How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Maryjane]

I have never known anybody who did this honestly and sincerely who remained an unbeliever.

Really? Did you ever consider for a moment that they were just being nice and telling you what you want to hear? I do it all the time so religious people stop cramming their beliefs down my throat.

But if you a truly a non believer, what is it to you what anybody else believes? Why do you apparently feel so compelled to tell believers that they are delusional or dealing in fantasies? Why are you so motivated to spend so much time in a thread like this? Why do you work so hard at it?

I know plenty of people in my situation that look to god for answers. Most of them are still asking unanswerable questions I stopped asking years ago. How is looking to god for answers (they aren't going to find) helping them cope with death? They can choose to accept the realities in life and move forward or they can keep asking questions and hope a god is going to answer them for them.

Telling them god has a plan for them and they are not to question is just a platitude for "I don't know what to say but telling you this sure makes me feel better"

What you aren't telling them is time heals a lot of things. If telling people the passage of time is really god's work you aren't doing them any favors.

[Michael1695]

Quote by: Maryjane Really? Did you ever consider for a moment that they were just being nice and telling you what you want to hear? I do it all the time so religious people stop cramming their beliefs down my throat. I know plenty of people in my situation that look to god for answers. Most of them are still asking unanswerable questions I stopped asking years ago. How is looking to god for answers (they aren't going to find) helping them cope with death? They can choose to accept the realities in life and move forward or they can keep asking questions and hope a god is going to answer them for them. Telling them god has a plan for them and they are not to question is just a platitude for "I don't know what to say but telling you this sure makes me feel better" What you aren't telling them is time heals a lot of things. If telling people the passage of time is really god's work you aren't doing them any favors.

You have it all wrong, because when I am going through a hard time, I fina a lot of comfort in prayer. Even though God may not answer right away or show earth moving miracles, I still know he is there. If you aren't a true believer then obviously you are not going to find the comfort in turning to God. But a true believer does not need signs to show them. Even though we see signs everyday.

[Foxfyre]

Quote by: Maryjane Really? Did you ever consider for a moment that they were just being nice and telling you what you want to hear? I do it all the time so religious people stop cramming their beliefs down my throat.

I think telling people what they want to hear probably brings a person's character into question more than does somebody sharing their belief in the love of God with you.

I know plenty of people in my situation that look to god for answers. Most of them are still asking unanswerable questions I stopped asking years ago. How is looking to god for answers (they aren't going to find) helping them cope with death? They can choose to accept the realities in life and move forward or they can keep asking questions and hope a god is going to answer them for them.

You built so many red herrings into this statement, I think I'll just accept you along with your prejudices and move to the next comment.

Telling them god has a plan for them and they are not to question is just a platitude for "I don't know what to say but telling you this sure makes me feel better"

Perhaps there is some truth in this. What do you tell people when you don't know what to say? Do you think telling them life sucks and there is no hope helps?

What you aren't telling them is time heals a lot of things. If telling people the passage of time is really god's work you aren't doing them any favors

I tell a lot of people who are hurting or frustrated or discourged to give it time. Sometimes there is absolutely nothing else to do. Waiting on the Lord to reveal himself and/or his plan or marching orders is sort of another way to say that too.

But why do you think you are so angry?

[Michael1695]

Quote by: Maryjane I know plenty of people in my situation that look to god for answers. Most of them are still asking unanswerable questions I stopped asking years ago. How is looking to god for answers (they aren't going to find) helping them cope with death? They can choose to accept the realities in life and move forward or they can keep asking questions and hope a god is going to answer them for them.

Turn to God to Worship and comfort, and turn to the bible for answers.

[Jack]

Oh please, in a debate forum comfy little platitudes will be met with deserved scorn.
The woman's husband died and all you theists can offer are vague pleasantries and stale platitudes? How telling that is.

[Michael1695]

Quote by: Isherwood Oh please, in a debate forum comfy little platitudes will be met with deserved scorn. The woman's husband died and all you theists can offer are vague pleasantries and stale platitudes? How telling that is.

What the heck are you talking about? Who's husband died. What does that have to do with anything?

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: Porfyra he is the light there, and all the glory and happiness is in him. thats what i believe heaven is like.

Porfyra why light?

Have you some deep rooted fear of dark?

Also why He, does your god need to be masculine?

why do you expect glory and happiness together?

why is this your heavenly model?

[Porfyra]

i've got a question about prayer, since it was brought up in a previous post.

why pray if it isn't really needed? Gos already has our lives planned out completely and nothing we say to him can change it.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: Ken Carman How does one aim "beyond perfect?" I do believe one can accept the premise that "error," or whatever you wish to call it, always exists and still push ourselves onwards: perfecting ourselves. Not to bounce into cliche' too much, but we are, hopefully, smart enough to walk and chew our way unto perfection at the same time. Plus, isn't it sometimes the case that when we think we are pushing towards perfection we find we are mistaken? I really do believe it is, and always is, a learning process. In fact, I believe what happened to Jesus was a learning process for the divine. If God was perfect there would have been no need to "send his son." God's methods, and the way God was handling us, would have been perfect so "the Son" would have been, at best, unnecessary. Jesus bespeaks a change of tactics: a part of the learning curve as applied to a diety as well as to humanity.

you consider your lifetime being an attendance in some heaven school on earth and to graduate you need to worship?

when will you live as a responsible human and no longer a schoolchild?

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: jazz fork Gun They need to seek forgiveness after their act. Thus suicide is considered sin because it is murder and all the worse because they cannot seek forgiveness if they're dead.... If he had really sought forgiveness, would he be blowing up kindergartens? Yeah I didn't think so.... Or he's mental. Plus suicide bomber = dies in the act... so see above...

jazz fork Gun well spotted

[Porfyra]

Porfyra why light? Have you some deep rooted fear of dark? Also why He, does your god need to be masculine? why do you expect glory and happiness together? why is this your heavenly model?

ahh let's just say my views have changed...
but i'll answer anyway:

light because the bible says so, and who relly likes darkness all the time? i have ummm an attachment to light let's just say, and no i'm not scared of the dark.

masculine because got is male, duh

that WAs my heavenly model because it's all i'd ever been told, and because Christians kinda like to overdo it with the whole "perfect paradise" thing.

but hey if thats really what heaven is like i'm not complaining

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: Porfyra yes. absolutely, without a doubt. it's better than burning in eternal fire, right?

Porfyra and the evidence for this furnace is? where?

[Porfyra]

*masculine because GOD is male, sorry typo

[Porfyra]

Porfyra and the evidence for this furnace is? where?

read revelation. it's everywhere.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: XFRODOBAGGINSX The pain is the same as this life, only it's worse because the body doesn't burn up. There are different levels in hell, but in the end, everyone there ends up in the lake of fire.

How do you know this?

Or is this your private hope for all sinners and unbelievers?

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Porfyra i've got a question about prayer, since it was brought up in a previous post. why pray if it isn't really needed? God already has our lives planned out completely and nothing we say to him can change it.

Well this is a classical exemple of religion fatalism, afraid of having choice and responsabilities said Sartre.

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: Porfyra ahh let's just say my views have changed... but i'll answer anyway: light because the bible says so, and who relly likes darkness all the time? i have ummm an attachment to light let's just say, and no i'm not scared of the dark. masculine because got is male, duh that WAs my heavenly model because it's all i'd ever been told, and because Christians kinda like to overdo it with the whole "perfect paradise" thing. but hey if thats really what heaven is like i'm not complaining

most of the universe is comprised of darkness

why male? is this your need?

[nerdvincent]

Quote by: Arawn-ap-Hywel why male? is this your need?

Because male are stronger, hormone tricks translated in a religious format.

[Porfyra]

Because male are stronger, hormone tricks translated in a religious format.

eh male may be stronger but we ladies are smarter
jk


i dont know why he's male.... christian answer would be "because the bible says so"... -.-

[Maryjane]

You have it all wrong, because when I am going through a hard time, I fina a lot of comfort in prayer. Even though God may not answer right away or show earth moving miracles, I still know he is there. If you aren't a true believer then obviously you are not going to find the comfort in turning to God. But a true believer does not need signs to show them. Even though we see signs everyday.

I don't know what you are dealing with but I do know quite a bit about how religion plays a part in coping with the death of a spouse. A lot of believers "hang on" because they are told they will see their loved ones in the after life. A lot of them commit suicide because they can't hang on waiting for some miracle to happen that turns their sorrow into joy.

You want to pretend that you are more religious than the people I know? Are you telling me the people I know aren't true believers?

I know a widower, his wife and infant daughter were killed by a drunk driver five years ago. He is left with four children to raise. He visits the young man who killed his wife and child in prision. He takes his children with him. His fellow church members do not support his christian efforts. They have no idea how much pain this causes him. I do because I regularly talk to him on a support site. He does it because religion tells him it is the right thing to do. He's tormented by the members of his church even though he does what he's supposed to do... turn the other cheek and to love his enemies. In a conversation the other night, he told me that his 8 year old son can't wait to be baptised to cleanse him of his sins so he can see his mother again. My heart breaks for the both of them.

My other good friend is a Methodist Reverend. Her husband died 5 years ago of cancer. She and her husband lived their lives doing god's work. Part of her job is visiting the sick in the hospital and performing funerals at the same cemetery where her husband is buried. I asked her once how she did it? How do you cope?? Was it god's inspiration?

No, she says it's the PAXIL!

She called me the other day. I was shocked to find out she had quit her job at the church. She explained a woman had come up to her after service one day saying how the congregation needed her and how she inspired joy. I guess the inspiration wasn't coming from god after all?

Religion may work for some but it doe not work for all. Even the most devout will walk away while othes will stay and sacrifice their peace of mind (and that of their children) for an invisible being in the sky.