The not so great generation

[notworthabean]

Not-So-Great Generation

The boomers will be best remembered for their self-glorification. by William Kristol 11/26/2007, Volume 013, Issue 11 Q: If the World War II generation was the "greatest generation," what is the Vietnam War generation? A: I don't think the full judgment of history is in yet. There is certainly greatness in the '60s generation. They changed our attitudes about race in America, which was long overdue. --Tom Brokaw, interviewed in the November 19 U. S. News & World Report, on his new book, Boom! Voices of the Sixties. Whoa! The '60s generation changed our attitudes about race in America? Rosa Parks, Bayard Rustin, and Martin Luther King Jr.--were they from the Vietnam war generation? Earl Warren, Lyndon Baines Johnson, and Hubert Humphrey? For that matter, James Chaney, Michael Schwerner, and Andrew Goodman, murdered on June 21, 1964, in Mississippi? None of these was a member of the " '60s generation." None was a boomer. There really was greatness in the "greatest generation." It fought and won World War II, then came home to achieve widespread prosperity and overcome segregation while seeing the Cold War through to a successful conclusion. But the greatest generation had one flaw, its greatest flaw, you might say: It begat the baby boomers. The most prominent of the boomers spent their youth scorning those of their compatriots who fought communism, while moralizing and posturing at no cost to themselves. They went on to enjoy the benefits of their parents' labors, sacrificed little, and produced nothing particularly notable. But the boomers were unparalleled when it came to self-glorification, a talent they began developing as teenagers and have continued to improve up to this day. They were also good at bamboozling their parents, and members of the "silent generation" like Tom Brokaw, to be overly deferential to them--even to the point of giving them credit for things they didn't do.

Read the whole thing.

I have to say he makes a good case in here against the boomers as a whole (not that all boomers are bad of course). Hopefully my generation lives up to his hopes.

[Praxius]

No generation is better then another for many reasons.

Was the WWII generation the greatests because they won the war?

Well wasn't it the same generation which started it?

Same thing for the 60's and the baby boomers.... besides creating the hippy generation and the whole concept of "Make love not war" which to me was in the respects for their parents which fought for freedom and peace for them to have. WWI was supposed to be "The War to End All Wars".... so I imagine they thought much more about WWII and most back then I imagined figured another war started anywhere would quickly start up the same nightmares they were told by their parents..... so many fought to not fight.

Then you have the Baby boomers and such agreeing with the government to start fighting in an unjust war, just after the Korean War, just after WWII.... the country was blindly following what the government was telling them and they did what they were told (Sound familiar?)

There was a large amount of change in the 60's, not just in culture, not just in races, not just in drugs, but music, arts, entertainment.... everything.

Generation X is what is kinda responsible for the life we are living right now, today....

Think about it... it's kinda a leap frog thing going on in our lives:

• WWII occurs... allies win... everybody has sex, baby boom.

• Vietnam Occurs.... baby boomers get all hippy and protest over many things in this quagmire.

• 70's come along and the children of the baby boomers are embarassed of pictures of their naked parents smoking hash at a big concert covered in mud.... so they bring in the Yuppie age.

• 70's generation spawns my generation of the X's I believe is how it goes.... and we're embarrassed of the Disco age, so the 80's begins.

• our culture creates the 90's and alternative, rap scenes, internet, and a bunch more wars, all the while we sink back into trusting the government and what they tell us all the time.... forgetting the hippies.

• Enter the new melinium and familiar wars fought for similar principles as in the 60's......

The only problem now, is that all the Neo-Hippies are stuck on the internet and don't know how to apply talk into action.

That's the problem this time with our culture today. Where are the hippies to protest the wars?

We have the large black organizations for equal rights again.... so where are all the hippies?

[Osborn F Enready]

A lot of the modern hippies are already in jail for protesting, or violating unjust laws.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: Praxius That's the problem this time with our culture today. Where are the hippies to protest the wars?

The kids are still incubating. In three more years, a savior will change the music, and lay waste to the Brittany Spears robots and the old ways.

[notworthabean]

Quote by: Compugasm The kids are still incubating. In three more years, a savior will change the music, and lay waste to the Brittany Spears robots and the old ways.

Yea keep dreaming.

Anyway the protest leaders are here just like they were in the 60s, and indeed in all generations. They are the tools who want to skip the usualy pre-reqs for power and grab them. the problem is without a draft the majority of their fellow students aren't going to do shit to help them gain that power.

[another day]

I think it's true about anti war people being stuck on the internet and forgetting what to do to cause real change.

[HelioPrime]

^ So true.

I've heard it told before were the first generation now who won't achieve as much on average as our parents.

[Praxius]

Quote by: HelioPrime ^ So true. I've heard it told before were the first generation now who won't achieve as much on average as our parents.

Depends on the achievements you speak of. Socially and technologically that can be debated.... but each generation has its goods and bads.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: another day I think it's true about anti war people being stuck on the internet and forgetting what to do to cause real change.

A lot of us are just to disenfranchised to be able to make an appearance.


Busy chasing money in one of their many jobs.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Milton Bradley A lot of us are just to disenfranchised to be able to make an appearance. Busy chasing money in one of their many jobs.

I just do not want to march alone, and I guess a lot of people feel the same way, or they thing voting will change things (though voting alone never can "make" these things happen or go away).

And yes, a lot of people have been busy mowing lawns or going to work.

Grandpa h.

[Sandy]

Volconvo is a forum known more for issuing labels on people than for a fix. Every once in a while I will receive an email inviting me to return and debate. I'm sick to death of labels being thrown around as if we are simply a videol game with someone keeping scores.

I am a member of the great generation and remember the crowds lining up to inlist to fight our enemies after Pearl Harbor. My uncles went into the infantry and the older two joined the seabees. We had town hall meetings with our Congress Reps demanding to know what we could do to take down our enemies quickly. Even my girl scout troop gathered aluminum and rolled bandages. When the little blue stamps were sold we lined up to sell them. When gas was couponed we rode our bikes with our baskets to shop for others.

We had no television and only Conkite giving us news updates in Europe and Ernie Pyle reporting from the Pacific. Every Saturday afternoon we went to the Majestic Theater in Santa Monica to watch "MovieTone News."

When the casualties stared being reported in our City, we gathered up unused coupons for the grieving families so they could have funerals for this sons and husbands.

We won the damn wars in record time and we celebrated our victory as a nation. What we did not do was take Ike's words of wisdom about building a Military Industrial Complex so we were prepared for the next war that came almost immediately.

Our nation went down hill almost immediately. We are to the point that the citizens are divided on how much Constitution we must salvage. Most have never read the document but listen to the news talking heads and judge from that.

In the 60s we saw a nation ravaged in drugs. Many Americans lost their kids to drugs, not war. You all must be very proud that your drugs are now killers of the spirit and the body. Not a day goes by without a news story about a bunch of kids doing drugs, having sex and both leading to murder. The war on drugs was made for you all. Putting the government on the look out for drugs only made the government rich.

My generation spawned your generation and obviously we did not instill a love of America or self control. We sent you to Sunday School and you saw an out to your sins. You only had to get on your knees and pray and everything you did was forgiven. You should be on your knees thanking God you were not part of my family.

[bishop]

the era of the "greatest" generation also saw the birth of the nanny state with FDR's programs.. then the baby boomers continued this lazy progression with LBJ and JFK..

each previous generation has handed the next generation some things that are good, and some that are bad.. apparently, people of older generations would like to think that they did a better job than younger generations. i don't really see one being markedly better than another, when you take the shades of grey into account.


personally, i view the supply-side cult (i.e. deficit spenders) as the worst - and these people span several generations. even worse now, because supply-siders also promote nanny state programs.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Sandy Volconvo is a forum known more for issuing labels on people than for a fix. Every once in a while I will receive an email inviting me to return and debate. I'm sick to death of labels being thrown around as if we are simply a videol game with someone keeping scores.

Then don't come back, block the emails, it's not hard to do.

I am a member of the great generation and remember the crowds lining up to inlist to fight our enemies after Pearl Harbor. My uncles went into the infantry and the older two joined the seabees. We had town hall meetings with our Congress Reps demanding to know what we could do to take down our enemies quickly. Even my girl scout troop gathered aluminum and rolled bandages. When the little blue stamps were sold we lined up to sell them. When gas was couponed we rode our bikes with our baskets to shop for others.

Remeber that your "Great Generation" which "Won" the war, was also the one which started the war.

We had no television and only Conkite giving us news updates in Europe and Ernie Pyle reporting from the Pacific. Every Saturday afternoon we went to the Majestic Theater in Santa Monica to watch "MovieTone News." When the casualties stared being reported in our City, we gathered up unused coupons for the grieving families so they could have funerals for this sons and husbands. We won the damn wars in record time and we celebrated our victory as a nation. What we did not do was take Ike's words of wisdom about building a Military Industrial Complex so we were prepared for the next war that came almost immediately. Our nation went down hill almost immediately. We are to the point that the citizens are divided on how much Constitution we must salvage. Most have never read the document but listen to the news talking heads and judge from that.

Agreed

In the 60s we saw a nation ravaged in drugs. Many Americans lost their kids to drugs, not war. You all must be very proud that your drugs are now killers of the spirit and the body. Not a day goes by without a news story about a bunch of kids doing drugs, having sex and both leading to murder. The war on drugs was made for you all. Putting the government on the look out for drugs only made the government rich.

That's a matter of perspective, as many of these so-called kids lost to drugs, were actually spearheads against the unjust war of Vietnam and how many were being drafted for a pointless war based on political points.

Remember, it was your government which introduced LSD into society to study it at that time.... those were the consiquences of those actions..... so if you want to blame anybody, blame the government and their flip flopping joke of a War on Drugs, which they started.

These people brought about thinking for yourself, the whole Make Love no War attitude, and it was the government which sent in the national guard to shoot student protests at a university.

Neither side was innocent in this situation for various reasons.

My generation spawned your generation and obviously we did not instill a love of America or self control. We sent you to Sunday School and you saw an out to your sins. You only had to get on your knees and pray and everything you did was forgiven. You should be on your knees thanking God you were not part of my family.

Thanks for the preaching on how horrible we all are.... I'm sure I'll take what you said to heart and change my entire life around now, thank you.

Your generation isn't anymore great then the next, and neither are we.... the moment people take themselves off their podiums and stop pointing fingers and blame, the moment change can be made.

I imagine I can tear a new one on your generation for all the negatives that occured during your time.... but what's the point?

I'm not on this planet to boost or defend my generation, I'm here to represent myself and my own abilities.

Remember, it's not my generation which got us to this point in our lives.... we're still waiting to take power and for the baby boomers to retire/die off so we can set things right to how we see it.

"Waiting for the World to Change"

[bishop]

Quote by: praxius Remeber that your "Great Generation" which "Won" the war, was also the one which started the war.

americans didn't start the war, they joined it in the case of germany and were forced into it in the case of japan/pearl harbor.... the phrase "greatest generation" is an american creation, meant to characterize americans who lived during that time.

[Praxius]

Quote by: bishop americans didn't start the war, they joined it in the case of germany and were forced into it in the case of japan/pearl harbor.... the phrase "greatest generation" is an american creation, meant to characterize americans who lived during that time.

I know... but there are a few errors to that claim.

#1 - A generation means those of a similar age around the globe imo... AKA a period of time in society.

#2 - The US wasn't the only country who fought against Nazi Germany, nor were the US the biggest contributing factor to the war's end, as the Soviets brought the Nazi's the worst defeats and bloodshed by comparison to any western battles. Without the Soviets in WWII, the situation could have been much different in the end. If anybody owns this claim it is the Soviets.

Hince those who claim to be a part of this "Greatest Generation" are completely clouded by their own hype to see the bigger picture of the truth. The fact that this was self proclaimed just shows the level of mentality which is similar to many other genrations, hince proves no other generation is greater then another, imo.

[Kamehameha34]

#2 - The US wasn't the only country who fought against Nazi Germany, nor were the US the biggest contributing factor to the war's end, as the Soviets brought the Nazi's the worst defeats and bloodshed by comparison to any western battles. Without the Soviets in WWII, the situation could have been much different in the end. If anybody owns this claim it is the Soviets.

The technical result would have been the same - victory for the allies - but it would have taken a little more time for the Americans do develop another atomic bomb.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Praxius No generation is better then another for many reasons.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Was the WWII generation the greatest because they won the war? Well wasn't it the same generation which started it?

I suspect that their fighting the second world war, the second "war to end all wars" had a lot to do with their being considered the greatest generation. Was it their generation that started it? Not necessarily. How old was Hitler when he rose to power? Churchill was certainly not of "the greatest generation" but of the generation prior to it; likewise FDR. The greatest generation was in its childhood during the depression.

Same thing for the 60's and the baby boomers.... besides creating the hippy generation and the whole concept of "Make love not war" which to me was in the respects for their parents which fought for freedom and peace for them to have. WWI was supposed to be "The War to End All Wars".... so I imagine they thought much more about WWII and most back then I imagined figured another war started anywhere would quickly start up the same nightmares they were told by their parents..... so many fought to not fight.

The baby boomers rebelled against society and, thus, were traitors! It wasn't just about an unjust war, it was about questioning everything just for the sake of questioning it. It bordered on anarchy.

Then you have the Baby boomers and such agreeing with the government to start fighting in an unjust war, just after the Korean War, just after WWII.... the country was blindly following what the government was telling them and they did what they were told (Sound familiar?)

But many of the baby boomers didn't agree with the government fighting an unjust war (if it really was unjust).

There was a large amount of change in the 60's, not just in culture, not just in races, not just in drugs, but music, arts, entertainment.... everything.

Examples of the rebellion of that twisted era.

Generation X is what is kinda responsible for the life we are living right now, today.... Think about it... it's kinda a leap frog thing going on in our lives: • WWII occurs... allies win... everybody has sex, baby boom. • Vietnam Occurs.... baby boomers get all hippy and protest over many things in this quagmire. • 70's come along and the children of the baby boomers are embarassed of pictures of their naked parents smoking hash at a big concert covered in mud.... so they bring in the Yuppie age. • 70's generation spawns my generation of the X's I believe is how it goes.... and we're embarrassed of the Disco age, so the 80's begins. • our culture creates the 90's and alternative, rap scenes, internet, and a bunch more wars, all the while we sink back into trusting the government and what they tell us all the time.... forgetting the hippies.

The first members of Generation X were born in the 1960s and graduated from high school in the early-mid 1980s (Generation X defies definition).

•Enter the new millennium and familiar wars fought for similar principles as in the 60's...... The only problem now, is that all the Neo-Hippies are stuck on the internet and don't know how to apply talk into action. That's the problem this time with our culture today. Where are the hippies to protest the wars? We have the large black organizations for equal rights again.... so where are all the hippies?

The neo-hippies aren't Generation X (well, perhaps not the older members of that generation) but, instead, Generation Y - the kids born starting in the early 1980s (or as early as the mid 1970s depending on whose definition you use) - aka the millennials.

Depending on whose definition you use, I'm at the tail end of the baby boomer generation or the head of Generation X - I was born in October 1963. I can't relate to the boomers because, well, a defining moment for them seems to be where one was when JFK was shot and, frankly, I was less than two months old and have no idea where I was. I started kindergarten in September 1968 and, so, I'm too young to remember Viet Nam. I do, however, remember the Iran Hostage Crisis, Charles and Diana's Wedding, Grenada, Iran-Contra, the fall of the Marcos regime (and Imelda Marcos' thousands of pairs of shoes) etc. So, I relate more to Generation X - the generation that gave us both yuppies and punk/goth.

[bishop]

Quote by: praxius #1 - A generation means those of a similar age around the globe imo... AKA a period of time in society.

that's a pretty poor definition in this case, because only americans call this (their) generation the "greatest"... i don't believe the germans refer to the nazis as the "greatest generation", and despite the japanese reluctance to own up to their past - i also doubt they refer to japanese colonialism/imperialism as their "greatest generation".. if we were solely talking about the word "generation" i'd agree with your definition - but the inclusion of this american phrase makes all the difference in the world.

Quote by: praxius #2 - The US wasn't the only country who fought against Nazi Germany, nor were the US the biggest contributing factor to the war's end, as the Soviets brought the Nazi's the worst defeats and bloodshed by comparison to any western battles. Without the Soviets in WWII, the situation could have been much different in the end. If anybody owns this claim it is the Soviets.

and this is all besides the point, and a bit off topic since this is an american-centric thread... i suspect the brits maybe even have their own phrase for the ww2 generation. maybe even the russians (i kind of doubt that though).

[Praxius]

Quote by: bishop that's a pretty poor definition in this case, because only americans call this (their) generation the "greatest"... i don't believe the germans refer to the nazis as the "greatest generation", and despite the japanese reluctance to own up to their past - i also doubt they refer to japanese colonialism/imperialism as their "greatest generation".. if we were solely talking about the word "generation" i'd agree with your definition - but the inclusion of this american phrase makes all the difference in the world.

I have heard many other countries refer to the greatest generation in their own cultures as well, not just exclusive to the US.

The subject header did not state this was exclusive to just the US population, if it was, then I would have had different responses.

The orignal post and article was stating information regarding to the 1960's and the baby boomers.... which there were baby boomers all over the globe during that time. There were also many involved countries and mixed opinions during the 60's in regards to not just the Vietnam War, but race and other cultural differences fought during those times..... which is what made me come to the conclusion this wasn't an isolated debate in regards to just the US.

I read examples in relation to what occured in the US during this time, but no exclusive points made to be directed to the US alone.

Perhaps clarification at the start next time would avoid this little mix up.... as the first line in the first post says "The boomers will be best remembered for their self-glorification" ~ Canada has boomers too, so do the Brits, and many other nations....

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Chancellor The baby boomers rebelled against society and, thus, were traitors! It wasn't just about an unjust war, it was about questioning everything just for the sake of questioning it. It bordered on anarchy.

Even that is a bit of a mischaracterization.


The hippies didn't rebel against "society", they rebelled against "contemporary American culture", and most of the feeings that fueled that rebellion were justifiable, still are.