What should I do about my boys?

[dilligras]

Sounds like a typical family to me.....everyone in it has been thoroughly trained by example and knows one thing very well........how to push each other's buttons.

I don't think you should place much value on advice from strangers who very likely can't see their own forest for the trees in the way, despite their apparent distance from the problem. I say "apparent", because most of us have had similar conflicts with family, and will probably be addressing your problem from a personal point of view that might incline some of us unduly toward one side or the other, thereby discrediting those opinions in a way unknown to you.

Free advice is worth approximately what it costs you, especially if you know nothing of the perspective and background of the person tendering said advice.

As an example, I submit that it is very likely that if you were to survey those who have so far offered negative opinions about your stated position (and unfortunately in some cases about you as a person) you would find that they have never been a parent, are much closer in age to your sons, and therefore would logically more easily identify with them, vis a vis the parent/child relationship.

This is most overtly demonstrated by those who claim, for example, that parents need to respect their children by treating them as equals. Any sucessful parent (one whose children have grown up to be responsible, generous adults) knows that this is utter bilgewater.

Just as teachers should not have the same relationship with their students that they do with co-workers, and just as military officers should not treat enlisted personnel as equals when it comes to carrying out their assigned missions.

In families, just as in the military, somebody is supposed to be in charge and be allowed to delegate authority to subordinates. What is often neglected by those in charge, is that they must always be mindful that only authority may be delegated, and never responsibility.

It might be best, instead of my making the same mistake as others and taking sides based on so little info, that my worthless advice be confined to generalities and methodologies designed to improve communication.

To that end, I would suggest first that you do not use the spoken word in your subsequent interactions with your sons, but instead insist that they only communicate with you by email, until such time as some of the misunderstanding and antagonism has had time to dissipate.

Time.

It gives one a chance to consider possibilities and explanations of behavior other than the ones that reflexively leap to mind in the heat of verbal exchange.

Writing, instead of speaking out of the conditioned reflex that so easily locates the other's "buttons", gives one time to consider the best way to proceed -- and also comes with the cautionary knowledge that one may be held accountable in the future for what one says, for the written word is not lost upon the wind -- and not therefore dependent upon anyone having the ability of total recall to ensure that accountability.

It is this accountability (greatly mitigated among strangers here on the web) that will often prevent the hurtful, callously thrown words that result in broken homes and relationships among those we truly cherish.

Perhaps a cooling off period is warranted, though, especially given the most recent events during such a highly charged occasion as Mother's Day. I wouldn't be expecting any holiday to be greeted normally, which will save you from disappointment, at least until all this crap about money is resolved between you.

And that is exactly what it is.....crap.

Unlike others here, I would not recommend suing the ex for back child support, even though it is certainly owed. The time for that has long since passed, and if done now, would appear only to be an attempt to garner some of the windfall, and your own declaration of refusal gives me hope that at least you are somewhat aware of the appearances which must be considered, regardless of the financial cost.

Be grateful, in the meantime, for the son you have still have, and take solace in the knowledge that the others are still willing to try to patch things up, despite all the miscommunications and hurtful words.

But the best free advice on family matters I have ever heard consistently given to others is perhaps found on talk radio.......by Dr Laura Schlessinger.

I sincerely wish you luck, and would only caution you against taking anything you find here too seriously.......after all, I am also a divorced parent and grandparent, so who am I to give advice?


Carry on.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: dilligras Sounds like a typical family to me.....everyone in it has been thoroughly trained by example and knows one thing very well........how to push each other's buttons. I don't think you should place much value on advice from strangers who very likely can't see their own forest for the trees in the way, despite their apparent distance from the problem. I say "apparent", because most of us have had similar conflicts with family, and will probably be addressing your problem from a personal point of view that might incline some of us unduly toward one side or the other, thereby discrediting those opinions in a way unknown to you. Free advice is worth approximately what it costs you, especially if you know nothing of the perspective and background of the person tendering said advice.

You raise some valid points, but in the end, she ASKED for the advice and others will give what they think is proper advice, whether it's actually valuable or not.
And you're now giving advice too. It's hard NOT to.

But the best free advice on family matters I have ever heard consistently given to others is perhaps found on talk radio.......by Dr Laura Schlessinger.

Now, THERE is where I start disagreeing with you. She is just another talk show host, like many others who give opinions. She's like Dr. Phil, who gives out the same kinds of advice your parents probably would.
And with her past, it's as you say, SHE can't seem to see the forest for her own trees.

I sincerely wish you luck, and would only caution you against taking anything you find here too seriously.......after all, I am also a divorced parent and grandparent, so who am I to give advice?

Like I said, it's hard NOT to give advice, and yours is no more valid, or INvalid than anyone else has given.

The thing that annoys me, and many others, I'm sure, is that she ASKS for advice and then ignores ALL of it, sensible or otherwise.

[dilligras]

Quote by: Scribbler Quote by: dilligras Sounds like a typical family to me.....everyone in it has been thoroughly trained by example and knows one thing very well........how to push each other's buttons. I don't think you should place much value on advice from strangers who very likely can't see their own forest for the trees in the way, despite their apparent distance from the problem. I say "apparent", because most of us have had similar conflicts with family, and will probably be addressing your problem from a personal point of view that might incline some of us unduly toward one side or the other, thereby discrediting those opinions in a way unknown to you. Free advice is worth approximately what it costs you, especially if you know nothing of the perspective and background of the person tendering said advice. You raise some valid points, but in the end, she ASKED for the advice and others will give what they think is proper advice, whether it's actually valuable or not. And you're now giving advice too. It's hard NOT to.

All true......but it's still appropriate to acknowledge the real value of such advice, n'est pas?

Quote by: Scribbler Quote by: dilligras But the best free advice on family matters I have ever heard consistently given to others is perhaps found on talk radio.......by Dr Laura Schlessinger. Now, THERE is where I start disagreeing with you. She is just another talk show host, like many others who give opinions. She's like Dr. Phil, who gives out the same kinds of advice your parents probably would. And with her past, it's as you say, SHE can't seem to see the forest for her own trees.

Disagree all you want, you are welcome to your opinion, so long as you do not claim superior authority on the subject, for I listened to her nearly every day for over a year. Then I got tired of the callers whining about the same old stuff all the time.

Very seldom was I able to refute her positions based on my own life experience, however.

Of course, one should keep in mind the time constraints she is forced to work within, which makes her results rather remarkable, when compared to the years of therapy some endure for relatively little movement with their "issues."

Quote by: Scribbler Quote by: dilligras I sincerely wish you luck, and would only caution you against taking anything you find here too seriously.......after all, I am also a divorced parent and grandparent, so who am I to give advice? Like I said, it's hard NOT to give advice, and yours is no more valid, or INvalid than anyone else has given.

You feel the need to repeat yourself, evidently........do you think those here too thick to have grasped your nearly superfluous point the first time?

The thing that annoys me, and many others, I'm sure, is that she ASKS for advice and then ignores ALL of it, sensible or otherwise.

Obviously, you suffer the disappointment and annoyance invariably due those who consider their advice to have some value inherently apparent to others.

My worthless advice to you would be to simply take responsibility for the lack of endearment to your opinions, thereby avoiding such emotional stress. :)


As you were.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: dilligras You feel the need to repeat yourself, evidently........do you think those here too thick to have grasped your nearly superfluous point the first time?

No, only one, apparently.

Obviously, you suffer the disappointment and annoyance invariably due those who consider their advice to have some value inherently apparent to others.

No disappointment at all. Just as I find no disappointment in your incorrect view of what's "obvious' or your unnecessarily rude, condescending tone.

My worthless advice to you would be to simply take responsibility for the lack of endearment to your opinions, thereby avoiding such emotional stress. :)

No stress involved, but I do appreciate your honesty as regards your advice.

Sorry, but it's my own fault. I usually don't post to you and I believe I now know why.

[dilligras]

Quote by: Scribbler Quote by: dilligras You feel the need to repeat yourself, evidently........do you think those here too thick to have grasped your nearly superfluous point the first time? No, only one, apparently.

Au contraire, I not only grasped it, but even noted the fact of your apparent tendency to parrot the same trite observation more than once, in an obvious attempt to bore me into a zombie-like state of abject submission.

Quote by: Scribbler Quote by: dilligras Obviously, you suffer the disappointment and annoyance invariably due those who consider their advice to have some value inherently apparent to others. No disappointment at all. Just as I find no disappointment in your incorrect view of what's "obvious' or your unnecessarily rude, condescending tone.

Condescension is my schtick, a mere reflection of my burgeoning ego -- something of which I'm sure you are entirely bereft, being the perfect icon of human interaction that you are.

Quote by: Scribbler Quote by: dilligras My worthless advice to you would be to simply take responsibility for the lack of endearment to your opinions, thereby avoiding such emotional stress. No stress involved, but I do appreciate your honesty as regards your advice. Sorry, but it's my own fault. I usually don't post to you and I believe I now know why.

Your highly sought appreciation is duly noted and gratefully acknowledged.

As for blame, I have generally found that there is seldom a paucity of pandering purveyors of perfidiousness, n'est pas?

If you should desire to discontinue the exchange due to some perceived shortcoming on my part, I will gleefully use the occasion to once more give reference to my username, which is, as you may be aware, an acronym in need of a question mark.


As you were.

[liberalscum]

Of course it's all about the money.
aand in the end, who gets the trailer.

[dilligras]

Ah yes, trailers.........sweet memories.

[rich_t]

Quote by: dilligras Sounds like a typical family to me.....everyone in it has been thoroughly trained by example and knows one thing very well........how to push each other's buttons. I don't think you should place much value on advice from strangers who very likely can't see their own forest for the trees in the way, despite their apparent distance from the problem. I say "apparent", because most of us have had similar conflicts with family, and will probably be addressing your problem from a personal point of view that might incline some of us unduly toward one side or the other, thereby discrediting those opinions in a way unknown to you. Free advice is worth approximately what it costs you, especially if you know nothing of the perspective and background of the person tendering said advice. As an example, I submit that it is very likely that if you were to survey those who have so far offered negative opinions about your stated position (and unfortunately in some cases about you as a person) you would find that they have never been a parent, are much closer in age to your sons, and therefore would logically more easily identify with them, vis a vis the parent/child relationship. This is most overtly demonstrated by those who claim, for example, that parents need to respect their children by treating them as equals. Any sucessful parent (one whose children have grown up to be responsible, generous adults) knows that this is utter bilgewater. Just as teachers should not have the same relationship with their students that they do with co-workers, and just as military officers should not treat enlisted personnel as equals when it comes to carrying out their assigned missions. In families, just as in the military, somebody is supposed to be in charge and be allowed to delegate authority to subordinates. What is often neglected by those in charge, is that they must always be mindful that only authority may be delegated, and never responsibility. It might be best, instead of my making the same mistake as others and taking sides based on so little info, that my worthless advice be confined to generalities and methodologies designed to improve communication. To that end, I would suggest first that you do not use the spoken word in your subsequent interactions with your sons, but instead insist that they only communicate with you by email, until such time as some of the misunderstanding and antagonism has had time to dissipate. Time. It gives one a chance to consider possibilities and explanations of behavior other than the ones that reflexively leap to mind in the heat of verbal exchange. Writing, instead of speaking out of the conditioned reflex that so easily locates the other's "buttons", gives one time to consider the best way to proceed -- and also comes with the cautionary knowledge that one may be held accountable in the future for what one says, for the written word is not lost upon the wind -- and not therefore dependent upon anyone having the ability of total recall to ensure that accountability. It is this accountability (greatly mitigated among strangers here on the web) that will often prevent the hurtful, callously thrown words that result in broken homes and relationships among those we truly cherish. Perhaps a cooling off period is warranted, though, especially given the most recent events during such a highly charged occasion as Mother's Day. I wouldn't be expecting any holiday to be greeted normally, which will save you from disappointment, at least until all this crap about money is resolved between you. And that is exactly what it is.....crap. Unlike others here, I would not recommend suing the ex for back child support, even though it is certainly owed. The time for that has long since passed, and if done now, would appear only to be an attempt to garner some of the windfall, and your own declaration of refusal gives me hope that at least you are somewhat aware of the appearances which must be considered, regardless of the financial cost. Be grateful, in the meantime, for the son you have still have, and take solace in the knowledge that the others are still willing to try to patch things up, despite all the miscommunications and hurtful words. But the best free advice on family matters I have ever heard consistently given to others is perhaps found on talk radio.......by Dr Laura Schlessinger. I sincerely wish you luck, and would only caution you against taking anything you find here too seriously.......after all, I am also a divorced parent and grandparent, so who am I to give advice? Carry on.

I agree. You said it very well.