Is bad grammar a sign of low intelligence

[Jack]

By my teacher's assessment and my own agreement, my interpreting skills and use of proper ASL grammar is lousy. Does that make me unintelligent?

Apples to oranges. You're discussing a skill you developed as an adult, similar to an adult learning a second language. We were discussing those who misuse language in such a way as to be purposefully unintelligible in a context where communication is valued over artistic expression. We're here to share ideas, not as an audience to someone's creative abuse of English. In this context (the forum), clear communication is an ideal. The closer we come to that ideal, the better we communicate our ideas.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Isherwood Apples to oranges. You're discussing a skill you developed as an adult, similar to an adult learning a second language. We were discussing those who misuse language in such a way as to be purposefully unintelligible in a context where communication is valued over artistic expression. We're here to share ideas, not as an audience to someone's creative abuse of English. In this context (the forum), clear communication is an ideal. The closer we come to that ideal, the better we communicate our ideas.

No, if you read the first post, my post is fully in the context, and also was not a direct response to any of you. I am talking of Deaf people who don't develop a first language in the first place if not taught ASL.

[Aeris]

First of all, I find this an insanely interesting topic. I've written a couple papers involving sociolinguistics for fun. So, to start with the original question of the thread: No, I do not believe that bad grammar is equivalent to low intelligence.

Bad grammar can be due to any combination of a number of things, one of which is admittedly low intelligence. But also, there is efficiency of communication, ease of dilectal communication (i.e. devience from the standard grammar of the larger linguistic group for ease of communication among the smaller linguistic group like AAVE or even signed English.) Other reasons can be rooted in matters of politeness - lack of care or respect for the situation at hand or the person with whom the speaker is communicating.

Ultimately, if you are able to communicate your idea, you're golden in my book. Really all grammar is is a system to help convey ideas in an orderly fashion.

[Scribbler1]

How about not being intelligent enough to LEARN proper communication skills?

If you can see you aren't getting your message across to people and you know you can at least improve that chance by learning how to communicate, I would say you are pretty damned dumb for refusing to do so.

In Pam's case, she seemed to have the attitude that since she supposedly had something intelligent to say the rest of the forum was somehow obligated to listen, even after being told people couldn't understand her. That doesn't show much intelligence to me.

[Aeris]

Quote by: Scribbler1 How about not being intelligent enough to LEARN proper communication skills? If you can see you aren't getting your message across to people and you know you can at least improve that chance by learning how to communicate, I would say you are pretty damned dumb.

I suppose I did leave that reason out and admittedly that is a very large one, but is it the most common?

[ZNFYRH]

I think the thread has derailed too far from the initial point...

Someone who is capable of correct grammar and spelling chooses to use the opposite.

Is doing so in an online forum (which is dependent on both) a sign of low intelligence?

[Aeris]

I don't think so...I think its a sign of sheer laziness in that context.

People are lazy animals when it comes to language. Since (on the whole) producing text is more laborious than producing speech even the most eloquent speaker may take shortcuts; most especially in as informal a situation as a forum.

[ZNFYRH]

I would say instead that when someone chooses a medium of communication that relies completely on grammar and spelling, making the choice to fail in both areas and presuming that choice to be acceptable is unintelligent.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Aeris I don't think so...I think its a sign of sheer laziness in that context. People are lazy animals when it comes to language. Since (on the whole) producing text is more laborious than producing speech even the most eloquent speaker may take shortcuts; most especially in as informal a situation as a forum.

Yes, but this isn't a cell phone. It's not THAT informal.
One thing that makes this stand out is the fact that text messages on a cell phone are disposable. Anything you type here has a MUCH longer lifespan and is seen by a lot more people.
I understand the reason why that kind of "shorthand" is acceptable when texting but this is different.

And while typing is indeed more labor intensive than text messaging or chatroom dialogue, it is also more time consuming, which can be used to avoid blurting out something stupid.
That in itself can reduce the perception of a low level of intelligence in some people, come to think of it.

[Wizzle]

[Is bad grammar a sign of low intelligence?

No, but it is bloody annoying.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Aeris First of all, I find this an insanely interesting topic. I've written a couple papers involving sociolinguistics for fun. So, to start with the original question of the thread: No, I do not believe that bad grammar is equivalent to low intelligence. Bad grammar can be due to any combination of a number of things, one of which is admittedly low intelligence. But also, there is efficiency of communication, ease of dilectal communication (i.e. devience from the standard grammar of the larger linguistic group for ease of communication among the smaller linguistic group like AAVE or even signed English.) Other reasons can be rooted in matters of politeness - lack of care or respect for the situation at hand or the person with whom the speaker is communicating. Ultimately, if you are able to communicate your idea, you're golden in my book. Really all grammar is is a system to help convey ideas in an orderly fashion.

So if there were a forum like volconvo that used video posts and ASL instead of written English, that proper ASL grammar and syntax would be acceptable?

As for the "deviance" parentheses, I would disagree, since most Deaf people use ASL and not SE. However, I have no clue what AAVE is. Now, I have a videophone call to make. All you happy people have fun.