Why do you care if people believe in God?

[Wizzle]

So what GIVES you the right to insult people that have a firm belief in God

Have you heard of Jerry Springer:The Opera? It's a satirical musical and we had a bit of fuss over it being broadcast by the BBC. The head of an organisation called Christian Voice was most annoyed about the broadcast as, he said, "it offends my God" and he wanted it stopped. What right would he have had to impose his religious beliefs and sensibilities on me?

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Laws certainly do teach. You break a law and you're punished. You learn not to do that, assuming the punishment causes great discomfort. Morality is not something that should be guided. It's a set of personal choices that each person should make on their own.

Ahh, yes, I'm sure the millions of repeat offenders agree with you. Morality is guided by our own experiences, what our morality is is guided for s, like it or not. We can't all of a sudden choose to see rape as right.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Cept for law, family, society, and philosophy. Yes, they teach you. They pose the inevitable question of.. why is killing someone deserving of punishment? Either way, they also work. I live by the law, as do a ton of other people, and I can assure you there's nothing scary about living next to me. I'd be more afraid to live by someone who has a 'only God shall judge me' attitude.

We abide by the law because we fear punishment, that's not teaching, that's training. If you let a bunch of moraly decrepit congressmen determine what moral code you live by, I assure you I'll shuffle out of the room.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Cept for law, family, society, and philosophy.

Well, if you think of evil for what it is - danger to oneself from one's society - you think to yourself, "I'd like to have as many weapons against evil as possible." Why throw out any of them?

Think of religion as one thread in the net that saves you from a Hobbesian life that is nasty, brutish, and short. Why unravel even one thread in your net?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary We abide by the law because we fear punishment, that's not teaching, that's training.

It is teaching. When I was little I stole a piece of candy from a gas station. When the clerk got mad, I learned that there were laws that said not to steal. And if you kept stealing you'd get more than just a spanking. Thus, I learned that stealing was wrong and I was led down the realization of why this law existed.

Quote by: God_Mercenary If you let a bunch of moraly decrepit congressmen determine what moral code you live by, I assure you I'll shuffle out of the room.

Huh.. Well I'm not going to kill you. I can't steal anything from you. I can't violently insult you. I can't follow you as soon as you leave. I can't offer you drugs.

Mercenary, you're being overly sensitive to prove a point that just isn't going to work. :[

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: fushigi Well, if you think of evil for what it is - danger to oneself from one's society - you think to yourself, "I'd like to have as many weapons against evil as possible." Why throw out any of them?

Because I view a "only God shall judge me" attitude as a weapon FOR evil.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer It is teaching. When I was little I stole a piece of candy from a gas station. When the clerk got mad, I learned that there were laws that said not to steal. And if you kept stealing you'd get more than just a spanking. Thus, I learned that stealing was wrong and I was led down the realization of why this law exists.

Really? My mom told me not to steal because it was wrong, plain and simple. I did not have to fear punishment to learn this. And I'm not talking about children, children are more afraid of the clerk's anger and dissapointment than the abstract law.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Because I view a "only God shall judge me" attitude as a weapon FOR evil.

Not all believers of all religions feel that "only" God will judge them. I mostly hear that from ex-cons I knew in Detroit and New Orleans - it's a way to deny that prison or life outside sucks the life out of you, 100%.

For most, God is just one of the entities you piss off when you do evil deeds. Just one more deterrent.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Really? My mom told me not to steal because it was wrong, plain and simple. I did not have to fear punishment to learn this. And I'm not talking about children, children are more afraid of the clerk's anger and dissapointment than the abstract law.

Well I'm glad you were a better kid than I was but yes.. really.

I don't see that you've replied to this..

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Huh.. Well I'm not going to kill you. I can't steal anything from you. I can't violently insult you. I can't follow you as soon as you leave. I can't offer you drugs. Mercenary, you're being overly sensitive to prove a point that just isn't going to work. :[

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: fushigi Not all believers of all religions feel that "only" God will judge them. I mostly hear that from ex-cons I knew in Detroit and New Orleans - it's a way to deny that prison or life outside sucks the life out of you, 100%. For most, God is just one of the entities you piss off when you do evil deeds. Just one more deterrent.

Yes, and for many many people.. this attitude of their only significant judgment being secured by repenting is enough for them to do very very evil things.

I didn't say every single believer had that attitude.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Yes, and for many many people.. this attitude of their only significant judgment being secured by repenting is enough for them to do very very evil things.

Are you really arguing that those same people wouldn't commit crimes if they weren't religious?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: fushigi Are you really arguing that those same people wouldn't commit crimes if they weren't religious?

Yup. It's a extremely powerful mindset to be able to escape all meaning in this-world punishment.

[Wizzle]

You're all arguing about the individual's interpretation of their religion.
President Bush oversaw the deaths of many prisoners on death row which to my mind isn't the act of a true christian

A person's piety is no guarantee of good behaviour.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Huh.. Well I'm not going to kill you. I can't steal anything from you. I can't violently insult you. I can't follow you as soon as you leave. I can't offer you drugs. Mercenary, you're being overly sensitive to prove a point that just isn't going to work. :[

It's not being overly sensitive, I'm honestly put off by those who think laws are a basis for morality. And I'm talking about people in general, not just you, you don't live near me, as demonstrated by your holy roller classmates.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Yup. It's a extremely powerful mindset to be able to escape all meaning in this-world punishment.

Umm, but if you're an atheist, you don't even have that little road block, and if you depend on "repenting" and intend to do so while you commit the crime, most christians would say that that doesn't ount as repentance, you're supposed to be sorry because you love God and those around you, not just because you don't want to go to hell.

[fushigi]

Quote by: fushigi Are you really arguing that those same people wouldn't commit crimes if they weren't religious?

Quote by: lullaby Yup. It's a extremely powerful mindset to be able to escape all meaning in this-world punishment.

I wonder if a study would really prove that religious faith and crime have a positive relationship. When I have time, maybe I'll hunt. Sounds like a very questionable hypothesis.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Umm, but if you're an atheist, you don't even have that little road block, and if you depend on "repenting" and intend to do so while you commit the crime, most christians would say that that doesn't ount as repentance, you're supposed to be sorry because you love God and those around you, not just because you don't want to go to hell.

I'm confused. Are you saying it's bad that atheists don't have that little road block? That "road block" is a very very bad mindset and yes.. atheists don't have the luxury of screwing this world 'cause the next is where it's at.. so long as they repent.

Perhaps you meant something else..

Also, it doesn't take a psychologist to realize that the average f*ck-up joe that is under such a mindset can easily repent from his heart.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary I'm sure the millions of repeat offenders agree with you.

Some people don't learn.

We can't all of a sudden choose to see rape as right.

Of course we can. That's what happens with each choice that we make.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer I'm confused. Are you saying it's bad that atheists don't have that little road block? That "road block" is a very very bad mindset and yes.. atheists don't have the luxury of screwing this world 'cause the next is where it's at.. so long as they repent. Perhaps you meant something else.. Also, it doesn't take a psychologist to realize that the average f*ck-up joe that is under such a mindset can easily repent from his heart.

Well, we do have that luxury, and it's completely temporary, so what you do doesn't matter a whole lot in the scheme of things, so screw up all you want, it probably won't even affect me. And I'm using your logic to come to the quoted conclusion, I obviously don't think that atheists are less capable of moral living than theists. You're right, if you make a mistake, and are truly sorry, God's supposed to forgive you, but if you premeditate repenting after you kill a guy, Most christians would say God's not going to look too kindly upon that.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Who merged all these and dumped the threads????


At least have the chutzpah to say something!