Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

LadiesMan217 · Aug 6, 2007, 03:00 pm

I am lead to ask this question in part by some of the things that were said by Lord Achleon's "Do you care how other's view you?" thread. He said some very off color things about the relevance of debating online and it kind of struck me even though he was a total ass. I began to weigh the cost/benefits of debating on this site and I am kind of at a loss. It is extremely involved and time consuming, much of which could be spent on things far more productive to my life, however it exposes me to different points of views and challenges my beliefs occasionally, which is not bad. But my brother put it this way, he said, "Debating online is like the Special Olympics, even if you win, you are still retarded." So I ask you, "What is the point?"

SoylentGreen · Aug 6, 2007, 03:10 pm

Is there a point to anything?
Your brother misses the point, its not about the winning its about the doing.

Captain Cardio · Aug 6, 2007, 03:12 pm

I can't speak for everybody here, but I've found this site to be very useful for getting to know myself better, for better establishing and/or refining my beliefs, and building my confidence in debate.

Granted some of the threads here succumb to stubborn circular debate, where neither party is willing to step back, give their opponent credit for the good points they have made, and try to figure out where the common ground is. But there are also very intelligent things being said, if you can sift through some of the bad threads, and the sometimes obnoxious posts and get to the ideas and insights you might not have considered before.

I notice that at this site, there is almost always 5-10X as many people reading, as are logged in. I think that says that even if there are some pointless things on volconvo, for the most part, people find this site interesting, even just to read.

I would think that this site helps to encourage critical discussion of lots of different issues, and in my mind, is a node for furthering humanity's overall intelligence, albiet a small one relative to the size of the entire population.

Aswell, I think this site is part of a vital overall communication that helps us to defend against totalitarianism.

LadiesMan217 · Aug 6, 2007, 03:39 pm

Quote:

Is there a point to anything?
Your brother misses the point, its not about the winning its about the doing.

Could you maybe go a little deeper? I guess my real question(s) are why do you debate on this site and what do you get out of it? I am assuming because you continue to debate on this site that it must be worthwhile to you, so why is it worthwhile? I ask this because I got the sense from Lord Achleon that no one really cares and there is nothing really being accomplished other than the fact that I am spending hours at my computer and it has made me think that I maybe I should just forget about this and focus my time somewhere else, so I am hoping that people's responses will give me some good enough reasons that I will change my mind.

Jern_Sandyer · Aug 6, 2007, 03:58 pm

I debate on this site (or in some cases try to)

A/ To be able to refine my own views and debating ability against the international minds instead of just my local ones. If I were to just debate with my school debate team where would I get. I would have little diversity and being sorrounded by diverse opinions forces us to get a better idea of what ours are.

B/ Learning what affects other people. Some people provide excellent source material which I wouldn't have known about if I didn't come here.

C/ Being able to take a major local issue and see what others think about it that are not directly influenced by it. To provide an unbiased opinion basically.

SoylentGreen · Aug 6, 2007, 04:06 pm

Well, all the things you and Captain Cardio pointed out plus I have met some good people and made a friend.
I have found there are high and low points of the amount of interest and time I spend here depending on whats being discussed.
I never bothered to much with this lord acheron guy he seemed a bit dim witted and I just skimmed his posts.I really don't think his views are worth paying to much attention to, there not even funny.
As for accomplished, its the journey not the destination.

Chancellor · Aug 6, 2007, 04:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: LadiesMan217

I am lead to ask this question

Were you lead or were you led?

Quote:

So I ask you, "What is the point?"

You mean there's supposed to be a point?

Mr.Vicchio · Aug 6, 2007, 04:58 pm

LM217.

I post here mostly because it let's me have an insight into how people unlike me think. Sometimes, it's down right scary how morally deficient some people are. Sometimes it's enlightening, I learn something, and other times.. it's just fun to watch them flail around trying to come up with an argument. I take some pride in knowing I have "Won" an argument when the person debating goes into personal attacks.

You take what you can from the experience, and not let it get to you. Sometimes it does. Sometimes you get angry and that's not good. Take a break. I d =o from time to time, generally in frustration at the admins, but it's good for you.

LadiesMan217 · Aug 6, 2007, 05:19 pm

Quote:

Were you lead or were you led?

Whichever one is grammatically correct. FYI I am not a big fan of hair-splitters but I will let this one slide.

Quote:

You mean there's supposed to be a point?

More specifically I find myself asking if I am just wasting my time, not really what is the point?

LadiesMan217 · Aug 6, 2007, 05:23 pm

Quote:

LM217.

I post here mostly because it let's me have an insight into how people unlike me think. Sometimes, it's down right scary how morally deficient some people are. Sometimes it's enlightening, I learn something, and other times.. it's just fun to watch them flail around trying to come up with an argument. I take some pride in knowing I have "Won" an argument when the person debating goes into personal attacks.

You take what you can from the experience, and not let it get to you. Sometimes it does. Sometimes you get angry and that's not good. Take a break. I d =o from time to time, generally in frustration at the admins, but it's good for you.

I know what you mean. I am sometimes astonished at the ridiculousness of some of these people's views on certain issues and then I start to wonder if there is any hope for mankind, but most of the time I simply disagree with people's views but I can see how they came to think that way.

Chancellor · Aug 6, 2007, 05:30 pm

Quote:

Quote by: LadiesMan217

Whichever one is grammatically correct. FYI I am not a big fan of hair-splitters but I will let this one slide.

Well, how would I know for certain that you weren't using "lead" (the metal) as a metaphor? :)

Quote:

More specifically I find myself asking if I am just wasting my time, not really what is the point?

Again, there's supposed to be a point? It's only a waste of time if you are expecting there to be a point to all of this and you don't feel as though you are accomplishing what you hoped to accomplish.

LadiesMan217 · Aug 6, 2007, 05:59 pm

Quote:

Well, how would I know for certain that you weren't using "lead" (the metal) as a metaphor?

Ah yes, I had forgotten about that popular turn of phrase, sorry about the confusion.

Quote:

Again, there's supposed to be a point? It's only a waste of time if you are expecting there to be a point to all of this and you don't feel as though you are accomplishing what you hoped to accomplish.

Well then, I guess in my POV I realize that there really isn't a point and that is why I feel I am wasting my time, so I just wanted to get some other people's perspectives.

Chancellor · Aug 6, 2007, 06:18 pm

Quote:

Quote by: LadiesMan217

Ah yes, I had forgotten about that popular turn of phrase, sorry about the confusion.

No, I just have an odd sense of humor.

Quote:

Well then, I guess in my POV I realize that there really isn't a point and that is why I feel I am wasting my time, so I just wanted to get some other people's perspectives.

Can't you just do something for the sake of doing it without there having to be a point to it?

LadiesMan217 · Aug 6, 2007, 06:34 pm

Quote:

No, I just have an odd sense of humor.

I can tell and I tried to respond with a joke of my own but it is hard emphasize sarcasm in writing.

Quote:

Can't you just do something for the sake of doing it without there having to be a point to it?

It is possible but I am just a purpose-minded fellow when it comes to spending hours of my time.

phoenix_fire · Aug 6, 2007, 06:48 pm

It is what you make of it. If you sit here and just try to evangelize everyone to your point of view, then it is a waste of time. No one is going to listen to you if they don't think you're listening to them. There are a lot of different reasons that one might be here and they vary in value.

Personally, I am here as an observer. I try to understand what others think and believe and why. Therefore, the time I spend here is pretty useful.

Gods_Mercenary · Aug 6, 2007, 07:02 pm

I have some extra time and a mobile internet laptop, why not waste that time here that would otherwise be spent sitting in an airport or something?

iclaudius · Aug 6, 2007, 07:21 pm

Your brother is wrong. Being an idiotic, ignorant tool wandering through life (as many people who say things like that do) is like competing in the Special Olympics: whether you win or lose, people are going to tell you its ok to fail, and even if you pull out ahead, you still don't have a f*cking clue... and although it does feel good to be better than the next guy, you still have to go back to feeling normal afterwards. I do things like this as sort of fail insurance. Also because it's fun.

Muckraker · Aug 6, 2007, 07:30 pm

How about this for a painfully logical answer?

As an aspiring writer, any act of representing thoughts as words can be considered as the honing of the tools of the trade. This is a forum where expression via the written word can be tested to its extreme because the posters are writing in addition to trying to get a certain point across and defend their views.

Also, I like to argue about anything. My wife doesn't.

On the flip side, if I'm writing here then it means I'm not working on my book which, in essence, means I AM wasting time...

Milton Bradley · Aug 6, 2007, 07:44 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio

I take some pride in knowing I have "Won" an argument when the person debating goes into personal attacks.

Too bad you don't conceed the point when you're the first one throwing the insults around.

Hell, under that criteria, one has to wonder what ever drew you back here.

Netopalis · Aug 7, 2007, 03:17 am

A man does not truly know or understand what he stands for or why he stands for it until he rationalizes and argues for that point. It is logical thought in defense of a belief that strengthens us mentally and emotionally.

Also, a knife that is left to rust will not cut well, but one that is sharpened will slice easily. A knife is not sharpened without something to sharpen it on - consider the knife to be your mind, and the debate forum to be a type of whetstone. It may not be for everyone, but it is certainly a valid option.

Aug 6, 2007, 03:00 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
LadiesMan217 MoreThanMeetsTheEye Location: Earth, Solar System Posts: 505	What is the Point? I am lead to ask this question in part by some of the things that were said by Lord Achleon's "Do you care how other's view you?" thread. He said some very off color things about the relevance of debating online and it kind of struck me even though he was a total ass. I began to weigh the cost/benefits of debating on this site and I am kind of at a loss. It is extremely involved and time consuming, much of which could be spent on things far more productive to my life, however it exposes me to different points of views and challenges my beliefs occasionally, which is not bad. But my brother put it this way, he said, "Debating online is like the Special Olympics, even if you win, you are still retarded." So I ask you, "What is the point?" No sacrifice, No victory

Aug 6, 2007, 03:12 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Captain Cardio Uncomfortable Mind Posts: 397	I can't speak for everybody here, but I've found this site to be very useful for getting to know myself better, for better establishing and/or refining my beliefs, and building my confidence in debate. Granted some of the threads here succumb to stubborn circular debate, where neither party is willing to step back, give their opponent credit for the good points they have made, and try to figure out where the common ground is. But there are also very intelligent things being said, if you can sift through some of the bad threads, and the sometimes obnoxious posts and get to the ideas and insights you might not have considered before. I notice that at this site, there is almost always 5-10X as many people reading, as are logged in. I think that says that even if there are some pointless things on volconvo, for the most part, people find this site interesting, even just to read. I would think that this site helps to encourage critical discussion of lots of different issues, and in my mind, is a node for furthering humanity's overall intelligence, albiet a small one relative to the size of the entire population. Aswell, I think this site is part of a vital overall communication that helps us to defend against totalitarianism. Last edited by Captain Cardio; Aug 6, 2007 at 03:34 pm.

Aug 6, 2007, 03:58 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Jern_Sandyer Devil's Advocate Location: Alberta Posts: 136	I debate on this site (or in some cases try to) A/ To be able to refine my own views and debating ability against the international minds instead of just my local ones. If I were to just debate with my school debate team where would I get. I would have little diversity and being sorrounded by diverse opinions forces us to get a better idea of what ours are. B/ Learning what affects other people. Some people provide excellent source material which I wouldn't have known about if I didn't come here. C/ Being able to take a major local issue and see what others think about it that are not directly influenced by it. To provide an unbiased opinion basically. Jern_Sandyer is the local Devil's Advocate Number 1 I doubt my sanity; yet again I doubt yours as well

Aug 6, 2007, 04:58 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	LM217. I post here mostly because it let's me have an insight into how people unlike me think. Sometimes, it's down right scary how morally deficient some people are. Sometimes it's enlightening, I learn something, and other times.. it's just fun to watch them flail around trying to come up with an argument. I take some pride in knowing I have "Won" an argument when the person debating goes into personal attacks. You take what you can from the experience, and not let it get to you. Sometimes it does. Sometimes you get angry and that's not good. Take a break. I d =o from time to time, generally in frustration at the admins, but it's good for you. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Aug 6, 2007, 06:48 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
phoenix_fire Paladin Location: Narnia Posts: 4,277	It is what you make of it. If you sit here and just try to evangelize everyone to your point of view, then it is a waste of time. No one is going to listen to you if they don't think you're listening to them. There are a lot of different reasons that one might be here and they vary in value. Personally, I am here as an observer. I try to understand what others think and believe and why. Therefore, the time I spend here is pretty useful. Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. -- Song 8:6

Aug 6, 2007, 03:10 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
SoylentGreen Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,394	Is there a point to anything? Your brother misses the point, its not about the winning its about the doing.

Aug 6, 2007, 04:06 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
SoylentGreen Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,394	Well, all the things you and Captain Cardio pointed out plus I have met some good people and made a friend. I have found there are high and low points of the amount of interest and time I spend here depending on whats being discussed. I never bothered to much with this lord acheron guy he seemed a bit dim witted and I just skimmed his posts.I really don't think his views are worth paying to much attention to, there not even funny. As for accomplished, its the journey not the destination.

Aug 6, 2007, 07:02 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,357	I have some extra time and a mobile internet laptop, why not waste that time here that would otherwise be spent sitting in an airport or something? “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Aug 6, 2007, 07:21 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
iclaudius Igneous Magma Posts: 332	Your brother is wrong. Being an idiotic, ignorant tool wandering through life (as many people who say things like that do) is like competing in the Special Olympics: whether you win or lose, people are going to tell you its ok to fail, and even if you pull out ahead, you still don't have a f*cking clue... and although it does feel good to be better than the next guy, you still have to go back to feeling normal afterwards. I do things like this as sort of fail insurance. Also because it's fun.

Aug 6, 2007, 07:30 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Muckraker Igneous Magma Posts: 354	How about this for a painfully logical answer? As an aspiring writer, any act of representing thoughts as words can be considered as the honing of the tools of the trade. This is a forum where expression via the written word can be tested to its extreme because the posters are writing in addition to trying to get a certain point across and defend their views. Also, I like to argue about anything. My wife doesn't. On the flip side, if I'm writing here then it means I'm not working on my book which, in essence, means I AM wasting time...

Aug 7, 2007, 03:17 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
Netopalis Peculiar. Location: Bluefield, WV Posts: 179	A man does not truly know or understand what he stands for or why he stands for it until he rationalizes and argues for that point. It is logical thought in defense of a belief that strengthens us mentally and emotionally. Also, a knife that is left to rust will not cut well, but one that is sharpened will slice easily. A knife is not sharpened without something to sharpen it on - consider the knife to be your mind, and the debate forum to be a type of whetstone. It may not be for everyone, but it is certainly a valid option.