Is bad grammar a sign of low intelligence

[bishop]

this thread has no useful purpose.

[Chris the Chees]

Why should I care about your ideas if you lack the basic courtesy to make your post easily intelligible?

Because my ideas are substantially better than anyone else’s?

But on a serious note, it kind of annoys me that those with problems such as dyslexia are automatically slated as fool because it is harder for us to express our selves through written language. It is not a matter of us lacking the will or 'basic courtesy', but that we have to try so much harder than most.

As I am in the process of applying to study for my Masters, I find the charge of stupidity rather unfair and, putting modesty aside, inaccurate.

Though having said all that, those who use 'text speak' irritate me. This is a forum for serious discussion, not a chat room.

EDIT: Sorry, i didn't realise this thread was locked.

EDIT Mark II: I hold faith that this thread maybe salvageable and after a brief discussion we have decided to reopen the thread, but move it to a more appropriate forum.

[Epistemologist]

da intahnet is for da komon pee pol u go HELL! no educated

quote

ovoidance is sign of afriad person

NOOOOOOOOOOO hooooooooooo haawaawaawaw igorence is bad so gramer not nesesery for smart pee pol becose its misile anus topic otherrwise why not gramer subjoct in skool????????

Okay, now I'll divert from the sarcasm. If you really have a choice about using bad grammar, i.e. you are actually able to write clearly, then why not do it at least here on the forum? People will understand you then.

Now, if you don't know much English, then still that's okay, but it's better to say that. Otherwise, there's not much use being defiant in the board. Also consider my possibility of writing your posts in poetic form in order to promote a more "active" flow of ideas while being somewhat rebellious (within an acceptable margin of tolerance).

[Kamehameha34]

Excessive conventional errors show a lack of respect for your opponents, your own arguments, and for the forum.

[RickSp]

Quote by: pam699 if einstien was not the typical suck ass wanker fame seeking egotist he should have written his books in bad grammer and when u refused to publish him just said F...K YOU stay in the dark ages and u know what u all would deserve that for being so f...king grammer anal

LOL. And now you insult Einstein because he didn't publish incoherent, non-grammatical ramblings? This just gets funnier and funnier.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Chris the Chees But on a serious note, it kind of annoys me that those with problems such as dyslexia are automatically slated as fool because it is harder for us to express our selves through written language. It is not a matter of us lacking the will or 'basic courtesy', but that we have to try so much harder than most.

I think we can agree that the problems encountered by those with dyslexia and other reading and/or speech impairments are real and should not be underestimated or made light of. The list of gifted dyslexics is long, from daVinci to Edison to Picasso, to mention only three.

This being said, that doesn't seem to be the point that pam699 is trying to make.

[phoenix_fire]

@pam:

Considering the medium in which I am reading the posts of others, when I see systematically poor grammar and spelling, I will first check to see if the poster might be from a situation in which English was not his/her first language. If that is not the case, then yes, poor grammar and spelling (and punctuation for that matter) usually lower my estimation of one's intelligence. Here it is a case that perception is paramount. You may be intelligent. You may be far more intelligent than I. But if you present yourself in a manner that is most commonly adopted by those of lower intelligence, do not be surprised if you are lumped into that category. If, by the way, you have difficulty with spelling, the Firefox Browser 2 has a built-in spell checker. I highly recommend it.

I would also note as an addendum that poor spelling and grammar are often used in unintelligent posts. If what one has to say is good, I can find myself ignoring distracting errors.

[Kamehameha34]

Excellent suggestion, phoenix. He'll spend 20 minutes correcting the underlined text and have lest time to dedicate multiple threads to the same asinine subject

[pam699]

but u cant say for all my bad grammer that i am not makinng some intelligent points and communicating with u all because u do understand my points
so bad grammer dont = low intelligence and a bad garmmer written book can still be be very worthy as a contribution to knowledge-
so why get so hung up on grammer when you all know you would read a book written in bad grammer if it made u money or got you what you wanted -u would not care less about the bad grammer then

[ZNFYRH]

pam669,

I find that when someone has a habit of posting the way you do, I just don't bother reading their posts. The whole point of posting here is so others can see what you have to say. If you don't shape your statements in a way that is legible, grammatical, and spelled correctly, you are only posting to please yourself.

As such, if you're posting on a public Internet forum only to please yourself, that's rather unintelligent. Thus the perception.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: RickSp I think we can agree that the problems encountered by those with dyslexia and other reading and/or speech impairments are real and should not be underestimated or made light of. The list of gifted dyslexics is long, from daVinci to Edison to Picasso, to mention only three. This being said, that doesn't seem to be the point that pam699 is trying to make.

No, but it is the point I am making. And I must say, it does irritate me when I am slated as stupid because my grammar and spelling are not perfect (far from it, in fact).

In my experience, people who attack grammar and spelling of their opponent, as opposed to the argument being put forth, are lazy and usually lack the strength of position and/or intellect to form a cohesive rebuttal.

[ZNFYRH]

But consider that your spelling and grammar are the "language" of your post. How would you respond to someone in person who mispronounced words and completely botched up how they speak?

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: ZNFYRH But consider that your spelling and grammar are the "language" of your post. How would you respond to someone in person who mispronounced words and completely botched up how they speak?

One of my best friends has a serious speach impedement, yet is much smarter than I am - thus I think you picked a poor analogy.

[Gods_Mercenary]

Quote by: pam699 but u cant say for all my bad grammer that i am not makinng some intelligent points and communicating with u all because u do understand my points so bad grammer dont = low intelligence and a bad garmmer written book can still be be very worthy as a contribution to knowledge- so why get so hung up on grammer when you all know you would read a book written in bad grammer if it made u money or got you what you wanted -u would not care less about the bad grammer then

Bad grammar does, however=lack of respect for others and is guaranteed to get you laughed at. I would read any book if it made me money or got me stuff, it doesn't mean i would enjoy it or not laugh at the apparent lack of attention put into the book.

[ZNFYRH]

Chris the Chees,

It's a highly accurate analogy. Does your highly intelligent friend with a speech impediment frequently participate in heated discussions in large groups? Or does he understand that an inability to clearly communicate means that he will encounter more trouble?

The analogy is also accurate because grammar and spelling are a choice. If pam669 came out and said he/she was dyslexic, I would point to:

Quote by: pam669 mis quote In quatum world chaos rules, but their even an order apears. bad grammer but u still get the meaning

A speech impediment is not a choice. Speaking like an ignorant fool, either verbally or textually, is.

[Chris the Chees]

Does your highly intelligent friend with a speech impediment frequently participate in heated discussions in large groups?

I have no doubt that he attends seminars, which require a degree of group discussion.

Or does he understand that an inability to clearly communicate means that he will encounter more trouble?

Trouble? You mean people would think he is a fool because he speaks differently? No, I doubt he would ecncounter 'trouble', and if he did the person giving him trouble would be doubly guilty stupidity.

the simple fact of the matter is that to people with an ounce of sense, content is of greater importance than presentation.

[Jack]

content is of greater importance than presentation.

I agree. Which is why being able to convey that content to me in an understandable way is important. If I can't comprehend it, the content is lost.

[ZNFYRH]

That's the key. Content is more important, but if your presentation is inadequate then it is truly lost. Thus, I still think grammar and spelling are important.

[phoenix_fire]

Quote by: pam699 but u cant say for all my bad grammer that i am not makinng some intelligent points and communicating with u all because u do understand my points so bad grammer dont = low intelligence and a bad garmmer written book can still be be very worthy as a contribution to knowledge- so why get so hung up on grammer when you all know you would read a book written in bad grammer if it made u money or got you what you wanted -u would not care less about the bad grammer then

I haven't really seen anything interesting enough from you to keep me fighting the structure of your posts. Poor grammar, spelling, and punctuation are a turn off. If someone posted something kinda stupid, but used correct writing conventions, I would probably still read it because it would be easy to read. However, if someone posted exactly the same thing but neglected writing conventions, I would skip over it halfway through and probably be wary of that person's posts in the future.

Furthermore, based on your posts on poetry, I cannot figure out whether you are intentionally writing poorly to fit some philosophy, or whether you are using that philosophy to justify your lax posting. I find both these possibilities annoying. That puts you lower in my considerations than a poster who simply has trouble with mechanics. As others have mentioned before, it rather connotes an arrogance on your part. I use "connote" because you may not be aware that it comes across in that manner. These things make your posts a unique case.

Finally, books are not published containing (many) errors. That is what editors are for. Publishers recognize the importance of good and coherent presentation.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: Isherwood I agree. Which is why being able to convey that content to me in an understandable way is important. If I can't comprehend it, the content is lost.

Oh come now, the spelling and grammar would have to be truly dire to be utterly incomprehensable.

For example: -

“he that is taken in bataylle is in thraldome as a scaue or seruaunt that taketh hym / he ought not to be slyne / For why the decree affermeth hyt sayenge / that syth at a man is in prison mercy is due to hym”

If language such as that is understandable (and it most certainly is) then even some of the more tragic examples of presentation here can be read.

PS, the extract was from Christine De Pisan, The Book of Fayttes of Armes and of Chyualrye, translated by William Caxton, edited by A. T. P. Byles, (London, 1937), p. 222.