Why do you care if people believe in God?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: fushigi And you wouldn't say that you're intolerant towards Christians or their views?

Most of my closest friend are Christians. Course not. I'm intolerant towards intolerance.. that's about it.

Why?

[fushigi]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer Most of my closest friend are Christians. Course not.

This reminds me of white guys who say, "Me? Racist? No way! Many of my friends are black!"

How do they feel about you wanting to abolish their belief system? Would they consider that an act of tolerance?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: fushigi This reminds me of white guys who say, "Me? Racist? No way! Many of my friends are black!" How do they feel about you wanting to abolish their belief system? Would they consider that an act of tolerance?

I don't mention their beliefs unless I see intolerance towards others.. for instance when they start talking bad about some gay kid I always defend the gay kid.. but rarely do I ever mention their beliefs in the conversation. I leave that to debate sites and to those who acknowledge they want to challenge my beliefs.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer I don't mention their beliefs unless I see intolerance towards others.. for instance when they start talking bad about some gay kid I always defend the gay kid.. but rarely do I ever mention their beliefs in the conversation. I leave that to debate sites and to those who acknowledge they want to challenge my beliefs.

So they don't know that you want to abolish religion?

Do you think they'd consider you a tolerant person if they did?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: fushigi So they don't know that you want to abolish religion? Do you think they'd consider you a tolerant person if they did?

I never said I wanted to abolish religion. I said I wanted to criticize it.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer I never said I wanted to abolish religion. I said I wanted to criticize it.

Which means you are intolerant of it, no?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: fushigi Which means you are intolerant of it, no?

I'm intolerant of intolerance. I want to criticize the hateful delusions of the Bible that spawn intolerance.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: Isherwood Yet when I say the same thing about religion, I get disagreement. Why is that?

Not from me. You'll get me saying hate when and if you are a jerk about it. Saying you disagree is FINE! Being mean spirited is not.

THAT'S my point.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer I'm intolerant of intolerance. I want to criticize the hateful delusions of the Bible that spawn intolerance.

But isn't there another way, other than criticizing religion of all kinds?

If I asked you to reform (since you have stated yourself that you do not wish to abolish it) religion - actually, let's just leave it at Christianity for simplicity's sake - what changes would you make? What reforms would you like to see for Christianity?

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: fushigi But isn't there another way, other than criticizing religion of all kinds?

Criticizing religion of all kinds is just one way. It's a pretty good topic to address too, in my opinion.

Quote by: fushigi If I asked you to reform (since you have stated yourself that you do not wish to abolish it) religion - actually, let's just leave it at Christianity for simplicity's sake - what changes would you make? What reforms would you like to see for Christianity?

It would require removing the ignorant hate. I'm not sure what you'd be left with .. hm ..

Belief in a god is fine.. I don't oppress people for believing in gods. The REASON I wish to criticize religion is because it is a very large source of intolerance and nonsensical hate.

But seriously, what are you leading up to with all of these questions?

[fushigi]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer But seriously, what are you leading up to with all of these questions?

I just wonder how you propose believers could reform religion in a way that would satisfy your demands. If there isn't a way, I would say you're advocating abolishing religion.

[Lullaby Chainer]

Quote by: fushigi I just wonder how you propose believers could reform religion in a way that would satisfy your demands. If there isn't a way, I would say you're advocating abolishing religion.

No, I'm combating intolerance and hatred. :] If we get more atheists out of it, so be it, if we lose some fundamentalists, then good, if Christians learn to view the Bible with skepticism, especially the hateful parts, then it's all for the better. Either way, I'm not going to just sit here and let hatred and intolerance run freely.. infecting our government and my children's future.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Lullaby Chainer if Christians learn to view the Bible with skepticism, especially the hateful parts, then it's all for the better. Either way, I'm not going to just sit here and let hatred and intolerance run freely.. infecting our government and my children's future.

But do you really think vicious invective is a good motivator to get Christians to view the bible with skepticism?

By vicious invective, I mean comments like calling religion a "a lethal and counter-productive delusion." I think when most Christians hear that, it only makes them more reactionary and closes their minds that much more.

[Mr.Vicchio]

When I hear that my first thought is to feel sorry for the poor hate filled person saying it. My second thought is "Can I get away from this person without making a scene?"

[iclaudius]

Quote by: Autolykos There are no rights in an objective, empirical sense. To claim otherwise would be to invoke the reification fallacy. Rights "exist" only within human minds; therefore, they are subjective. If you have any more questions, I suggest you read this blog post of mine: What Are Rights? - Rob

Ok... so do you believe that something can be truly and legitimately justified, or do you believe that true morality is subjective? Do you believe that all moral codes are legitimate in which actions they justify, regardless of your own personal value system? And do you believe that value systems are inherently equal in their ability to judge right and wrong?

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Yes, the USSR, NK and China are all perfect examples of No religion enabling great happy people!

You're not understand the semantics.


No one is claiming that evil things will not be done if religion is gone.


They will be done.



Doing an evil thing makes you an evil person.


IE, all those people in the USSR, China, whatever, doing evil things are evil people.




Simply, religion is the only way that a person can do an evil thing and still be a good person.

Get it?

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Simply, religion is the only way that a person can do an evil thing and still be a good person. Get it?

Right, your logic fails completely. Unless you are going to say that the USSR NK and China all believe themselves to be evil people doing evil things. Not good Comrades doing for Mother Russia, or the Party or whatever.


Please explain how you can justify that statement. Because last time I checked, each of those countries told and tell their people they are the good guys, and that what they are doing is good! Just like the Nazi's.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Unless you are going to say that the USSR NK and China all believe themselves to be evil people doing evil things.

I don't care what they believe. They are evil people.


Religion is the only institution that a person who does evil things can simply wash himself free of those things and become a good person as if they didn't ever happen.

[ItsDarts]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Right, your logic fails completely. Unless you are going to say that the USSR NK and China all believe themselves to be evil people doing evil things. Not good Comrades doing for Mother Russia, or the Party or whatever. Please explain how you can justify that statement. Because last time I checked, each of those countries told and tell their people they are the good guys, and that what they are doing is good! Just like the Nazi's.

It's nice that you bring up only nations that were/are communist (which in now way equates to atheism on a whole). Why didn't you bother to mention nations like Switzerland, Norway, and Sweden all "secular government" nations (note I didn't say atheistic) that have some of the lowest crime rates, no involvements in religious or holy wars? These nations have freedom of religion but the truth is, they aren't very religious on the whole. Note that where religiosity is the strongest, the internal strife is also way high, i.e. MIddle East, America, UK. Even if we look at Japan "Since WWII", their religiosity has dwindled, their economy is one of the strongest and the crime rate again, one of the lowest. Nations DO thrive without religion in their government.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 I don't care what they believe. They are evil people. Religion is the only institution that a person who does evil things can simply wash himself free of those things and become a good person as if they didn't ever happen.

But yet those people in those other countries aren't afforded that belief, just religious people?


Yeah... okay.