Speculation - 9/11

[HelioPrime]

First not looking for evidence about 9/11 truth or not.

Just the "If". If 9/11 really was a conspiracy what really could have happened? And most important why? Bush agenda? Secret shadow government? Muslim conspiracy? Chinese? What are your theory's?

I'll lead:

Suppose 9/11 really did happen where 4 planes were targeted by muslim terrorist. Only we knew they were there. In fact we secretly condoned the act. Why?

Oil. Yes oil and the inluence it provides. The government knows that eventually oil will peak or run out, and entire global economys will either crumble, or rapidly adapt. To ensure the future of US power worldside we needed to control the major locations of oil left in the world. Hence our friends the Saud's.

The Sauds too know oil will run out, so like their Arab Emerite neighboors they are trying to convert from a oil dependent country to one being the center of the muslim buisness world. This requires money. And where else to get money? Invest in the US, specifically defence industry's. So prior the 9/11 they do invest, and agree to assist and provide targets and opportunity for terrorists using insiders within the terrorists own networks.

Back in the US with the cold war over there is talk of why the need for a world military presence? So the powers that be decide to act. They plan with the Saud's, ensuring the US is targeted. The ultimate goal is oil. In the post 9/11 world they know they can use terrorism and fears of WMD as ammo to invade the middle east countries who are not US friendly. Afganastan is a sideline, a way to deal with the terrorists to hide any evidence of US involvment, Iraq, followed by Iran is the true objective. Topple Iraq, establish a peaceful pro US government, then us alleged attacks by Iran to invade and do the same.

However Iraw doesn't turn out as easy as they thought. Yet their efforts are succesful in directing any media attention away from invasion reasoning. Meanwhile they plan ways continue their conquest.

Why? Well for one its not Bush. He's only the public figurehead. The real government is a group of men who don't even have political power. Instead what they have is money, the money to bend washington to serve them. The president and senators who serve them don't really care about being puppets. They only care to enjoy their power while putting forth the agena of their masters.

These men are not evil, nor are they god fearing men. They are logical and calculating. They care not for US lives but for the good of the nation as a whole in its survival as a world power. They know the future is uncertain. They know most importantly that in order for the US to not only survive, but to surpass its Chinese and European rivals it must secure the world resources for itself. These men think for the future, they consider themselves likely modern day founding fathers. As long as terrorism exists as a threat they can justify the massive military they would need to one day enforce US control over the remaining world resources.

Yes a shadow government, willingly spending american lives to provide a reason behind their agenda. Indivudual lives matter not, because in their view the only thing that matters is protecting American power.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: HelioPrime These men are not evil...They are logical and calculating. They care not for US lives but for the good of the nation as a whole... Yes a shadow government, willingly spending american lives to provide a reason behind their agenda. Indivudual lives matter not, because in their view the only thing that matters is protecting American power.

Damn, dude! What does it take to qualify as evil in your view? Are evil guys always illogical and reckless?

And don't overlook the profit motive...

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Damn, dude! What does it take to qualify as evil in your view? Are evil guys always illogical and reckless? And don't overlook the profit motive...

Well I'd say anyone who would throw away lives and lie just to achieve some hidden agenda is evil...but then again we've done just that in almost every war we've entered.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: HelioPrime Well I'd say anyone who would throw away lives and lie just to achieve some hidden agenda is evil...but then again we've done just that in almost every war we've entered.

Give the man a cigar!

However, halting Japanese militarist expansion may have been a good idea.

And the Third Reich was a pretty dishonorable outfit, too...

[Clarence]

I like you, Helio. Short answer, I don't know.

[PatrickHenry]

There are a wide range of theories, Helio. Nearly all of them make more sense than a mass suicide/murder by 19 Arabs simply as an affront to the US.

Mike Ruppert's Crossing the Rubicon makes a pretty good case that it was about Peak Oil™.

Others have made a fairly detailed analysis concluding that it is about hegemony of US interests in the Middle East, with permanent bases in Iraq.

Then there is the theory of a century of profitable warfare. If the Muslim jihadis can be stirred up enough, no more false flag operations will be necessary to keep the war fever (and the profits) up.

Some folks think it is about the US dancing to Israel's tune...sort of the tail wagging the dog. AIPAC is acknowleged to be one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington.

I have heard speculation that Silverstein got wind of the false-flag op against the Pentagon and decided to ride the coattails of that black op with one of his own in NYC that could cash-in on the catastrophe with an insurance windfall.

Alex Jones thinks it's about tyranny and the negation of our guaranteed rights in America, turning it ever further into a Police/Security state.

Ruppert also mentions that the CIA was unhappy with the loss of their drug smuggling profits from Afghanistan. The Taliban was suppressing opium production and the money laundering it provides to Wall Street is something like $600 billion a year. The financiers and their operations arm, the CIA, need the liquidity.

Maybe it was a perfect storm and all these motives and more came into play.

Main thing: hold fast to your desire to find the smoking guns of that awful day. When you do, you will be an implacable foe of the perpetrators.

[Milton Bradley]

Perhaps the best evidence of coverup ( in my mind ) is the fact that they have probably spent more time, and money producing anti-conspiracy progamming than they did investigating what really happened.


So instead of attempting to provide legitimate information to the grieving 9/11 families they opted to produce television programming taking aim at the ( true ) opposition.

[Suburbanite]

Personally I think that the plan, the conspiracy version of 9/11, is so riddled with different points where someone gets paid off that what the real plan was, was to devise a way to drain the treasury and put that money into the hands of, well, of who, i'm not quite sure: free masons? Carlyle group? The damn Virginia Company? And clearly, for whatever international reasons we might never know the truth of, the free masons (or whatever) hated Saddam. It isn't like their aren't other great countries we could've taken over, ya know?

[Autolykos]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Give the man a cigar! However, halting Japanese militarist expansion may have been a good idea.

What about British militarist expansion? Oh, right, they had already reached their zenith before WWII. So much for halting it.

And the Third Reich was a pretty dishonorable outfit, too...

So was the Soviet Union under Stalin.

- Rob

[Nono]

Quote by: PH Nearly all of them make more sense than a mass suicide/murder by 19 Arabs simply as an affront to the US. (...) Silverstein got wind of the false-flag op against the Pentagon and decided to ride the coattails of that black op with one of his own in NYC that could cash-in on the catastrophe with an insurance windfall.

That's the one that seems less likely, I hope. I mean, if the thing was that leaky, it wouldn't be only Silverstein getting wind of it.

By the way, I think "a mass suicide/murder by 19 Arabs simply as an affront to the US" wilfully ignores the obvious desire to do something so inspiring to the 'Muslim street' that it could set off a chain reaction.

Not to mention the realization (on Osama's part) that it might hand Bush, Cheney & Co all the rope they need to hang themselves.

[another day]

See this so much more plausible then the elaborate staging theory of the 911 conspiracists. The government didn't have to go fly military jet planes and divert passenger planes and pay off passengers or fake planes in the sky with photoshop or all that crap. They just waited until the terrorist attack that they knew was imminent at some point and let it slide by unhindered.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: another day They just waited until the terrorist attack that they knew was imminent at some point and let it slide by unhindered.

In the "What Hit the Pentagon" thread, I said the exact same thing.

Someone asked, "How many people would be needed for the conspiracy?" and I answered, "How many people does it take to do nothing?"

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Nono That's the one that seems less likely, I hope. I mean, if the thing was that leaky, it wouldn't be only Silverstein getting wind of it.

Hmm...Are you saying that by your own knowledge, Silverstein is not a player in elitist, globalist circles? That he's just a nebbish with no insider juice? Didn't think so...

Quote by: Nono By the way, I think "a mass suicide/murder by 19 Arabs simply as an affront to the US" wilfully ignores the obvious desire to do something so inspiring to the 'Muslim street' that it could set off a chain reaction.

Willfully ignores? I gave a list of seven motives more logical than that...

Quote by: Nono Not to mention the realization (on Osama's part) that it might hand Bush, Cheney & Co all the rope they need to hang themselves.

Oh, please...you know better, Nono. :( NORAD stand-down, obstructed investigation, WTC7 mystery collapse, financial anomalies, the obvious false trail of documents/flight manuals/Korans/passports, Mossad operatives celebrating in Jersey?

Oh, what's the use...you have looked at this thing long enough that I shouldn't have to go into this...*shakes head*

[Nono]

Unike you, I don't accept all those stories as given. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. We... will... never... know... (à la Dallas).

By the way, you're saying that everyone who moves in the circles Silversteing moves in was in the know? Somehow I doubt that...

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Nono By the way, you're saying that everyone who moves in the circles Silversteing moves in was in the know? Somehow I doubt that...

Ahhh...no.

I think maybe ol' Larry got a late-nite phone call from Mossad offering to help him set up a profitable demolition...from a little buzz they had picked up about the 9/11 Pentagon operation coming up.

[Nono]

If you were Mossad, would you inform anybody ahead of time?
You bet you wouldn't.

[shrike]

If you were Mossad, would you inform anybody ahead of time? You bet you wouldn't.

I thought you liked mossad conspiracies especially about blowing synagogues and blaming poor inoccent neo-nazis:eek:

[Nono]

Keep twisting, shrike. I said it was plausible. And it is.

As for your "poor inoccent neo-nazis" remark, it well illustrates your debate level.

Got anything to contribute to this thread?

[shrike]

Keep twisting, shrike. I said it was plausible. And it is

It’s also plausible that there is few anti-Semites in the site.

As for your "poor inoccent neo-nazis" remark, it well illustrates your debate level. Got anything to contribute to this thread?

The remark just showed Nazi-Leftist alliance only Nazi would think that Jewish people would blow their own place of worship just to blame some crazy right wingers they pretty capable to this with on the own..

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: shrike It’s also plausible that there is few anti-Semites in the site.

It certainly is. It's also plausible that not a single one discusses those views here.