tilt for flying games and such..... nowhere near what the Wii remote can do.

In my opinion the Wii's remote alone is what I considder revolutionary, as it brings a whole new way of approching gameplay and adding further human interaction to it.

The other two are just the same old consoles with upgraded graphics and cpu, nothing more.

The fact that the Wii beat out both consoles in sales this past year last I checked...

but for comparison:

Gizmo Cafe Blog : Xbox 360, Wii, PS3 – Three Game Console Profiles

Microsoft Xbox 360 Cost: $399 Standard Issue: Hard drive, two free games, wireless controller, headset Top Games: Gears of War, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter Marketing Target: Hardcore (online) gamers, home theater enthusiasts Economic Synopsis: The Microsoft Xbox 360 is a powerful machine. Although it launched a full year ahead of Sony’s PlayStation 3, it can match the competition in graphics and just about anything else. That will cost the gamer 400 big ones, and to get online to partake in some trash-talking Gears of War, players will need to shell out an additional $50 a year. It’s not the most expensive way to game right now, but at the moment all those dollars get the hardcore gamers - those interested in brilliant graphics, proven gameplay elements and fantastic online support - the best experience possible. Big Draw: Although it’ll cost you, Microsoft’s Xbox Live online community is unparalleled by the competition. It’s easy to get online, even easier to find a match and pretty much a given that a seventeen-year-old dishwasher will school you in NHL 07. In addition, the $199 HD DVD add-on is a sensible choice for upgrading to high definition movies. Big Flaw: Economically, it doesn’t add up so well. The other two systems, although offering far inferior support, have free online communities. Beyond that, aside from graphics and proven gameplay, the Xbox 360 doesn’t really try anything new. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sony PlayStation 3 Cost: NOW $499 (while supplies last) Standard Issue: 60 GB hard drive (under the hood), wireless controller Top Games: Resistance: Fall of Man, Need for Speed: Carbon, Motorstorm Marketing: Hardcore gamers, home theater enthusiasts Economic Synopsis: Believe it or not, the astronomically-priced PlayStation 3 does offer its own freakish bargain. For those willing to shell out the money - and those faithful that titles greater than (shudder) Need for Speed: Carbon will arrive - the PS3 certainly does offer a boatload of technology. For one, there’s the sheer power; the Cell processor ensures that games will look fantastic on this console for years. Second, the internal Blu-ray player is worth $1,000 itself, so if you’re interested in high definition movies and gaming, look no further. Big Draw: Undoubtedly, a history of gaming excellence and the inclusion of Blu-ray. Sony has “pwned” the console market for years, and there’s little doubt it will continue the glory as 2007 progresses. Also, Blu-ray offers phenomenally crisp images and its inclusion here makes the system a real bargain (believe it or not). Big Flaw: Right now, no games, no glory. That isn’t surprising for a launch system, but considering the sharing of key exclusives (Grand Theft Auto IV, Assassin’s Creed) with Xbox 360, the future may not be the glowing paradise Sony fanboys are hoping for. Unfortunately, the only buyers right now are the freakishly faithful and those interested in Blu-ray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nintendo Wii Cost: $249 Standard Issue: “Wiimote”, Motion Sensitivity Bar, Nunchuk, Wii Sports Top Games: Wii Sports, Zelda: Twilight Princess, Warioware: Smooth Moves Marketing: Casual gamers Economic Synopsis: For gamers who want to try something new and simply aren’t interested in making a game console the center of their home theater, the Wii is a great bet. It’s best placed in an already-equipped home theater or bedroom (high definition not required since the Wii is 480p). However, if you’re looking to build a gaming-oriented home theater for as little as possible, the Wii isn’t such a bargain. Unlike the PlayStation 3 and Microsoft Xbox 360, it offers no high resolution playback, be it in Zelda or Mission Impossible III. With regards to the latter, the Wii is so directly intended for gaming that it won’t even play standard DVDs. Ouch. Big Draw: Duh, the motion sensitive gameplay. In case you haven’t heard, swing the Wiimote, swing the bat onscreen. It’s simple, often doesn’t require great athleticism and appeals to the casual player far more than Halo 2 marathoners. Big Flaw: If we’re approaching this from a home theater angle, the Wii is a very poor choice. The $249 gets you no DVD playback and no high definition. That’s not exceptionally economical, unless you’re completely won over by the “flick-the-wrist” gameplay Nintendo is offering.

Wii Overtakes 360 in Global Sales news from 1UP.com

Not many would have predicted it a year ago, least of all that it would happen this fast: The Financial Times reports that the Wii has surpassed Microsoft's Xbox 360 in global sales. It's the first time in 17 years -- during the dominate 16 bit days of the SNES -- that Nintendo sits at the top spot of the console market. The report is based on sales figures from Enterbrain in Japan, NPD Group in the US and GfK of Germany, which tracks European sales. Sales figures from each console's launch date through the end of July (and the end of August in Japan) were added up, with the Wii just barely edging out the 360: 9 million for the Wii, 8.9 million for the 360, and 3.7 million for the PlayStation 3. That's with the 360 having a head-start of a full year. The Wii, in fact, hasn't even been out a full year. Nintendo surpassed Sony in global market share in July. Analysts in the story attribute the success to a cheaper price tag, the 360's weak presence in the Japanese market, and the fact that Nintendo's sales continued to soar during the summer while the 360 and PS3 sagged. It'll be very interesting to see how all three companies spin the news when the August NPD numbers come out.

I guess it all boils down to what you want out of your console and how much you are willing to pay for it.

[bishop]

Quote by: praxius But on the flip side to your comment, I don't see anything the 360 or PS3 brings which is revolutionary either, except more hardware jammed into them to make them look pretty. The controlls all look the same as before, minus I hear the PS3 has a joystick you can tilt for flying games and such..... nowhere near what the Wii remote can do.

have you picked up on the distinction i'm making between revolutionary gameplay vs. revolutionary games?

in terms of gameplay, i agree that the wii is definitely a major change. whether or not it's a change that moves the entire industry is yet to be determined, but it is a major change nonetheless.

in terms of games, i haven't seen anything revolutionary from the wii in terms of remodeling existing genres or inventing new genres. on the other hand, the 360 is pushing the envelope as far as games are concerned.

these are just opinions of course, but both my brother and myself have had the opportunity to get into both systems and we came to the same conclusions.

as wii owners downplay the significance of graphics and cpu processing capacity, i downplay the novelty of the wii's controller. personally, i never had a problem with the normal controller - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Jayjhis]

If I hear one more word about the Wii being revolutionary in making people actually be "active" while playing, I will probably scream. You get more of a workout from pornography than the Wii.

The only nice feature about it, in my opinion, is that it allows you to get all nostalgic with the old-school NES games.

[Cephus]

Quote by: bishop as wii owners downplay the significance of graphics and cpu processing capacity, i downplay the novelty of the wii's controller. personally, i never had a problem with the normal controller - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just because it ain't broke doesn't mean it can't be made better and since the Wii gives you the opportunity to use whatever kind of controller you want, what's your point? The Wii controller absolutely makes it possible to do things that simply cannot be done well with another controller, that's an incontrovertible fact.

As far as the significance of graphics and CPU power, they really aren't that big a deal, except for the tech geeks that only care about how fast something is, not what anyone does with it. What difference does it make if the graphics are amazing and the CPU is 10x faster than everyone else if your games suck?

[bishop]

graphics and CPU power result in better AI, more complex events occurring at the same time, etc...

[Praxius]

Quote by: bishop graphics and CPU power result in better AI, more complex events occurring at the same time, etc...

I dispute that notion....

I went and bought Battlefield 2 and it's expansions not too long ago. Not only is the game arcade-like with no realism in it whatsoever, it's a resource hog and just to run it decently for gameplay, the graphics have to be low as hell.

Now I have a game about 5 years older then that one, Soldier of Fortune 2.... it's still played online today, the graphics and details are not only better, smooth and more realistic, but takes less time to load up and less resources.

BF2:


SoF2:


Even Half-Life 2 uses less resources then BF2 and looks better:



More cpu and ram requirements doesn't nessicarily mean a better game. Going through Animation you're taught how to optimize your characters so you can add other details elsewhere for maximum realism. I think animators today have gotten a little carried away with resources and forgot how to do things right.

[Cephus]

Quote by: bishop graphics and CPU power result in better AI, more complex events occurring at the same time, etc...

No, it gives you the ABILITY to have more complex events happening at the same time, but if the programmers don't do it, then it's irrelevant. Most games simply never take advantage of the machine's capabilities and when they do... the Xbox 360 explodes into flame.

[bishop]

you must not have seen any good games running on the 360 then. toss COD4 or gears on and take a look.

[Nemiroff]

The wii has amazing revolutionary games,

trauma center, does everyone just ignore it everytime I post that title, no game has ever resembled it, it fits into no category, and is incredibly addictive, everyone who has picked it up loves it, from my girlfriend, to my hardcore gamer friends.

Dragon ball z is the most original fighting game ever made since the format was established. And with the wii controls its the most fun I've had in a while. And compared to the previous wii dbz, the controls are so much better I think they're starting to figure out what they're doing.

Metroid gave me a taste of what the wii can do with a fps. And the wifi games are starting to come out.

The upcoming games show promise, unfortunately I guess they were hell bent on milking the stupid mini game games.