Is bad grammar a sign of low intelligence

[Slevin57]

It's all a matter of opinion. I do not have the best grammar in the world. I post alot, so sometimes I get carried away with the message and forget about grammar.

[pam699]

good point
as a side issue
rcne
states
one aspect of intelligence testing is vocabulary and word comprehension

with your example of the deaf
surely that showes IQ tests are rubbish in determining intelligence

[p1drobert]

Quote by: pam699 so u r saying even if i mispell and have no punctuation so long as u understand me then there is no problem so why be so preocupied good grammer when that is required is communication -like this sentence is bad but u understand me -so why be so nit picky with correct english if u know a word is mispelt the idea has then ben communicated anyway so why bother with english clasess then so long as i communicate my ideas -even in bad english

I don't think I understood any of that. If I was interviewing someone for a job and I read that on their resume they could forget about getting a job working for me. If they wrote like that on the job they'd better start looking for another one.

Theres a big difference between a small slip and the constant butchering of the english language. I always see this thing as either laziness, stubborn ignorance, or stupidity. Either way, its not a good thing.

I received an email from my 13 year old niece the other day. It seemed like it was written by a 5 year old. All that SMS type shortened words and poor grammer.
It made me worry for her future.

[pam699]

hey if u ran a nuclear laboratory and a bad grammer einstiEn type submitted that resuume WELL YOU WOULD BE THE LOSER BY NOT GIVING HIM THE JOB

[pam699]

u see that is probable the reason society is f..ked
unintelligent teachers and bossess are not giving the inteligent bad grammer people the work-but instead giving the good grammer idiots the work

but what can you expect from a society that belives
bad grammer =low intelligence
the deaf and dyslectic einstiens of this worlds are just going to waste- due to good grammer idiots runing the place

[Mozart1220]

AS someone who "sees words" instead of sounding them out, I had so much trouble figuring out what Pam699 was going on about I put her on ignore. I suggest the rest of you do the same. She's only doing this for attention. I'm through providing it.

[pam699]

as a side issue
rcne
states
one aspect of intelligence testing is vocabulary and word comprehension

with your example of the deaf
surely that showes IQ tests are rubbish in determining intelligence

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: pam699 hey if u ran a nuclear laboratory and a bad grammer einstiEn type submitted that resuume WELL YOU WOULD BE THE LOSER BY NOT GIVING HIM THE JOB

Oh, I dunno. If he sends a message to the fire captain that says:

mrgnc rektr us bluwd upp in fiive mintss knied fyr cruewsa nd u shuld proly evackuwaite tu an dcal teh guvt sos it cun gets peepl owt teh arias cal teh bos

They might regret it. The place would blow before the captain could decipher the message or even realize its relevance.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: pam699 u see that is probable the reason society is f..ked unintelligent teachers and bossess are not giving the inteligent bad grammer people the work-but instead giving the good grammer idiots the work but what can you expect from a society that belives bad grammer =low intelligence the deaf and dyslectic einstiens of this worlds are just going to waste- due to good grammer idiots runing the place

Gee. And here, I thought that what was wrong with the world was extreme self interest acting to the detriment of others, coupled with uneven distribution of resources and humanity's potentially violent nature.

Slaps forehead. How could I have missed it?

[Anna]

Quote by: p1drobert I received an email from my 13 year old niece the other day. It seemed like it was written by a 5 year old. All that SMS type shortened words and poor grammer. It made me worry for her future.

A curious comment is made here. Can we consider that the "SMS type shortened words" is in fact an abuse of the language, or is it part of the normal evolution of the language?

If you had existed (and I am certain you likely did) 40 years ago, and people wrote details of experience with terabytes and megabits, suggesting that their bandwidth was insufficent, would you not have thought them crazy, for nothing more than the language they used not being part of what is commonly accepted?

We may not like the SMS speak that we see so much of today, but you can bet everything you have got that this kind of "code" will be eventually incorporated into the great lexicons as acceptable English.

I note that there is also references aplenty to bad spelling as well as poor grammar being responsible for the consideration of an individual as being of low intelligence. Strange, when numerous studies have proven time and time again that the students with the best ideas and highest intellects, are often the ones with the worst spelling and grammar skills.

Why is this so? The theory is that their brains are more focussed on the issue they are dealing with, or reporting on, ensuring that they convey the information that is required, and how it is spelled, or how the sentence is structured is a secondary concern.

[pam699]

THANK YOU ANNA
quote
I note that there is also references aplenty to bad spelling as well as poor grammar being responsible for the consideration of an individual as being of low intelligence. Strange, when numerous studies have proven time and time again that the students with the best ideas and highest intellects, are often the ones with the worst spelling and grammar skills.

GO SUCK EGGS THE BOSSESS WHO WOULD NOT GIVE THE JOB TO THE EINSTIEN WITH A BAD GRAMMER RESUME

YOUR LOSS AND THE WORLDS
DUMB ASS teachers and bossess have cost the world countless einstien types-go shoot them

this is a prime example of what was suggested in another post ie humans are a dumb ass species
the dumb assess are running the place -what sort of species would let dumb asess rise to the top and run it -only a dumb ass species

[Jack]

Strange, when numerous studies have proven time and time again that the students with the best ideas and highest intellects, are often the ones with the worst spelling and grammar skills.

Instead of posting the same thing over and over and over again, why don't you supply us with links to these studies. I'd like to see one.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Anna A curious comment is made here. Can we consider that the "SMS type shortened words" is in fact an abuse of the language, or is it part of the normal evolution of the language?

It's a shortcut. A lazy way to use the language necessary for speed when text messaging. That's fine as far as that technology goes, but it has no business spilling over into the non-texting world.

We may not like the SMS speak that we see so much of today, but you can bet everything you have got that this kind of "code" will be eventually incorporated into the great lexicons as acceptable English.

That may well happen, but it isn't happening NOW in educated circles. You are free to use it, but with that freedom comes the risk of being seen as a poorly educated twit.

It's like Ebonics, a cheesy way to distance oneself from a larger group. As Ebonics was dismissed by even mainstream Blacks, so is "SMS" speak by mainstream America.
It's your right to use it, and my right to ignore anyone who uses it.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: pam699 GO SUCK EGGS THE BOSSESS WHO WOULD NOT GIVE THE JOB TO THE EINSTIEN WITH A BAD GRAMMER RESUME YOUR LOSS AND THE WORLDS DUMB ASS teachers and bossess have cost the world countless einstien types-go shoot them

Make sure you tell the welfare office clerk that when you apply for food stamps. I'm sure they will be suitably impressed by your brave, nonconformist attitude.

[pam699]

hey isherwood give us some links which prove bad grammer = low intelligence -put your money where your mouth is then

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: pam699 good point as a side issue rcne states one aspect of intelligence testing is vocabulary and word comprehension with your example of the deaf surely that showes IQ tests are rubbish in determining intelligence

No it doesn't, my post was to show RCNE the issue with taking such a dominant stand on the discussion. As there is no absolute rule on this, stating absolutely, as he did, left him with a logical fallacy, and that is something that I have seen you do here too, so don't go tooting your horn on that.

IQ tests are accurate so far as they are used with native users of the language they are written in. If they had an IQ test for the Deaf, it would likely be done in ASL for the word comprehension or grammer and it would follow the rules of ASL.

[Sarah22]

Even if bad grammar does not necessarily mean that the person has low intelligence, it shows laziness and/or lack of education.
Using poor grammar is percieved as low intelligence, whether it is or is not true. If you want to be percieved that way, go ahead- make sloppy posts with numerous grammatical errors.

[pam699]

but if on the IQ test was a test to see if you could work out to steel a chicken
how many who get high scores would get a low scores by not knowing how to steel a chicken-street wise intelligence as distinct from book/ word learned so called intelligence ;

[rcne]

Quote by: pam699 hey isherwood give us some links which prove bad grammer = low intelligence -put your money where your mouth is then

Here is one, do a goggle search for more.

ED301248 - Vocabulary, Intelligence, and Reading Comprehension. Result Details ERIC #: ED301248 Title: Vocabulary, Intelligence, and Reading Comprehension. Authors: Gabriel, Dennis; Richards, Irving Descriptors: Community Colleges; Correlation; Intelligence Tests; Reading Comprehension; Reading Tests; Scores; Test Selection; Test Validity; Testing Problems; Timed Tests; Two Year College Students; Two Year Colleges; Vocabulary Skills Publication Date: 1988-08-00 Pages: 28 Pub Types: Reports - Research Abstract: A study was conducted at Cuyahoga Community College to test the relationship between student scores on timed and untimed reading comprehension and vocabulary tests, and to investigate the relationship between those scores and intelligence. The study sample included 72 students enrolled in classes at developmental, freshman, and sophomore levels. The students were given the Nelson Denny Reading Test (NDRT) both as a timed and an untimed test, and their NDRT results were compared with their scores on the Degrees of Reading Power (DRP) test and on the Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test (PPVT). Study findings, based on the scores of the 57 students who took all three tests, included the following: (1) the DRP and NDRT measured different types of reading communication; (2) the DRP tended to overestimate students' reading abilities, and underestimate the number of high-risk students; (3) the vocabulary section of the NDRT showed potential for use to estimate students' academic potential; and (4) reading comprehension and intelligence were correlated. (AJL)

My spelling is atrocious, but I use a spell-check. Try it sometime.

[pam699]

so now we have your study and anna'.s both contradictiing each other- yours says
quote
reading comprehension and intelligence were correlated.

and annas apparently says the oppoist-
i take anna to be telling the truth about her study-or do you think she is lieing isherwood
again isherwood you are a real help in proving deans veiw that all ends in meaninglessness

thanks

i will anticipate your reply isherwood
1
you will say no i am not saying she is lieing

and i will say
well then logically in terms of the exculded middle the only other alternative is then she must be teling the truth
i will say then
thus you and her prove deans view that all ends in meaninglesness beause your and her study contradict each other

2 you might say i cant accrept her study till i see proof of it
and i will say
but isherwood you accpt the scientist claim that the laws of physics will be the same in the morning with out proof so u dont need proof to belive something but you want belive annas claim with out prof ohhhhhhhhh isherwood - again you contradict yourself and proof deans views