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Blaster Sarge · Feb 16, 2007, 09:14 pm

Mass disputes are going on in congress as to if this act is acceptable and ethical. So I figured why not see what the common people think.

What do the people here think of abortion? Is it acceptable to take a human life? Is it okay to abort an unborn child to help the injured and the wounded? As most know, aborted fetuses are rich in stem cells, which could be compared to "mimic" cells, taking to the cells around it and replicating itself to their like. Other methods of retrieving such cells are difficult and impractical, as they . However, they can save lives, and can heal the injured, such as the burn patients. But the question is, is it right to have this happen? Should the option be left up to the mother, or should the goverment put their foot down, disallowing it entirely?

State your opinion of abortion here.

(If there is already a thread dedicated to this, my folly, I'm new)

Osborn F Enready · Feb 16, 2007, 10:21 pm

My stance on abortion:

If the child is "in the mother" and connected via umbillical cord, it is not an individual and not entitled to individual rights. In this case, the mother can choose to abort like any other private surgery, until the child is birthed (cesarian or natural).

As a man, I don't think men have a right to force women to carry if they choose not to, since the child is the mothers physical burden except in the economic sense.

I personally, frown on late-term abortions as I believe rational people, except for extreme scenarios, should and would make the choice to abort much earlier for all people involveds sake, including the doctors and the individuals involved, but I think no law should infringe here.

I don't think any level of government has a right to step into abortion, and all women possess the natural right to abort(starvation, self injury, dehydration), so they should also have that right legally with doctors who perform the surgery of free-will.

(edited to add this about stem-cells)
As far as stem cells go, I think if a fetus is going to be used for stem cells, it must have both individuals (mother-father) permission in contract signature, since it contains both peoples genes.

Blaster Sarge · Feb 16, 2007, 10:33 pm

I completely agree with what you say. You can not say you are killing an innocent life if it is, in essence, a parasitic sort of being. It does not even have any sort of brain developed at the early stages.

People tend to argue that we may be killing "the next Albert Einstien (sp?)," but not doing something with stem cells for the people who are already sick and dying could effectively be doing he same thing.

Also, think of the children. If the woman can not abort, and must carry through, and the baby is born, the child would more than likely be sent to a foster home or be shunned, which could just lead to more food shortegas and more crime.

nilan3000 · Feb 17, 2007, 01:17 am

As far as my opinion on this issue goes, I dont think its even relevant for us to go into the technical details as to whether the baby is a person or not. If the parents dont want it then they should have the right to abortion because in most cases the baby is better off beng killed in the womb than being forced to live a terrible life once it is born.

I know many people who have had neglected childhoods and bad pasts, they all wish their suffering was ended in the womb rather than being forced to live a life that brings nothing but suffering. Hardcore religious fanatics and narrow minded 'pro life' geeks might disagree, but the harsh truth is that it is better to end someones suffering in the womb before it gets worse in the real world.

boyo1991 · Feb 17, 2007, 01:59 am

"the parents dont want it then they should have the right to abortion because in most cases the baby is better off beng killed in the womb than being forced to live a terrible life once it is born."

first what if you gave it up for adoption and at least give it a fighting chance?and second, if they are going to abortion, they should only be able to if they used a condom, and the condom broke, then there is nothing that they can do about it, but if they didnt, then its just a strait forward... but thats just my thoughts...

shawmutt · Feb 17, 2007, 02:36 am

my post from a prior abortion thread:

Life begins at conception. From the time the two pair of DNA match up and start splitting life as we know it is created. My wife had a miscarriage last year, the baby stopped growing at five weeks. It was heartbreaking and took us many months to even work up the desire to try again. It affected us profoundly. She is currently seven weeks pregnant--every day I expect the bad news. Our first sonogram is Monday. Sorry, I'm digressing--can you tell where my head is?

Anyway--I am personally against abortion. If a friend or family member told me they were thinking of it I would try my best to talk them out of it.

That being said, I am completely against making abortion illegal. Legal abortion should always be an option, even if that option is exploited by a minority. The picture, painted by pro-lifers, of the typical woman getting an abortion is very very skewed. Furthermore, if a woman does not want a baby, the woman will not have the baby, either by legal abortion, coat hanger in a back alley, or dumping it in the trash can. My momma always said (when I was really bad) that she gave me life and she can take it away from me. Of course, she was only joking...I think...

<rant>Personally, I have a serious problem with the local anti-abortionists. Many are right-wing nut jobs who want to protect unborn babies but don't give a damn about them after they are born. They don't want government programs like welfare and expect people without boots to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps". They complain about the poor people and "retards" ruining the downtown area. They support war and capital punishment. They stand outside with their gruesome pictures (which were really great to see the first months after my wife's miscarriage, let me tell you) and harass any female going into the clinic. Why aren't they out harassing the men who got the woman pregnant? Why aren't they spending the time doing something useful for society, like adopting children or volunteering to help children? Why are the parents of the kids my wife teaches picketing outside an abortion clinic instead of at home helping their kids learn to read past a first grade level (my wife teaches third)???</rant>

**Matt W** · Feb 17, 2007, 04:52 am

There is an abortion thread. A huge one. Go here:

Does life begin at conception? I think it does.

Please, look around before creating new topics.

Amolibri · Feb 17, 2007, 09:49 am

Excellent "rant" shawmutt! I agree. We have a weekly "picket fest" of mostly elderly white people at our local Planned Parenthood...I once stopped to talk about adoption, and they wouldn't even let me speak. I tell you, it's scary!

GraceAustin · Feb 17, 2007, 10:36 am

[quote=Blaster Sarge;342443]Mass disputes are going on in congress as to if this act is acceptable and ethical. So I figured why not see what the common people think.
What do the people here think of abortion? >>>>>>

1. One question was "should government put their foot down?" The first thing to recognize is that abortion has been deemed Constitutional. The only group that can 'put its foot down' is the Federal Supreme Court, or by process of a constitutional amendment. An amendment requires 2/3 of Congressional approval, and ratification by 3/4 of the States.

2. Secondly, on the subject of aborted fetus' being used for stem cell cell research; Science does NOT rely on abortions to gather stem cells. The most promising cells are those which have formed within the first DAYS of conception, before they merge to begin the process of creating a human. These cells are undifferentiated, meaning they have yet to take the form of any human tissue. These cells reside in labs, in a frozen state, and are leftovers from couples attempting artificial insemination. If not used for research, they are eventually destroyed. They are NOT 'babies.' George Bush has denied science the use of these cells, other than the few lines science was using prior to his presidency.

3. Next question was "is it acceptable to take a human life?" To answer that question, you first must define when one becomes 'human.' Some think it's at the moment of conception, even before cells become human tissue. Some think it's when the nervous system is formed....& so on. But for the purposes of 'abortion', my opinion will be based on feelings rather than intellect. I say "no", it isn't acceptable, and therefore would never have an abortion. HOWEVER, do I have the right to tell other women what to do with their bodies, and do I have the right to tell other women how their bodies will be used? My answer is "no, I do not." Therefore, abortion is a matter of choice.

Feb 16, 2007, 09:14 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Blaster Sarge I pwn God. Location: Solar System, Milky Way. Posts: 4	The Abortion Debate. Mass disputes are going on in congress as to if this act is acceptable and ethical. So I figured why not see what the common people think. What do the people here think of abortion? Is it acceptable to take a human life? Is it okay to abort an unborn child to help the injured and the wounded? As most know, aborted fetuses are rich in stem cells, which could be compared to "mimic" cells, taking to the cells around it and replicating itself to their like. Other methods of retrieving such cells are difficult and impractical, as they . However, they can save lives, and can heal the injured, such as the burn patients. But the question is, is it right to have this happen? Should the option be left up to the mother, or should the goverment put their foot down, disallowing it entirely? State your opinion of abortion here. (If there is already a thread dedicated to this, my folly, I'm new)

Feb 16, 2007, 10:21 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	My stance on abortion: If the child is "in the mother" and connected via umbillical cord, it is not an individual and not entitled to individual rights. In this case, the mother can choose to abort like any other private surgery, until the child is birthed (cesarian or natural). As a man, I don't think men have a right to force women to carry if they choose not to, since the child is the mothers physical burden except in the economic sense. I personally, frown on late-term abortions as I believe rational people, except for extreme scenarios, should and would make the choice to abort much earlier for all people involveds sake, including the doctors and the individuals involved, but I think no law should infringe here. I don't think any level of government has a right to step into abortion, and all women possess the natural right to abort(starvation, self injury, dehydration), so they should also have that right legally with doctors who perform the surgery of free-will. (edited to add this about stem-cells) As far as stem cells go, I think if a fetus is going to be used for stem cells, it must have both individuals (mother-father) permission in contract signature, since it contains both peoples genes. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Feb 17, 2007, 02:36 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
shawmutt Slightly Dangerous Location: Greencastle, PA Posts: 992	my post from a prior abortion thread: Life begins at conception. From the time the two pair of DNA match up and start splitting life as we know it is created. My wife had a miscarriage last year, the baby stopped growing at five weeks. It was heartbreaking and took us many months to even work up the desire to try again. It affected us profoundly. She is currently seven weeks pregnant--every day I expect the bad news. Our first sonogram is Monday. Sorry, I'm digressing--can you tell where my head is? Anyway--I am personally against abortion. If a friend or family member told me they were thinking of it I would try my best to talk them out of it. That being said, I am completely against making abortion illegal. Legal abortion should always be an option, even if that option is exploited by a minority. The picture, painted by pro-lifers, of the typical woman getting an abortion is very very skewed. Furthermore, if a woman does not want a baby, the woman will not have the baby, either by legal abortion, coat hanger in a back alley, or dumping it in the trash can. My momma always said (when I was really bad) that she gave me life and she can take it away from me. Of course, she was only joking...I think... <rant>Personally, I have a serious problem with the local anti-abortionists. Many are right-wing nut jobs who want to protect unborn babies but don't give a damn about them after they are born. They don't want government programs like welfare and expect people without boots to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps". They complain about the poor people and "retards" ruining the downtown area. They support war and capital punishment. They stand outside with their gruesome pictures (which were really great to see the first months after my wife's miscarriage, let me tell you) and harass any female going into the clinic. Why aren't they out harassing the men who got the woman pregnant? Why aren't they spending the time doing something useful for society, like adopting children or volunteering to help children? Why are the parents of the kids my wife teaches picketing outside an abortion clinic instead of at home helping their kids learn to read past a first grade level (my wife teaches third)???</rant> 78% of statistics are made up on the spot. Shawmutt.com. My Blog and Pictures of the Massively Multiplayer Offline game, Real Life.

Feb 17, 2007, 04:52 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Matt W Moderator Location: Reading, UK. Posts: 6,193	There is an abortion thread. A huge one. Go here: Does life begin at conception? I think it does. Please, look around before creating new topics. I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. -George Best, on being asked what he did with his footballing fortunes.

Feb 16, 2007, 10:33 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Blaster Sarge I pwn God. Location: Solar System, Milky Way. Posts: 4	I completely agree with what you say. You can not say you are killing an innocent life if it is, in essence, a parasitic sort of being. It does not even have any sort of brain developed at the early stages. People tend to argue that we may be killing "the next Albert Einstien (sp?)," but not doing something with stem cells for the people who are already sick and dying could effectively be doing he same thing. Also, think of the children. If the woman can not abort, and must carry through, and the baby is born, the child would more than likely be sent to a foster home or be shunned, which could just lead to more food shortegas and more crime.

Feb 17, 2007, 01:17 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
nilan3000 Devil's Advocate Location: A True Nomad Posts: 280	As far as my opinion on this issue goes, I dont think its even relevant for us to go into the technical details as to whether the baby is a person or not. If the parents dont want it then they should have the right to abortion because in most cases the baby is better off beng killed in the womb than being forced to live a terrible life once it is born. I know many people who have had neglected childhoods and bad pasts, they all wish their suffering was ended in the womb rather than being forced to live a life that brings nothing but suffering. Hardcore religious fanatics and narrow minded 'pro life' geeks might disagree, but the harsh truth is that it is better to end someones suffering in the womb before it gets worse in the real world.

Feb 17, 2007, 01:59 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
boyo1991 lawyer in training Location: only if you have candy in that car! Posts: 12	"the parents dont want it then they should have the right to abortion because in most cases the baby is better off beng killed in the womb than being forced to live a terrible life once it is born." first what if you gave it up for adoption and at least give it a fighting chance?and second, if they are going to abortion, they should only be able to if they used a condom, and the condom broke, then there is nothing that they can do about it, but if they didnt, then its just a strait forward... but thats just my thoughts...

Feb 17, 2007, 09:49 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Amolibri Molten Ash Location: NY Posts: 30	Excellent "rant" shawmutt! I agree. We have a weekly "picket fest" of mostly elderly white people at our local Planned Parenthood...I once stopped to talk about adoption, and they wouldn't even let me speak. I tell you, it's scary!

Feb 17, 2007, 10:36 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
GraceAustin Sedimentary Rock Posts: 21	[quote=Blaster Sarge;342443]Mass disputes are going on in congress as to if this act is acceptable and ethical. So I figured why not see what the common people think. What do the people here think of abortion? >>>>>> 1. One question was "should government put their foot down?" The first thing to recognize is that abortion has been deemed Constitutional. The only group that can 'put its foot down' is the Federal Supreme Court, or by process of a constitutional amendment. An amendment requires 2/3 of Congressional approval, and ratification by 3/4 of the States. 2. Secondly, on the subject of aborted fetus' being used for stem cell cell research; Science does NOT rely on abortions to gather stem cells. The most promising cells are those which have formed within the first DAYS of conception, before they merge to begin the process of creating a human. These cells are undifferentiated, meaning they have yet to take the form of any human tissue. These cells reside in labs, in a frozen state, and are leftovers from couples attempting artificial insemination. If not used for research, they are eventually destroyed. They are NOT 'babies.' George Bush has denied science the use of these cells, other than the few lines science was using prior to his presidency. 3. Next question was "is it acceptable to take a human life?" To answer that question, you first must define when one becomes 'human.' Some think it's at the moment of conception, even before cells become human tissue. Some think it's when the nervous system is formed....& so on. But for the purposes of 'abortion', my opinion will be based on feelings rather than intellect. I say "no", it isn't acceptable, and therefore would never have an abortion. HOWEVER, do I have the right to tell other women what to do with their bodies, and do I have the right to tell other women how their bodies will be used? My answer is "no, I do not." Therefore, abortion is a matter of choice.