Why do you care if people believe in God?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready One mans insult is another mans poetry. Thats the price of free speech Vic, remember what that is?

Free speech from government control, thus "free speech".


There are insults and there are non-insults, free reign to insult others should not and cannot be allowed on a forum. Unless you want to lose posters.

[OberonDOtherseid]

It's "free speech" until they cry to Sean and ask for bannings....Vich, you know the score. Keep under the radar and let them prove you right.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid It's "free speech" until they cry to Sean and ask for bannings....Vich, you know the score. Keep under the radar and let them prove you right.

Actually Sean and I had a great little talk on this.

For the record, I don't recall ever asking to ban anyone over this issue, just to curb the blatent attacks.

And that's all I am asking.

[Samildanach]

Religion is a mental disorder, I dont see it as an insult, its the plain truth as far as I can see and sometimes the truth hurts as is evidenced by Mr Vic.

[RickSp]

Mr. V is simply a hypocrite who wants it both ways.

On one hand he claims that to suggest that religion is a mental disorder is an insult.

On the other hand, he himself posts that homosexuality is a metal disorder. It appears that he believes that homosexuality is not a naturally occurring biological variation but an unnatural set of preferences, choices and beliefs adopted by adults.

So it is not OK to claim that religion, which is itself a set of beliefs and choices, is a mental disorder while it is just fine and dandy to make the same claim about homosexuality, which Mr. V seems to believe is another set of choices and beliefs.

Sure looks like hypocrisy to me.

[castille]

Well if religous people get to call foreigners and homos "evil", then yes, I believe everyone has the right to call religous people "stupid".

[Gorgo]

Also, Mr.Vicchio has nothing to back up his idea that homosexuality is a mental disorder. He starts by saying that it isn't "natural," whatever that means and then ends by arguing with himself and saying that it doesn't matter if it's natural or not.

We have a great deal to back up the idea that religion is an irrational idea and he has never challenged the substance of that claim, as he never challenges the substance of any claim with any substance at all.

edited to say that I would not call religious people stupid. One can be very bright and very irrational at the same time.

[Cephus]

Yeah, I'd say religion is a mental disease. If someone shoves their hand in their coat and claims to be Napoleon, we put them away. If someone wanders around the streets talking to invisible people, we put them away.

Why should someone who prays to an invisible sky daddy be any different? Just because lots and lots of people believe it doesn't make it so. It just means that the majority of humans are superstitious fools who need to believe in imaginary friends to make it through the day.

Of course, Mr. V will get offended by this, but last I checked, there was no right not to get offended.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Do you believe your father is your father? How do you know? You WANT to believe....and if a paternity test showed he was not you may say "well, he's the only father I know"..that is a belief system.

But I don't want to confuse you with logic. Being a fucking nutter is in of itself quite different then being one with ones own beliefs ..thinking, feeling and trusting with a SANE and logical mind. Those who think that the universe around them along with their existence has to make sense on their level is a fucking fruitcake if you ask me. Aside from self indulgence, self important rhetoric there is no reason why you should have the capicity to expect to understand what is obviously over your head. That is why the dead never return to tell tales...you clearly wouldn't be able to handle it and mankind would cease to exist as it is.

I guess common sense just isn't so common with some. :rolleyes:

[Starboy]

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid That is why the dead never return to tell tales...you clearly wouldn't be able to handle it and mankind would cease to exist as it is.

Yet another bullshit claim about something for which there is no evidence and no way of getting any. How conveinient. Funny thing about that oberon. Apparently you can see the delusion and stupidity in other claims of the after life from other religions but you lack the honesty, depth and integrity to see it in your on superstitions. You lie to yourself thus you lie to everyone.

Starboy

[Samildanach]

But I don't want to confuse you with logic. Being a fucking nutter is in of itself quite different then being one with ones own beliefs ..thinking, feeling and trusting with a SANE and logical mind.

Hmmm let me see if I understand what you are trying to say here.....what you are saying is that a 'sane' person who truely believes in some kind of invisible being who lives in the sky is different from a 'crazy' person who truely believes in an invisible being who lives in the sky. Sane being defined as someone who is, apart from believing in an invisible being, as functional as any other normal person day to day. A crazy person being defined as someone who is cannot function in todays world day to day.
There are plenty of functional alcoholics and drug abusers who get up and work like normal people and plenty of people who have such strong addictions they cannot function in the real world because of it. Really you are just talking about a different level of addiction in these cases. In the same way looking at the parrallel we are really just talking about a different level of insanity. The parallel is quite convincing even down to the treatment level. Denial being the first obstacle to overcome.

Those who think that the universe around them along with their existence has to make sense on their level is a fucking fruitcake if you ask me. Aside from self indulgence, self important rhetoric there is no reason why you should have the capicity to expect to understand what is obviously over your head

Why should the universe around you not make sense? We have evolved (or been created) for this environment whichever way you believe (whether we evolved over a billion years or god created us) we would have the best senses to deal with what is here. The only reason you could make such an assertion is if you thought 'God' was untrustworthy enough to stiff you on the senses he could have given you. Self indulgence or self important rhetoric has nothing to do with fact.

[Mia]

OK, on this natural thing. First, pedophiles are natural, in that they occur in nature, don't 'choose' to be attracted to children (they can't help it). That doesn't make it NATURAL in the sense of NORMAL which is how many use the word natural. And it doesn't make it OK, does it?

And please don't say I can't use the term abnormal to describe homosexuals. It means: 'deviating from the normal or average', which is certainly the case here.

I am not equating homosexuality to pedophilia. But simply drawing the correlation that because it occurs in nature isn't an argument that it's right.

Many things in nature occur naturally, like canibalism as has been mentioned.

Then everyone screams about these comparisons, when you are the ones who brought them on yourself by claiming the 'occuring in nature' argument.

So let's dispense with that one, shall we?

Homosexulity is abnormal, UNnatural, in the sense of how our bodies were obviously built, and considered immoral and deviant by most.

Society is starting to come around and be quite accepting of it, which I am happy about since gays don't choose it and don't harm anyone as a result of it. Even as a Christian I cannot condemn it else I condemn every other person the same for their particular sins (including myself).

I am on gays's side in terms of equal rights and treatment, I have to say I favor civil unions instead of marriage mainly because otherwise it opens the door to polygamy and who knows what else, but I am sick of it being pushed down my throat that it's perfectly normal and NATURAL and just a perfectly acceptable choice (to those for whom it is one). So call me a gay basher, I don't care. Everyone in here is trying to be a little too PC.

[Mia]

On the other hand, Logjam, responding to your post in the 'adios amigos' thread, since we're off topic in there, where on earth do you get the idea that gay people who adopt kids are going to make THEM gay? It's biology. You hold the opinion that gays 'choose' to be, but all scientific evidence says otherwise, as does every gay person who has posted in here, and every one I have known..

The people you say you know who were heterosexual and then decided to be homosexual were probably hiding and TRYING to be hetero.

There are so many guys I went to college with that acted hetero to fit in and years late finally admitted the truth. "Remember Stephanie, the girlfriend you never met? That was actually Stephen").

Stangely, (or maybe not), these were all frat guys. Of course I guess that would make sense. 1) Playing the hetero part to the hilt, and 2) getting to be around a lot of cute guys all the time!

[OberonDOtherseid]

Why should the universe around you not make sense? We have evolved (or been created) for this environment whichever way you believe (whether we evolved over a billion years or god created us) we would have the best senses to deal with what is here. The only reason you could make such an assertion is if you thought 'God' was untrustworthy enough to stiff you on the senses he could have given you. Self indulgence or self important rhetoric has nothing to do with fact.

If you choose to believe that it should make ABSOLUTE sense to you on a equal level with yourself, why are you having this debate with me? You already know the answer, right? Probably not...Paul Revere was shot off his horse...why not shoot Jesus Christ..right?

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: Starboy Yet another bullshit claim about something for which there is no evidence and no way of getting any. How conveinient. Funny thing about that oberon. Apparently you can see the delusion and stupidity in other claims of the after life from other religions but you lack the honesty, depth and integrity to see it in your on superstitions. You lie to yourself thus you lie to everyone. Starboy

I haven't lied to anyone, nor myself. If you choose to not believe, that is YOUR destiny my friend. That you choose on your own without any say on my part.

Go the way you choose, as will I.

[Rave7pt0]

Why are you all being a bunch of faggots?







Just kidding. What I mean to say is, why can't we step it down a notch and stop taking our selves so damn seriously all the time? Being right all the time has no intrinsic value.

[castille]

Remember "Inquisitor"?

[Cephus]

Quote by: Mia OK, on this natural thing. First, pedophiles are natural, in that they occur in nature, don't 'choose' to be attracted to children (they can't help it). That doesn't make it NATURAL in the sense of NORMAL which is how many use the word natural. And it doesn't make it OK, does it?

Not sure where you can find animal species PURPOSELY having sex with pre-breeding age members of their species. If you'd like to point that out, then maybe you might have a case for pedophilia being natural.

And please don't say I can't use the term abnormal to describe homosexuals. It means: 'deviating from the normal or average', which is certainly the case here.

In that case, being blonde is abnormal. Depending on where you are in the world, being white is abnormal. Who says there's anything wrong with being abnormal?

Many things in nature occur naturally, like canibalism as has been mentioned.

Of course it does and canibalism happens in human societies as well. What's the matter with it?

Homosexulity is abnormal, UNnatural, in the sense of how our bodies were obviously built, and considered immoral and deviant by most.

There was a time when blacks were considered sub-human by most too. Did that make it right?

I am on gays's side in terms of equal rights and treatment, I have to say I favor civil unions instead of marriage mainly because otherwise it opens the door to polygamy and who knows what else, but I am sick of it being pushed down my throat that it's perfectly normal and NATURAL and just a perfectly acceptable choice (to those for whom it is one). So call me a gay basher, I don't care. Everyone in here is trying to be a little too PC.

Exactly how does it open the door to polygamy or anything else? I get really tired of people claiming that somehow, gay marriage is just the next step to bestiality and pedophilia and all this other nonsense. Um... in case you didn't know, most bestialists and pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL!

Homosexuals are absolutely identical to heterosexuals in every way except the gender of the person they choose to spend their lives with. They are no more prone to divorce, they are no more prone to violence, they are no more prone to promiscuity than the heterosexual community. They're just people who deserve the same respect and equality that most of us have enjoyed our entire lives.

[Samildanach]

Ahh but if you take the global popul ation of humans as a whole you could probably chart the deviations on the global curve, anything that fell into the curve could be defined as normal including homosexuality any current skin color that exists today etc etc. To use the word abnormal you would then compare the new thing to the curve. eg a human having four arms would be 'abnormal' or fluroscent skin..

[Starboy]

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid I haven't lied to anyone, nor myself. If you choose to not believe, that is YOUR destiny my friend. That you choose on your own without any say on my part.

Hey only a dishonest person could make this statement:

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid That is why the dead never return to tell tales...you clearly wouldn't be able to handle it and mankind would cease to exist as it is.

You have no more evidence for thinking this than you do for claims about the after life that you reject. If you were honest with yourself you would admit this and would not make such claims.

Go the way you choose, as will I.

As if I have not? All I am doing is commenting on the scenery along the away. If you do not want comments made on your dishonesty then do not be dishonest. Or at least have the sense to just keep it to your self.

Starboy