The not so great generation

[bishop]

Quote by: praxius The orignal post and article was stating information regarding to the 1960's and the baby boomers.... which there were baby boomers all over the globe during that time. There were also many involved countries and mixed opinions during the 60's in regards to not just the Vietnam War, but race and other cultural differences fought during those times..... which is what made me come to the conclusion this wasn't an isolated debate in regards to just the US.

are you serious??

first off, bill kristol is a neocon, and neocons are known to believe that the universe revolves around the u.s...

second, the source is the weekly standard - a neocon publication that casts everything in an american-centric perspective.

third, the ENTIRE article is solely focused on the u.s. and its own people/past - and doesn't focus one iota on the people of other countries.

so, yes, this debate is isolated to the u.s. by virtue of the author, publication and the article itself... (not to mention that the phrase "greatest generation" is something that americans identify with fellow citizens who fought in ww2.)

[Milton Bradley]

I have to agree with Bishop, Bill Kristol is a notorious Neocon scoundrel, and Fox News pundit.


While he is big into commenting on foreign policy, generally, if your country is getting mentioned in publications, it's because you have resources they want, or he's recommending that bombs should be flying your way.

[Praxius]

Quote by: bishop are you serious?? first off, bill kristol is a neocon, and neocons are known to believe that the universe revolves around the u.s... second, the source is the weekly standard - a neocon publication that casts everything in an american-centric perspective. third, the ENTIRE article is solely focused on the u.s. and its own people/past - and doesn't focus one iota on the people of other countries. so, yes, this debate is isolated to the u.s. by virtue of the author, publication and the article itself... (not to mention that the phrase "greatest generation" is something that americans identify with fellow citizens who fought in ww2.)

Yeah I am serious, considdering I read what was supplied in the original post and the content provided. The original comment from the orignal poster was:

I have to say he makes a good case in here against the boomers as a whole (not that all boomers are bad of course). Hopefully my generation lives up to his hopes.

Boomers as a whole.... to me that would mean all the boomers.... if one said the Boomers of the US, then I'd understand where you are coming from.

From my understanding of the topic was that he was debating which generations were better, WWII or Boomers..... as from my own understanding of the situation in my own country, I have my own opinion on the matter.

If you want to interp the OP in some other fasion, knock yourself out, my points and opinions still stands.

If he said read his entire background and study within his opinions on US Boomers alone then I would have responded differently.

Since I don't follow this whoever he is, and I read the quote supplied, my original posts are valid. Don't like it? Sorry to say, that is life. You have one view on the thread, I have another..... I don't see how you get to dictate what the topic is to debate, when what you claim it to be, wasn't stated.

Is it supposed to be obvious? I don't live in the US, so no it's not. There are other people in this world besides those in the US. You want an isolated debate on the US, state so.

[bishop]

Quote by: praxius You want an isolated debate on the US, state so.

that wasn't the point, but i guess there's no possibility in getting through here...

anyway, back to the OP:

Quote by: kristol America's hopes for the future rest mostly with the 9/11 generation. Despite their unfortunate propensity so far to vote Democratic, these young men and women will, I believe, turn out to be far more impressive than we boomers who begat them. It would of course be a fitting fate, after all the soaring rhetoric about the boomers, if they turned out to be basically a parenthesis. They may go down in history as occupying space between the generation that won World War II and presided over a relatively successful second-half of the twentieth century, and the 9/11 generation that will deal with the threats the boomers neglected during that quintessential boomer decade, the '90s. It is the 9/11 generation that will have to construct and maintain a new American century.

this seems to have been kristol's entire point of the article. he's creating his own characterization, this "9/11 generation"... and from what he's saying, this generation is supposedly going to march on forward with the neocon mission - fighting wars all over the world in the "war on terror"...

PREVIEW: September 11, 2001 - April 9, 2003

Quote by: kristol But that era--in which the American stance was one of doubt, weakness, and retreat, in which we failed to affirm our most cherished principles or even stand up for ourselves--came to an end on September 11, 2001. The United States committed itself to defeating terror around the world. We committed ourselves to reshaping the Middle East, so the region would no longer be a hotbed of terrorism, extremism, anti-Americanism, and weapons of mass destruction. The first two battles of this new era are now over. The battles of Afghanistan and Iraq have been won decisively and honorably. But these are only two battles. We are only at the end of the beginning in the war on terror and terrorist states.

the beginning.... even people who know nothing about kristol should be able to presume what he'd like this "9/11 generation" to do to syria and iran...

[Nono]

Quote by: Prax (...) debating which generations were better, WWII or Boomers..... as from my own understanding of the situation in my own country (...)

There's little difference in this respect between the US and Canada. Fighting Axis fascism/militarism was a noble undertaking, and the people (from the US, Canada and elsewhere) who actually did it had just endured the Great Depression.

And WWII ended with the Marshall Plan, a reversal of dumb-dumb-dumb Versailles approach after WWI. And with the admirable initiative to set up the UN -- much more realistic than the League of Nations had been.

And those who had fought WWII (and who had previously been through the Depression) were in no mood not to see the emergence of a welfare state at home. So that's what happened.

And speaking of those who fought it -- that was basically everybody. People were "all in this together", and to a great extent everybody, rich or poor, did his share.

There were other spin-offs. Mass military organizations served somewhat as social equalizers. And who had been running the industries while the men were away? Women of course.

Compare all this to the self-indulgent Boomers. That's the point: What do they have to show for themselves other than self-indulgence? And this applies equally well to Canada.

Anyway, as bishop and Milton say, consider the Neocon source here.

[Sandy]

After WW2, we went to war against Communism and ended up in Korea and Vietnam. Many in my generation searched for a Candidate to return America back to its roots. We saw our nation under Liberal leadership again working for One World Order under the United Nations, the Christian coalition, the Empire of America? Take you pick.

In 1964 we found Barry Goldwater who firmed up the Republican Party against the wishes of the Northeastern establishment under Rockefeller. Our banner was “LIMITED GOVERNMENT, INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS, and PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITIES.”

It rang almost the same platform that Ron Paul is running on today. We were slaughtered from the competition not from the Liberals but from the Republicans who wanted this constricting government and acting like Imperial Rome. What is left of my generation is working for Ron Paul and again against the movement from the Republicans who want an Evangelical President in the White House.

This new movement of the GOP Conservatives under Bush 43 has destroyed our American values and freedoms. The top Republicans running for 2008 are nothing but sheep in search of a spiritual leader. The list of their prohibitions does not reflect anything of value but are written to stop your generation from phucking up what is left of the American family. My generation is also walking away from focusing on God instead of freedoms. We have listened to our children and grandchildren and can see we failed to educate the next generations to think critically for themselves. We developed a generation of more sheep. Drugged out drop outs who were trained to take hand outs because they were thought to be inferior. Stop your damn complaining and start working for your desires. You put Bush in for a second term and will probably elect another leader just like him in 2008.

Keep labeling others for your own damn poor judgment.

[Nono]

Quote by: Sandy After WW2, we (...) ended up (...) and Vietnam.

We didn't. You did. (And who wanted to nuke Hanoi? Seems to me it was a guy named Goldwater. Or am I mistaken?)

Anyway, your point would be? Who voted in the '64 election? No Boomers, that's for sure. And who handed Boy George a second term? Well, a hell of a lot of Boomers.
So what's your point? (As regards the subject of this thread, I mean.)

[notworthabean]

um yea Praxius this was indeed meant as a US centric thread. As far as I know no other countrie has the same experience as the US in regards to greatest generation-->baby boomers--->x--->y

[bishop]

Quote by: nono People were "all in this together", and to a great extent everybody, rich or poor, did his share.

very true... back then, you'd actually see the ivy leagers (princeton grads and the like) volunteering to fight in the war. fast forward past several unnecessary wars, and the only people you see enlisting now are those who are successfully bribed by the military into enlisting.

this tells me those with a semblance of priviledge (and their families) don't seem to keen on the idea of enlisting to become the government's fodder. when the government abuses the public's trust, the public becomes jaded. people love to compare generations to show how certain groups "cared" more than others. one thing that is rarely mentioned is the cumulative effect that corruption has had on the national psyche.

Quote by: sandy Keep labeling others for your own damn poor judgment.

pot. kettle. black.. :)

[Nono]

Quote by: bean As far as I know no other countrie has the same experience as the US in regards to greatest generation-->baby boomers--->x--->y

You shoulda read my post above, b. Canada's a parallel case. So are a number of other countries.

[Praxius]

Not to mention Canadians also fought in the Korean War... much was the same.... sorry, but the US wasn't exactly special in all aspects to make then isolated for the topic.

If you wanted it to be regarded to just the US alone, you should have stated so originally to avoid this confusion.... and if you guys knew anything about other nations and their cultures, you too would also see our silly confusion.

Same thing with those in the US calling themselves The Americans..... we're all apart of the Americas, and technically Canada takes up more of the Americas then the US, so we'd be considdered American more then you guys

But anyways, I already stated my opinion on the term "The Greatest Generation" and comparisons to others..... and no matter which way you look at it, or which part of those generations you wish to focus on, my opinion still stands as before.

I guess that's all there is left to say.

[Nono]

C'mon, Prax, Canadians call Americans "Americans" just as much as Americans do. This is merely custom in the English language, eh?

[Praxius]

Not for I

I haven't called them that without thinking twice about the terminology sicne I was in grade 10 when I brought up the question to my history teacher, and technically it's true.

In such a politically correct world we live in, I feel Canadians should fight in the courts to have legal rights to the term "American"

he he, man I like getting goats

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Praxius Not for I I haven't called them that without thinking twice about the terminology sicne I was in grade 10 when I brought up the question to my history teacher, and technically it's true. In such a politically correct world we live in, I feel Canadians should fight in the courts to have legal rights to the term "American" he he, man I like getting goats

Oddly, there are a few here that agree with you. Myself, and RM Nunez had this discussion here some time ago, and we're definately in the minority on that topic.