Prison statistics based on religion vs education and wealth

[yourwrong]

I set up this poll do to some other thread someone stated that atheists have less of a percentage when compared to total population of people to the amount of people in prison the statistics below this message proves this is true. But I don’t think it has to do with religion I think it has to do with education and wealth. Atheists have a percentage of 0.4 percent of United States religions but only 0.2 percent of the total population of prison. Christians/ Jews have a percentage of 78% (rounded up from 77.8%) of United Stated religion while 84% (rounded up) consist of the total population of prison. When put into a fraction of total population of prison percentage over total population of the United States percentage, atheist’s only have ½ while Christians/Jews have 14/13. So I assume from this that atheists have in general a better education and are wealthier then Christians/Jews.(please post any other theory’s to why these statistics are this way or any poll that may be more accurate then the one’s posted.)
P.S. this isn’t a Christianity vs Atheist thread it is just meant for why there is a larger portion of Christians in jail when compared to their total percentage then atheist’s.
______________________________________________________________________________

The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of inmates per religion category: Response, Number, and %----------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%

Now, let's just deal with the nasty Christian types, no?

Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Judeo-Christian Total 62594 83.761% (of the 74731 total responses) Total Known Responses 74731

The results of the Christians vs atheists in prison investigation.

Top Twenty Religions in the United States, 2001
(self-identification, ARIS)
1. Religion 1990 Est.
Adult Pop. 2001 Est.
ADULT Pop. 2004 Est.
Total Pop. % of U.S. Pop.,
2000 % Change
1990 - 2000
Christianity 151,225,000 159,030,000 224,437,959 76.5% +5%
Nonreligious/Secular 13,116,000 27,539,000 38,865,604 13.2% +110%
Judaism 3,137,000 2,831,000 3,995,371 1.3% -10%
Islam 527,000 1,104,000 1,558,068 0.5% +109%
Buddhism 401,000 1,082,000 1,527,019 0.5% +170%
Agnostic 1,186,000 991,000 1,398,592 0.5% -16%
Atheist 902,000 1,272,986 0.4%
Hinduism 227,000 766,000 1,081,051 0.4% +237%
Unitarian Universalist 502,000 629,000 887,703 0.3% +25%
Wiccan/Pagan/Druid 307,000 433,267 0.1%
Spiritualist 116,000 163,710 0.05%
Native American Religion 47,000 103,000 145,363 0.05% +119%
Baha'i 28,000 84,000 118,549 0.04% +200%
New Age 20,000 68,000 95,968 0.03% +240%
Sikhism 13,000 57,000 80,444 0.03% +338%
Scientology 45,000 55,000 77,621 0.02% +22%
Humanist 29,000 49,000 69,153 0.02% +69%
Deity (Deist) 6,000 49,000 69,153 0.02% +717%
Taoist 23,000 40,000 56,452 0.02% +74%
Eckankar 18,000 26,000 36,694 0.01% +44%


Largest Religious Groups in the USA

[Technosoul]

In America most of the people ending up in jail are Mexican or African American.

Mexican are mostly Catholics when it comes to family events.
Most African Americans would put down they are Baptist or a simular Postistant church. However a lot of Black people are also Muslem.

I think that race has more to do with it then religion - for one reason or another.

[yourwrong]

Yeah, but thats only because they have a lower education level and lower income in general. Which I am guessing is in the case of there being more christian prisoners in jail then atheists, although there is probably more to it then that ,but because of the education level and income but I think it is one of the major factors involved.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: yourwrong Yeah, but thats only because they have a lower education level and lower income in general. Which I am guessing is in the case of there being more christian prisoners in jail then atheists, although there is probably more to it then that ,but because of the education level and income but I think it is one of the major factors involved.

And that is a good example of why polls and interpretations of same is bad science.

As in your calculation most white people are atheists and so that keeps them out of jail? Nonsense.

[Technosoul]

I agree that poverty might be a factor and that less money is spent on education in poor neighborhoods then weathy neighborhoods.

But the data is incomplete because you would have to compare the numbers of atheists in country with the number of christians in a country and then compare that to the prison population ratio to see if there is any difference.

How many university educated people compared to how many poorly educated people make up our general population? If those with high educations make up 10 percent of the general population and if 10 percent of the prison popuation is the same, then your point becomes pointless.

[yourwrong]

Quote by: Technosoul But the data is incomplete because you would have to compare the numbers of atheists in country with the number of christians in a country and then compare that to the prison population ratio to see if there is any difference.

Okay, their are 62,594 christian/jews prisoners and their are 154,362,000 christians/jews in the United States so 1 out of every 2,466 christians/jews are convicts. Their are 156 athiests in prison while their are 902,000 athiests in the Unites States so 1 out of every 5,782 athiests are convicts so if your an athiest you have about 1/2 the chance of being a convict then if your a christian or a jew.

How many university educated people compared to how many poorly educated people make up our general population? If those with high educations make up 10 percent of the general population and if 10 percent of the prison popuation is the same, then your point becomes pointless.

Inside our prisons, 19% percent of adult inmates are illiterate, and up to 60% are
functionally illiterate. In contrast to this, our national adult illiteracy rate stands at 4%, with up
to 23% functionally illiterate.2

http://www.bard.edu/bpi/pdfs/crime_report.pdf

So you can see where I get the idea that christians/jews are less educated. It comes from two proven statement the first one being less education more chance of going to prison. The other being christians/jews have more of a chance of going to prison then athiests. I'm guessing christian/jews are less educated is because their generally poorer and have a lower standard of living because people with cruddy lives have more of a chance of wanting to believe in a better life. While richer more educated people generally have a higher standard of living therefore have no need for the idea of heaven because thier already leading a good life. So finally I conclude most people are christians because they are hoping for a better life then it actually being more valid of a theory then atheism.

[yourwrong]

Found proof Atheist are usually smarter then theists.

STUDIES OF STUDENTS

1. Thomas Howells, 1927
Study of 461 students showed religiously conservative students "are, in general, relatively inferior in intellectual ability."

2. Hilding Carlsojn, 1933
Study of 215 students showed that "there is a tendency for the more intelligent undergraduate to be sympathetic toward… atheism."

3. Abraham Franzblau, 1934
Confirming Howells and Carlson, tested 354 Jewish children, aged 10-16. Found a negative correlation between religiosity and IQ as measured by the Terman intelligence test.

4. Thomas Symington, 1935
Tested 400 young people in colleges and church groups. He reported, "There is a constant positive relation in all the groups between liberal religious thinking and mental ability… There is also a constant positive relation between liberal scores and intelligence…"

5. Vernon Jones, 1938
Tested 381 students, concluding "a slight tendency for intelligence and liberal attitudes to go together."

6. A. R. Gilliland, 1940
At variance with all other studies, found "little or no relationship between intelligence and attitude toward god."

7. Donald Gragg, 1942
Reported an inverse correlation between 100 ACE freshman test scores and Thurstone "reality of god" scores.

test
scores 100
50%
119
80%
%
rank
test rank test rank
believers non-believers
8. Brown and Love, 1951
At the University of Denver, tested 613 male and female students. The mean test scores of non-believers was 119 points, and for believers it was 100. The non-believers ranked in the 80th percentile, and believers in the 50th. Their findings "strongly corroborate those of Howells."

9. Michael Argyle, 1958
Concluded that "although intelligent children grasp religious concepts earlier, they are also the first to doubt the truth of religion, and intelligent students are much less likely to accept orthodox beliefs."

10. Jeffrey Hadden, 1963
Found no correlation between intelligence and grades. This was an anomalous finding, since GPA corresponds closely with intelligence. Other factors may have influenced the results at the University of Wisconsin.

11. Young, Dustin and Holtzman, 1966
Average religiosity decreased as GPA rose.

12. James Trent, 1967
Polled 1400 college seniors. Found little difference, but high-ability students in his sample group were over-represented.

13. C. Plant and E. Minium, 1967
The more intelligent students were less religious, both before entering college and after 2 years of college.

14. Robert Wuthnow, 1978
Of 532 students, 37 percent of Christians, 58 percent of apostates, and 53 percent of non-religious scored above average on SATs.

15. Hastings and Hoge, 1967, 1974
Polled 200 college students and found no significant correlations.

mean
SATs 1022
1108
1119
1148

group religious slightly
anti-
religious moderately
anti-
religious strongly
anti-
religious
16. Norman Poythress, 1975
Mean SATs for strongly anti-
religious (1148), moderately anti-religious (1119), slightly anti-religious (1108), and religious (1022).

17. Wiebe and Fleck, 1980
Studied 158 male and female Canadian university students. They reported "nonreligious S's tended to be strongly intelligent" and "more intelligent than religious S's."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STUDENT BODY COMPARISONS

1. Rose Goldsen, 1952
Percentage of students who believe in a divine god: Harvard 30; UCLA 32; Dartmouth 35; Yale 36; Cornell 42; Wayne 43; Weslyan 43; Michigan 45; Fisk 60; Texas 62; North Carolina 68.

2. National Review Study, 1970
Percentage of students who believe in a Spirit or Divine God: Reed 15; Brandeis 25; Sarah Lawrence 28; Williams 36; Stanford 41; Boston U. 41; Yale 42; Howard 47; Indiana 57; Davidson 59; S. Carolina 65; Marquette 77.

3. Caplovitz and Sherrow, 1977
Apostasy rates rose continuously from 5 percent in "low" ranked schools to 17 percent in "high" ranked schools.

4. Niemi, Ross, and Alexander, 1978
In elite schools, organized religion was judged important by only 26 percent of their students, compared with 44 percent of all students.


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STUDIES OF VERY-HIGH IQ GROUPS

%
among
IQ>140 10%
18%
62%
57%
28%
23%

belief ♂ ♀ ♂ ♀ ♂ ♀
strong little none
1. Terman, 1959
Studied group with IQ's over 140. Of men, 10 percent held strong religious belief, of women 18 percent. Sixty-two percent of men and 57 percent of women claimed "little religious inclination" while 28 percent of the men and 23 percent of the women claimed it was "not at all important."

2. Warren and Heist, 1960
Found no differences among National Merit Scholars. Results may have been effected by the fact that NM scholars are not selected on the basis of intelligence or grades alone, but also on "leadership" and such like.

3. Southern and Plant, 1968
Studied 42 male and 30 female members of Mensa. Mensa members were much less religious in belief than the typical American college alumnus or adult.

Intelligence & Religion

[Lullaby Chainer]

Here's some more

Mensa (the society for individuals with high IQ) which publishes Mensa magazine, in 2002, had an article published by Paul Bell that concluded that of 43 separate studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one's IQ and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection (those four simply found no correlation). That is, the higher one's intelligence or education level the less one is likely to be religious or hold 'supernatural beliefs" of any kind.

This study was mentioned in Richard Dawkin's book, The God Delusion.

[tivodan1116]

I don't get where you're going with this.

You start by saying this isn't a Christian vs. Atheist thread and then spend the rest of your posts comparing the two. You go so far as to call the various denominations "nasty Christian types" and use evidence to plainly infer that Christians are either stupid, or criminal, or both.

There are myriad reasons why polls might show what you have found, like Technosoul said, that is the problem with using polls as evidence. Polls do not establish a casual relationship or even a basic relationship.

To quote one of the great pieces of art of our time: "And by the way, you know, when you're telling these little stories? Here's a good idea - have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener! "

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: tivodan1116 I don't get where you're going with this. You start by saying this isn't a Christian vs. Atheist thread and then spend the rest of your posts comparing the two. You go so far as to call the various denominations "nasty Christian types" and use evidence to plainly infer that Christians are either stupid, or criminal, or both. There are myriad reasons why polls might show what you have found, like Technosoul said, that is the problem with using polls as evidence. Polls do not establish a casual relationship or even a basic relationship. To quote one of the great pieces of art of our time: "And by the way, you know, when you're telling these little stories? Here's a good idea - have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener! "

The statistics ARE the point.. it's up to you to make conclusions, observations, and express your thoughts.

[Kamehameha34]

"And by the way, you know, when you're telling these little stories? Here's a good idea - have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener! "

PLANES TRAINS AND AUTOMOBILES.

I knew that I knew it.

Sorry, just had to chime in. Continue.

[yourwrong]

I meant don't make it a christians are more more morals vs atheists are more moral. As I clearly stated I don't think religion has to do with the jail population I think it has to do with wealth. I have pretty much proved that so now I providing reasons why atheists are richer and more educated. Please form your own conjectures based on this information or refute any of my conjectures. As far as other things that could of cause these results please post proof behind that something else could of caused it.

[LadiesMan217]

I don't have any solid facts but just from personal experience and the people I have come in contact with that have been in jail, that a large number of religious people in jail find religion once they are already in jail. It makes sense to me, I mean there is not much else to do with your time in there.

[yourwrong]

Yeah I have no idea where I would be able to find the number of inmates who have converted. I think most of them though already believed in God they just become more religious in jail. But this would all be speculation because I'm never going to find a study like that.

[LadiesMan217]

Yeah I have no idea where I would be able to find the number of inmates who have converted. I think most of them though already believed in God they just become more religious in jail. But this would all be speculation because I'm never going to find a study like that.

Exactly, but I doubt they would consider themselves religious at the time in their lives when they committed whatever crimes that put them in jail. It would be an interesting study though.

[LadiesMan217]

Another point though is that in America there is something like 90%(I don't the exact number but it is quite a lot) of the people believe in some sort of god so the proportion of atheists in jail to atheists in America could be greater than the proportion of Christians in jail to Christians in America considering there would be a far less number of atheists in America.

[yourwrong]

Yeah but I came up with some pretty extreme results. Yes, their is of course going to be a margine of error die to the diffrences in numbers but still that does not explain why you have about half the chance of going to prison if your an athiest then if your a christian.

[another day]

Quote by: ladiesman217 I don't have any solid facts but just from personal experience and the people I have come in contact with that have been in jail, that a large number of religious people in jail find religion once they are already in jail. It makes sense to me, I mean there is not much else to do with your time in there.

Some probably in jail probably do experience some semblance of "finding (organized) religion" which is what unintelligent people do when faced with trouble and hardship. There is a difference between that and finding true spirituality, something likely out of reach for the corrupted minds that end up in jail in the first place.

But I digress...what I meant to say was that a lot of people "find religion" in jail because it looks good at your parole hearing.

[LadiesMan217]

Some probably in jail probably do experience some semblance of "finding (organized) religion" which is what unintelligent people do when faced with trouble and hardship. There is a difference between that and finding true spirituality, something likely out of reach for the corrupted minds that end up in jail in the first place. But I digress...what I meant to say was that a lot of people "find religion" in jail because it looks good at your parole hearing.

In times of trouble and hardship people look for comfort and I don't think they find much comfort with atheism and finding a religion would do no good for someone sentenced to life or the death penalty, although I am sure some are motivated by looking good for their parole hearing.