Sheeple

[ZNFYRH]

I actually wasn't painting any pictures out of my imagination.

Everything from that post you quoted is from what others have said in this thread already.

That's why I felt it appropriate to ask that if all those qualify as sheeple, what about those who complain and still do nothing?

Quote by: Milton Bradley As long as the anti--conspiracy people are free to call us the Tin Foil Hat Crowd, I reserve the right to use mildly dergoatory terms in self defense. Commie!

You have the right to use any term or language you choose. You can use extremely derogatory terms if you like. But, as I say, your use of them says more about your failings and limitations, than those of whom you denigrate.

Regards
S.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I actually wasn't painting any pictures out of my imagination. Everything from that post you quoted is from what others have said in this thread already. That's why I felt it appropriate to ask that if all those qualify as sheeple, what about those who complain and still do nothing?

So, this isn't painting an image out of your imagination?

Quote by: ZNFYRH Disliking your situation and doing nothing about it. Railing about whatever circumstance happens to be not preferable but doing nothing beyond complaining. There are those who accept that the world sucks but they would rather enjoy what they can out of life and live it as best they can as things are, without changes. But of those who think "it sucks" and want it changed but do nothing, aren't they "sheeple" too? Just sheeple that bleat louder?

I haven't seen anybody in this thread admitting to anything of the sort, so I guees that leaves little for me to believe accept that it is a construct of your fertile imagination.

[The Decider]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I'm wondering what the functional purpose is of that word. I'm wondering how that word is, in any way, respectful, or appropriate for use in mature discussion.

Well, perhaps we can ask Ron Paul why he chooses not insult people with such terms. I've never heard him call an opponent or group of voters "sheeple" or other gems tossed around these boards so freely by many of his Volconvo supporters. Perhaps Paul feels, as you do, that insulting people during debate is slightly unpersuasive, even counterproductive. Paul has no interest in demeaning his opponents or casting himself as the superior in a debate. He makes his arguments and listens, respectfully.

Too bad Paul's supporters here can't learn from his example.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: sdbest You have the right to use any term or language you choose. You can use extremely derogatory terms if you like. But, as I say, your use of them says more about your failings and limitations, than those of whom you denigrate. Regards S.

Just fighting fire with fire my man.


When your side props up logical fallacies, and demons from deep within their own imagination, what is left to discuss with them accept what sheeple they appear to be?

[Autolykos]

Quote by: The Decider Too bad Paul's supporters here can't learn from his example.

I don't believe I've ever used the term "sheeple".

- Rob

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Milton So, this isn't painting an image out of your imagination? ... I haven't seen anybody in this thread admitting to anything of the sort, so I guees that leaves little for me to believe accept that it is a construct of your fertile imagination.

You've reduced this now to a bickering situation of, "Nuh uh, no one said that."

Quote by: Praxius, Post #26 Accepting how the world is, accepting that you yourself and others like you are being screwed over, and sitting by, doing nothing to make change, and basically sitting around eating your grass and not contributing to better your quality of life, is a sheeple in my mind.

Quote by: Me Disliking your situation and doing nothing about it.

The rest was not a characterization.

There are those who dislike their situations and complain and proselytize but they take no action.

So I asked if those people are nothing more than louder sheeple.

I've given you a respectful response without the sniping insults, regardless of earlier provocation. I hope you can respond in kind.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Decider Well, perhaps we can ask Ron Paul why he chooses not insult people with such terms. I've never heard him call an opponent or group of voters "sheeple" or other gems tossed around these boards so freely by many of his Volconvo supporters. Perhaps Paul feels, as you do, that insulting people during debate is slightly unpersuasive, even counterproductive. Paul has no interest in demeaning his opponents or casting himself as the superior in a debate. He makes his arguments and listens, respectfully. Too bad Paul's supporters here can't learn from his example.

I agree, and I've noticed that the majority of Libertarians on the board (nods to Auto, who isn't one of them) throw those terms around quite... no pun intended... liberally.

In fact, I find it strange to think that people who believe in individual liberty and make your own choices would be so insulting of those who choose to do nothing.

It only makes it worse when someone directly associates the word with Libertarians...

Q: So please, for those of you that toss the term (sheeple) around, what makes you better than them? . A:Your question is built on a false premise. Libertarians can't be generalized to say they all imagine themselves better than anyone.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Autolykos I don't believe I've ever used the term "sheeple". - Rob

Point taken. Some Paul supporters here.....

[Maryjane]

I am kinda new to debating. I don't know everyone well, which means I don't understand if it's post history or personalities that color a thread. I'd like to stay out of the bickering on V, so half the time I wait to see how a thread will develop to see if the direction it's going is worth the effort of my contributing a point of view. (at least I hope I'm contributing)?

I don't see how insulting someone will get your point across? I can understand how one can perceive the term sheeple as insulting in the context as I've sometimes seen it used here. I wish people would set their differences aside when they debate. Some of us are trying to learn from you. Besides, haven't we all been sheeple at one time or another? I know I have. That said...

I've never use the word. It's been a while since I had to work in the corporate world. Either I had forgotten what it was like or it's gotten worse than what I remember it being. To me, the term would describe the associates I worked with at my last place of employment. From the managers that kissed ass instead of doing their jobs, to the employees that were constantly degraded. Day in, day out, it was business as usual. The more they all fed into it, the more disgusted I became, till I no longer wanted to be associated with the wolves or the bleating sheep. I packed up my stuff, told the employees good-bye, and walked out.

I can understand being a sheeple if you are forced into it and have no means of escape. And I'm glad you brought up the N word. To me nigger means slave. So now that I'm out of the corporate world, unemployed, yet financially independent, what does that make me? Still a sheep for not making waves for the other employees that were left behind when I had nothing to lose? Not a sheep because I stood up for myself?

What do you call a person that no longer follows? :confused:

Do I feel superior to them? The managers, yes. I never saw the need to suck up when I could earn respect and get the job done with integrity.

Do I feel superior to the other employees? No. I understood most of them put up with what they did because of their youth, their lack experience in dealing with this type of management, and their financial inability to tell the higher ups to take the job and shove it.

I have hope one day they use their experiences as a life lesson on how to treat others.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Maryjane Do I feel superior to the other employees? No. I understood most of them put up with what they did because of their youth, their lack experience in dealing with this type of management, and their financial inability to tell the higher ups to take the job and shove it.

That there is why I try to avoid disparaging terms for an entire group.

As mentioned in other threads, there are plenty of people who want change but choose not to act because they have too much to lose.

If I might wager a guess, Maryjane, you knew you could leave your job because you could find a way to make ends meet... to make things work. You might have a spouse, kids, a goldfish, a Ferrari, etc. The point is that you felt that you could take action because in your situation it was possible.

I think the terms like "sheeple" and "nanny-stater" are tossed around way too much because they are used to describe the decision and not the motivation.

I consider them bigotry and prejudice because they are judging a person before getting to know them.

And as far as that kind of behavior in mature debate, it's always hardest to debate the person whose entire argument is in their head. If that person disparages a group in their mind, it will color their arguments and usually leave them tainted and unclear.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I agree, and I've noticed that the majority of Libertarians on the board (nods to Auto, who isn't one of them) throw those terms around quite... no pun intended... liberally.

Hehehehe, credit where credit is due, that's funny. But then I do see myself as fiscally conservative, and socially liberal, so there you go.


I beleive in the liberal application of many things.

Quote by: ZNFYRH In fact, I find it strange to think that people who believe in individual liberty and make your own choices would be so insulting of those who choose to do nothing. It only makes it worse when someone directly associates the word with Libertarians...

I think I generally equate the term with ignorance, apathy, or people who willingly close their eyes to the reality, and choose to regurgitate the opnions of the pundits as if they are their own. ( Here I'm implying that they are to lazy, or incapable of thinking it through for themselves, or they don't know the legal implications for willing transgressions against the constitution. )


So I don't see it as a blanket "Im superior" type of statement as much an invitation to reflect upon your own views, and consider whether you are letting other people form your opinion for you.


I can' t help it if you are inclined to self identify with what could be considered a derogatory term thrown around on a debate forum.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: Milton I can' t help it if you are inclined to self identify with what could be considered a derogatory term thrown around on a debate forum.

I don't identify with it. I use the term myself, on occasion, but not with the flippancy I see here, and I only use it when I know the background of those I'm insulting.

And it is a derogatory term. It's defined as such.

Quote by: Milton I think I generally equate the term with ignorance, apathy, or people who willingly close their eyes to the reality, and choose to regurgitate the opnions of the pundits as if they are their own. ( Here I'm implying that they are to lazy, or incapable of thinking it through for themselves, or they don't know the legal implications for willing transgressions against the constitution. )

Those are the only cases in which I actually use the word... and I have to know that information for myself. I don't know the "story" behind a person's decision, I don't insult them.

Instead, I'll insult the decision.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: ZNFYRH Those are the only cases in which I actually use the word... and I have to know that information for myself. I don't know the "story" behind a person's decision, I don't insult them. Instead, I'll insult the decision.

Hey great, you have taken the high road. I do as well in almost every other circumstance you can imagine, however my intolerance for assholia has become quite an issue because it is so prevalent in society today.


Frankly, I don't really care what the sheeple think of me anyway. Those are people I can afford to alienate.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Autolykos I don't believe I've ever used the term "sheeple". - Rob

I don't think I've used it either. I prefer "Idiot Sheep" as a term to describe the 'go along with whatever happens' crowd.

But, at the end of the day "sheeple" is no different than calling someone a fool, or a blind fool. There's no good reason for a whole thread on this, IMO.

[ZNFYRH]

The reason is to discuss why there is a disparaging term to insult a group when that term encompasses people of varying levels of intelligence.

[lsbskins1]

Milton -

How is it, if I am so ineffectual, that I get under your skin to such a degree? The people who really say things I find to be void of all thought, logic and worth...I pretty much ingore. I do that because it is pointless to discuss things with people who have no capacity for logic. I believe you dislike my posts so much because you know that there is plenty of logic in them. They would not be so threatening to you if they were not.

What is illogical about pointing out that all the free market ideas floating around in your head are theories that have never worked in actuallity in the way their proponents claim? What is illogical about pointing out that people who cling to theories because they sound like simple solutions are very "sheeple" like by your own definition of the term?

Your problem with me is not my lack of logic. I suspect it is more that, when you are feeling all warm and cozy in your blanket of misconception, I come along and throw mightly cold, logical water on you.

Quote by: Milton Bradley When your side props up logical fallacies, and demons from deep within their own imagination, what is left to discuss with them accept what sheeple they appear to be?

My side? I don't recall joining any side. But, you've peaked my curiosity. What "logical fallacies" and "demons from deep within their own imaginations" (Oh my!) are you referring to?

Regards
S.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: ZNFYRH I think the terms like "sheeple" and "nanny-stater" are tossed around way too much because they are used to describe the decision and not the motivation.

I use the term "sheeple" and I don't apologize for it. Most American people are like sheep (hence "sheeple"): they blindly accept what the government and the media tell them and accept the status quo.

[ZNFYRH]

Chancellor

How do you know they "blindly" accept what the government and media tell them?

I could easily argue that given the current approval ratings, the majority of Americans in fact don't blindly accept it.

Regardless, what about the other question of the topic?

How is using a disparaging term for a group in any way functional for mature discussion and debate?