Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Prometheus · May 20, 2005, 07:17 pm

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Sounds great but often times the religious person takes offence at statements that were not meant to insult

Great point, many religeous people need to grow up and get thicker skins.

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If I call someone a vacuous git and they have not been behaving as a vacuous git then that is an insult but if they have been then it is not

Agreed in principal, but you and I know that there are less inflamatory ways of saying the same thing.

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Just so happens that people who deceive, lie, defraud and manipulate do not like to be called cheaters, liars, frauds or con artists. It is well known that crooks do not like being called crooks. Well tough shit. Stop being a crook. If you are dishonest and lie to yourself then stop doing it otherwise expect to be called dishonest.

I do beleive in God, but I am not about to claim that I can proove it to you. Am I a liar by stating what I beleive? I know what I beleive, so I kind of think you have to beleive me on that one.

I don't think it matters to you anyway, but don't worry about offending me. I'm debating here on principal, not out of some kind of warm and fuzzy delusions on my part.

btw, it's "dog in the fight", not "dog in the hunt"

OberonDOtherseid · May 20, 2005, 08:15 pm

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Quote by: Starboy

Hey you asked the question as to how I could suspect that you were dishonest. I appreciate your live and let live attitude but your posts indicate that you are most likely lying to yourself. You are at least being dishonest with yourself.

Starboy

Tell me how YOU came to that conclusion, oh wise one. Or do you expect me to play Alex Trebec and vailidate your conslusion with a question? :rolleyes:

Starboy · May 21, 2005, 12:25 am

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Quote by: Prometheus

I do beleive in God, but I am not about to claim that I can proove it to you. Am I a liar by stating what I beleive?

The thing about dishonesty is that you can come to the correct conclusion but through dishonest means. One form of this is called cheating. And you can honestly come to incorrect conclusions. This happens to people all the time, myself included. If you are genuinely interested in determining if you have come by your beliefs honestly then you must ask yourself several questions and examine the answers carefully.

1) Are there god(s) that you do not believe in?
2) If there are such god(s) then why do you not believe in those god(s)?
3) Have you applied the same standards to the god(s) you believe in to the god(s) that you have decieded not to believe in? In other words do you practice a double standard?

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btw, it's "dog in the fight", not "dog in the hunt"

In the south we say "dog in the hunt". Hunting is very popular down here.

Starboy

Starboy · May 21, 2005, 12:29 am

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Quote by: OberonDOtherseid

Tell me how YOU came to that conclusion, oh wise one. Or do you expect me to play Alex Trebec and vailidate your conslusion with a question? :rolleyes:

I don't expect you to do anything. That is up to you. In any case I have asked you several questions. Do with them what you will.

Starboy

Prometheus · May 21, 2005, 02:18 am

Starboy:

Sorry about the colloquial misunderstanding. Here the rednecks fight dogs.

Anyway, I like the point you make about the double standard. What you propose is that since I prayed to god in a christian context to seek truth, I should also pray to buddah and shiva to see if I have the same experiance. I appreciate this point, but there is one mistake you are making - most religions claim to be exclusively true, so if you somehow learn that one is true, the rest are known to be false. Of course that brings the bias of the first religion you experiance in to question...

Good questions. It's too late for me to think though.

FIFI · May 21, 2005, 02:51 am

I just wanted to say that insulting anyones beliefe's and / or opinions is not acceptable to me, and that Volconvo should be an open place where everyone should feel free to voice themselves.

Ok, done playing nice, see you in the threads! :)

Vee · May 21, 2005, 08:52 am

Based solely on page 1 of 9 I'm inclined to agree with Mr Vicchio. I expected apologist posts following that up as I thought the offender might have just been letting off steam and thats why Mr V took it to the Boiler Room (unless of course the thread was moved)

Gorgo · May 21, 2005, 09:12 am

It was taken to the Boiler Room. There was no "offender." Just because someone irrationally takes umbrage at a reasonable comment does not mean that someone has insulted them.

Let's remember that this whole thread began with Mr. Vicchio's attempt to insult homosexuals by telling us that, upon finding out that one of his future children were homosexual he would tell them to pray to Jesus, meaning, that if someone were homosexual, there is something fundamentally deficient about them.

Vee · May 21, 2005, 09:27 am

I did not see the post so cannot say that was his intent but Mr V as a devout Christian would say that no matter who his child was.

Gorgo · May 21, 2005, 09:34 am

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Quote by: Vee

I did not see the post so cannot say that was his intent but Mr V as a devout Christian would say that no matter who his child was.

And as a skeptic and atheist, I would say that I would rather have my child be mentally healthy and homosexual, than to seriously talk to imaginary friends.

Starboy · May 21, 2005, 12:22 pm

In a way you could say that Mr. Vic was insulting rationalists and that if he was an even somewhat rational person he might be able to see it from the other side. It does bring up a point. On a debate board do people who hold to irrational ideas and thus cannot defend them rationally be considered the antithesis of the spirit of debate and thus have no business posting here or is Volconvo not so much a debate board but just an opinion board?

Starboy

OberonDOtherseid · May 21, 2005, 12:53 pm

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Quote by: Starboy

I don't expect you to do anything. That is up to you. In any case I have asked you several questions. Do with them what you will.

Starboy

Why not just spew out a useful recipe or something since you have determined yourself useless in this topic?

Cephus · May 21, 2005, 02:34 pm

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Quote by: Prometheus

Anyway, I like the point you make about the double standard. What you propose is that since I prayed to god in a christian context to seek truth, I should also pray to buddah and shiva to see if I have the same experiance. I appreciate this point, but there is one mistake you are making - most religions claim to be exclusively true, so if you somehow learn that one is true, the rest are known to be false. Of course that brings the bias of the first religion you experiance in to question...

But how do you learn if one is true if you never test any others? Most people simply pick the religion that appeals to them (or just whatever they were taught as kids) and never dare question whether or not what they believe is reality and test it objectively.

If they did, there would be very few theists.

Cephus · May 21, 2005, 02:37 pm

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Quote by: Gorgo

And as a skeptic and atheist, I would say that I would rather have my child be mentally healthy and homosexual, than to seriously talk to imaginary friends.

Hear Hear!

I'd rather both of my daughters turn out to be lesbians with a healthy, normal outlook on life and reality than a closed-minded religious zealot.

**Sean** · May 22, 2005, 09:24 am

Oberon, please keep it on topic.

OberonDOtherseid · May 22, 2005, 12:44 pm

Sorry. Sean....

OberonDOtherseid · May 22, 2005, 05:48 pm

Wait a sec...this is the boiler room!! Look at the others man...are they ALL on topic??

I can see getting after me on the political threads, but the boiler room? I didn't even call anyone or any group a name! LOL!!!

Matrixxx · May 22, 2005, 06:04 pm

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Quote by: OberonDOtherseid

Sorry. Sean....

What're you, a glutton for punishment? You didnt do anything wrong. you spoke your opinion and starchumpnumbnuts doesnt want to accept it so he asks you to repeat yourself. chephus slams religious people by calling them zealots and uses lesbians to make a point which is nothing complimentary to the gays and you get told shit? this place is loaded with fucking crybabies. why do you put up with it?

OberonDOtherseid · May 22, 2005, 06:11 pm

No comment, not that I don't agree.....I already have 2 points for doing less.

**Sean** · May 22, 2005, 07:21 pm

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Quote by: Matrixxx

What're you, a glutton for punishment? You didnt do anything wrong. you spoke your opinion and starchumpnumbnuts doesnt want to accept it so he asks you to repeat yourself. chephus slams religious people by calling them zealots and uses lesbians to make a point which is nothing complimentary to the gays and you get told shit? this place is loaded with fucking crybabies. why do you put up with it?

Actually Matrix "Why not just spew out a useful recipe or something since you have determined yourself useless in this topic?" does not have anything to do with debate. It is just something to cause a total meltdown of any discussion.

Oh, and if you are truly being called names specifically by users here you have a right to report posts Matrix. Not having that much respect for a specific belief, however, really is just inevitability in an opinionated society.

Oberon, yea tons of the old topics are garbage, but we changed the forum since then for new topics. The forum is wide open for any debate, and low on moderation, but posts can still be reported, and if we feel the topic is being destroyed we can step in. Also, do not make it sound as if I would warn you for criticizing me. I warned you only for insults, and trust me, I have been quite forgiving about past insults

May 21, 2005, 02:18 am	#85 (permalink) (top)
Prometheus Glad to be back! Location: Vernal, UT Posts: 1,725	Starboy: Sorry about the colloquial misunderstanding. Here the rednecks fight dogs. Anyway, I like the point you make about the double standard. What you propose is that since I prayed to god in a christian context to seek truth, I should also pray to buddah and shiva to see if I have the same experiance. I appreciate this point, but there is one mistake you are making - most religions claim to be exclusively true, so if you somehow learn that one is true, the rest are known to be false. Of course that brings the bias of the first religion you experiance in to question... Good questions. It's too late for me to think though. Fixed ideas are like a cramp in the foot - the best remedy against it is to tread on it. -Søren Kierkegaard

May 21, 2005, 02:51 am	#86 (permalink) (top)
FIFI THROBBIN ROBIN Location: USA Posts: 311	I just wanted to say that insulting anyones beliefe's and / or opinions is not acceptable to me, and that Volconvo should be an open place where everyone should feel free to voice themselves. Ok, done playing nice, see you in the threads! :) DON'T TAKE AWAY MY RIGHTS JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T EXERCISE YOURS. Better to be thought a fool with ones mouth shut, than to speak and remove all doubt

May 21, 2005, 08:52 am	#87 (permalink) (top)
Vee Igneous Magma Posts: 370	Based solely on page 1 of 9 I'm inclined to agree with Mr Vicchio. I expected apologist posts following that up as I thought the offender might have just been letting off steam and thats why Mr V took it to the Boiler Room (unless of course the thread was moved) Australian Political Discussion Site Aussies: Welcome to the Rudd Regime Yanks: Welcome to Hell Now Purgatory. Others: G'day mate.

May 21, 2005, 09:12 am	#88 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	It was taken to the Boiler Room. There was no "offender." Just because someone irrationally takes umbrage at a reasonable comment does not mean that someone has insulted them. Let's remember that this whole thread began with Mr. Vicchio's attempt to insult homosexuals by telling us that, upon finding out that one of his future children were homosexual he would tell them to pray to Jesus, meaning, that if someone were homosexual, there is something fundamentally deficient about them. Last edited by Gorgo; May 21, 2005 at 09:25 am.

May 21, 2005, 09:27 am	#89 (permalink) (top)
Vee Igneous Magma Posts: 370	I did not see the post so cannot say that was his intent but Mr V as a devout Christian would say that no matter who his child was. Australian Political Discussion Site Aussies: Welcome to the Rudd Regime Yanks: Welcome to Hell Now Purgatory. Others: G'day mate.

May 21, 2005, 12:22 pm	#91 (permalink) (top)
Starboy BANNED: Repeated insults Posts: 4,828	In a way you could say that Mr. Vic was insulting rationalists and that if he was an even somewhat rational person he might be able to see it from the other side. It does bring up a point. On a debate board do people who hold to irrational ideas and thus cannot defend them rationally be considered the antithesis of the spirit of debate and thus have no business posting here or is Volconvo not so much a debate board but just an opinion board? Starboy

May 22, 2005, 09:24 am	#95 (permalink) (top)
Sean former overlord Location: New York Posts: 2,383	Oberon, please keep it on topic.

May 22, 2005, 12:44 pm	#96 (permalink) (top)
OberonDOtherseid Logic Via Reality Posts: 653	Sorry. Sean.... George Bush kicks ass and takes names in 2005!!

May 22, 2005, 05:48 pm	#97 (permalink) (top)
OberonDOtherseid Logic Via Reality Posts: 653	Wait a sec...this is the boiler room!! Look at the others man...are they ALL on topic?? I can see getting after me on the political threads, but the boiler room? I didn't even call anyone or any group a name! LOL!!! George Bush kicks ass and takes names in 2005!!

May 22, 2005, 06:11 pm	#99 (permalink) (top)
OberonDOtherseid Logic Via Reality Posts: 653	No comment, not that I don't agree.....I already have 2 points for doing less. George Bush kicks ass and takes names in 2005!!