New Terminator Trilogy - I can't wait

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Praxius You know what I don't get about T3? In T2, they recovered an arm and a chip from the T-800's head in T1 to continue on T2, which made perfect sense. Why didn't they just prolong the date when the nuclear war occured, due to no longer having the chip in the T-800? Think about it..... they still had an arm stuck in the gears at the end of T2 from when the T-1000 jammed it in there during the fight. Although crushed and damaged, why didn't they recover that arm and continued their production and development? That way the T3 we know now could have actually been connected to the other two movies and the ending in T3 would have made much more sense.

There was actually a comic that came out after T2 that discussed just that.

[ZNFYRH]

Some movie info on these, since I was really into the whole series...

T3 was not meant to be part of the story.

James Cameron wanted it to end with T2. He wanted to show that the future is not set... that you can change the future. To him, the destruction of Cyberdyne at the end of T2 was the end of it.

Producers wanted to make T3. Cameron would only do it if Arnold was in it, Arnold would only do it if Cameron directed.

That's why you got such a crappy story, and such a sissy John Connor. Linda Hamilton refused to do another one, rumor has it that she liked the way T2 ended and didn't like that T3 says that fate happens anyway, it's just delayed.

[GHook93]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Some movie info on these, since I was really into the whole series... T3 was not meant to be part of the story. James Cameron wanted it to end with T2. He wanted to show that the future is not set... that you can change the future. To him, the destruction of Cyberdyne at the end of T2 was the end of it. Producers wanted to make T3. Cameron would only do it if Arnold was in it, Arnold would only do it if Cameron directed. That's why you got such a crappy story, and such a sissy John Connor. Linda Hamilton refused to do another one, rumor has it that she liked the way T2 ended and didn't like that T3 says that fate happens anyway, it's just delayed.

Wow, I might be the only oen excited for the new trilogy! While I did think T3 was vastly inferior to the first 2 I didn't think it was that bad. I liked how they ended it, with showing how the war began!

[Praxius]

Quote by: GHook93 Wow, I might be the only oen excited for the new trilogy! While I did think T3 was vastly inferior to the first 2 I didn't think it was that bad. I liked how they ended it, with showing how the war began!

The thing I didn't like about it is how it just didn't really explain any connection to the previous two movies.... just "You can not change your fate" or whatever, therefore it was going to happen one way or another.

Could have been done a little better imo.... but was still a good movie... just the lower end of the three thus far.

[Cephus]

Quote by: GHook93 Wow, I might be the only oen excited for the new trilogy! While I did think T3 was vastly inferior to the first 2 I didn't think it was that bad. I liked how they ended it, with showing how the war began!

There was never supposed to be a war, the point of the story is that humans are in control of their own fate. By making the war inevitable, people might as well just be phoning it in, they can't change anything, they can't make it better, they're just along for the ride.

[ZNFYRH]

GHook93

Yeah, Praxius and Cephus have it right.

The whole point was about controlling fate.

And then T3 screwed it.

They tried to weasel out of it by saying that Kyle Reese fathering John Connor would have been a paradox if the war never happened, but they fell on their faces.

It would have been better to not do T3, do the Sarah Connor show anyway to show the time after T2, and do the new trilogy to show what led UP TO the T1 movie.

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Praxius The thing I didn't like about it is how it just didn't really explain any connection to the previous two movies.... just "You can not change your fate" or whatever, therefore it was going to happen one way or another. Could have been done a little better imo.... but was still a good movie... just the lower end of the three thus far.

You know, that stuff was irritating but it wasn't as god awful as the entire Katherine Brewster plot. It was like "Drrr... let's add in an important plot point not referenced once by people who should know about her and act as if its completely reasonable."

Nick Stahl didn't even have to act wimpy. They already piss on John Connor's mythos by the fact that he's somehow inexplicably killed by a model 101 because it looked like the terminator from T2 when they should have encountered numerous looking Aghh-nold models by the time they send the first one back in time.

Quote by: ZNF Yeah, Praxius and Cephus have it right. The whole point was about controlling fate. And then T3 screwed it. They tried to weasel out of it by saying that Kyle Reese fathering John Connor would have been a paradox if the war never happened, but they fell on their faces. It would have been better to not do T3, do the Sarah Connor show anyway to show the time after T2, and do the new trilogy to show what led UP TO the T1 movie.

You see, I didn't really see them pissing on the "Future is not set" concept since I took John Connor's paradoxical birth to indicate that we were dealing with a multi-verse and not a single time-line. Ala, the timelines are similar but not exactly the same, so you send someone back in time and by changing things slightly you have inadvertently created a new timeline by changing events. You don't actually change things in a preset future. However, the future of the new timeline is changed. Though it could already have different factors changing it in the first place. Such as leaving a robotic skeletal arm in a factory for instance. These things would and should have consequences. Nevermind all the people that saw the T-1000 not including any cameras etc in the mill, the mall, and the cyberdyne building.

[ZNFYRH]

Chaos

That was something similar to what they tried to rationalize when they did T3... that they were mucking with time and that things get funky when that happens.

They also tried the whole "some events in history can't be prevented because they are too significant" thing. A lot of the additional works based around the Terminator universe try to explore it. In the end, they just fall short of the fact that the point was that fate can be changed.

[Praxius]

Yeah, it's kind of a PO when they sent one guy in T1... then surprise! they sent another terminator in T2 to stop the T1000, oh but you hear no hints of that....

Then T3... Surprise! you sent another one.

Jeez I dunno... messing with time once is something to worry about when doing it.... messing with it three time or more all for the sake of stopping one guy, also risking altering the machine's own future which they possibly couldn't predict.....

or can they?

[ZNFYRH]

The funny thing is in T1, he says that they won, smashed the defense grid, and found the time travel device.

But the machines still sent 2 more Terminators?

I have always wondered how much time passed between when Skynet sent the "bad" Terminators... because why didn't it just send the plasma chick in the beginning?

[Cephus]

Quote by: ZNFYRH The funny thing is in T1, he says that they won, smashed the defense grid, and found the time travel device. But the machines still sent 2 more Terminators? I have always wondered how much time passed between when Skynet sent the "bad" Terminators... because why didn't it just send the plasma chick in the beginning?

That's a good point. If Skynet had access to the time travel device, why didn't it just send something back that would set up Skynet before John was born?

If, as the Terminators seem to know, the future is inevitable, why do they keep trying to change it?

[ZNFYRH]

Could be that Skynet knew it's existence depended on sending a T-800 back in time in the first place.

[Chaossaber314]

The PS2/Xbox game Dawn of Fate tried to explain the time difference.

Ok, smashing their defense grid that was located I believe in Norad would have eliminated the setup they had on the ground. However, Skynet is a defense satellite or series of satellites I suppose. So when they finally smashed the defense grid and sent Kyle Reese back in time right after the T-800 they didn't think things through and realize that Skynet wasn't really defeated yet... or felt it was contained in space.

So Skynet rebuilds and the war resumes. Seeing that Skynet is sending another machine back in time they do the same once more.

This would account for why Judgement Day was August 29, 1997 and yet it shows them still continuing the war in like 2032 or whenever they said.

Also, seeing how the Terminators are built with their auxiliary system, it makes sense that Skynet would build itself a similar backup strategy.

Another possibility is that John Connor was unaware of the T-1000 as of the Terminator 1 timeline, and only sent Kyle Reese back since he was aware that he was his father. However, sending Kyle Reese back changed things in the future prompting the events of Terminator 2 which would make John Connor distinctly aware that he was going to need the T-800 to protect him. Essentially, the events of each movie have changed things for the next.

It would also explain why tech-com looks a whole hell of a lot more organized in T2 than T1.

Whenever something doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I think back to the Simpsons episode with the toaster.

*Kyle Reese smashes a mosquito and suddenly aliens have conquered skynet in the future.*



Another thing I always thought of as an ironic twist would be that the John Connor depicted in the movies is not THE John Connor responsible for sending Kyle Reese back in time. Kyle Reese goes back in time, knocks up Sarah Connor and since she is pregnant, is physically incapable of producing the real John Connor when his real natural father would have appeared around or slightly after the same time. So this kid is forced to assume the role of someone who he never was meant to become.

Another humorous possibility. Sarah Connor gets around and is already pregnant at the beginning of Terminator 1.

[Chaossaber314]

Spoilers-






So the Sarah Connor Chronicles has gone time-travel crazy.

At this point we have 8 new people from the future and speculation of countless other Terminator sleepers.

The Substitute Teacher T-800
Cameron - Summer Glau Terminator of Unknown Model
2007 Feigning Death Terminator T-800
Bank worker who hid Time machine parts in safety deposit boxes
4 Resistance fighters storing weapons / money.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Spoilers- So the Sarah Connor Chronicles has gone time-travel crazy. At this point we have 8 new people from the future and speculation of countless other Terminator sleepers. The Substitute Teacher T-800 Cameron - Summer Glau Terminator of Unknown Model 2007 Feigning Death Terminator T-800 Bank worker who hid Time machine parts in safety deposit boxes 4 Resistance fighters storing weapons / money.

I only caught the 2nd episode, can't say I was too impressed, but I will check out the next few episode. If it stays on the same path, I am going to duck out of it!

[ZNFYRH]

Yeah... the show got mixed reviews.

I was told it scrapped the whole Terminator 3 thing, but if it did, then the end of Terminator 2 should have ended the whole thing.

[Cephus]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I was told it scrapped the whole Terminator 3 thing, but if it did, then the end of Terminator 2 should have ended the whole thing.

It's an alternate history to what happened in T3. Blowing up Cyberdyne didn't end the Skynet project, it just delayed it. There is someone else, currently unknown, who picked up the research and they'll have to be dealt with as the series goes on.

I did like how they referenced T3 with the "Sarah dies of cancer" thing and then proceeded to change it entirely. Instead of dying in 1997 as she did in the movie, she would have in 2005, then jumped time and is going to the doctor to get the cancer taken care of.

[GHook93]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Yeah... the show got mixed reviews. I was told it scrapped the whole Terminator 3 thing, but if it did, then the end of Terminator 2 should have ended the whole thing.

I don't think they did. They stated that Sarah dies of cancer in the movie and also in the show. I think with the time-travel in the show, the adverted what happened in T3

[ZNFYRH]

So Sarah Connor travels in time too?

She "jumped time" and got her cancer cured?

This is already too screwed up.

[GHook93]

I have to say I am not impressed. For example, the future scenes were horrible. They should have been cut from at the editing floor. If bullets won't penetrate the terminators skeleton, then why do they have them! Absolutely stupid. Why do they consistently make John Connor a wimpy figure? The future savior of mankind should be at least a little more manly, no?

However, I find myself watching every episode hoping it gets better. Go figure!