Praxius and Captain Chaos, on peak experiences and metaphysics

[Technosoul]

Quote by: yourwrong oh but I bet he had heard the saying ying and yang two opposites commoning together balancing out. Most likely he already new what he experienced he had just long forget. The LSD all it did was trigger a large amount of known knowledge all at once which brought up a long lost thought maybe of his childhood he did say he was highly imaginative when he was little.

The LSD method for debating the topic.

Erowid Tim Leary Vault : Leary and Doubters

[Technosoul]

Quote by: arielmessenger For the closest approximation to LSD visual hallucinations seen in movies, see the French western with Juliette Lewis and Vincent Cassels in it called "Blueberry".. there are a couple of scenes where Vincent undergoes a peyote vision quest and while the imagery starts off with grotesque centipedes and stuff it finally goes into pure forms of really rich complexity, the kind of complexity I see in psychedelic visions..the only thing that didn't ring true for me at least was the color tones used...these metallic bronzes while what I see is brilliantly colored.. Blueberry..

I just watched a movie made in the 1970s which is kind of a trip that no doubt is influenced by the LSD / Pot culture. It is called Holy Mountain.
Did a full review in the DVD post at entertainment forum.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: arielmessenger It has, only it's now so embedded in mainstream American culture nobody but old hippies know it's there. History may not record this but it's true--the countercultural revolution that happened in the '60's was defeated from within by a split that happened that was memorialized at Chicago when police wacked Alan Ginsberg with his flower outstretched and the Chicago Seven were locked up. The Vietnam War and the Left ruined the '60's radical social change movement by reattaching the counterculture movement back to the same old world at war with people taking sides as combatants one way or another--where its remained ever since--young people who take on the hippie garb do not have the old hippie attitudes-they are political protestors who will in a few years join the ranks of the mainstream one way or another--seen it happen too many times to know what we have today is not the same--the utopian idealism is gone. Now that I know where the Abrahamic religions really started in India, I highly suspect some ancient Vedic gurus were lofted into peaks of highest consciousness at an early time in human civilization with the aid of the two powerful psychedelic plants right in the area--cannabis indica and opium poppies.

There is a hard-to-get book by Terrence McKenna called Food of the Gods (not to be confused with the H G Wells classic) where he traces the history of how psychedelic plants and mushrooms were used by early religions and so forth. He extended the study originated by Whitehead on that topic. Some of that information can be found on-line
Amazon.co.uk: Food of the Gods: A Radical History of Plants, Drugs and Human Evolution: Books: Terence McKenna

[Praxius]

Quote by: yourwrong oh but I bet he had heard the saying ying and yang two opposites commoning together balancing out. Most likely he already new what he experienced he had just long forget. The LSD all it did was trigger a large amount of known knowledge all at once which brought up a long lost thought maybe of his childhood he did say he was highly imaginative when he was little.

If you read what was already passed in this debate.... you would know I already explained that I had no interest in afterlife or the meaning of whatever.... ying and yang I heard of in Karate Kid... that was the extent of my knowlege prior to this experience which made me want to find answers.

You can speculate all you want as to any explination you can think of, but you honestly have no idea what went through my mind. I'm not here to convince you, I don't honestly care what you believe...... believe what you want... someone asked a question, and I explained what made sense to me......

Following what I explained that made sense, people started to ask how I came to this..... and although most of it actually made sense, once you hear a term towards a drug involved, you gotta think it's something typical like me learning Chinese or Japaniese history in my Roman Catholic Irish background.... cuz you know that was common.

[Technosoul]

I never used LSD or any of the real drugs, long time ago I smoked a little pot (when it was still a popular trend in society). I was already doing meditations and was experiencing a lot of insights and visions. So I could relate to what the hippies were experiencing.

I was mentioning to someone at work that meditation is better because the visionary stuff is regulated so that you have time to digest it and not be overwhelmed by a major in-put all at once. He said that some people seek visions of heaven and they might see it after years of meditation but LSD is a short cut. Why spend lots of time meditating when you can be there within an hours time.

I did not have a logical counter debate for that.

But oddly on the way home I flicked on the car radio to this talk station and some preacher dude was reading something out of the Bible that said "in the last days they will crash the gates of heaven". I flipped off the radio and said to my self "wow". Are people useing LSD to crash the gates of heaven (a paranormal dimension)?

I really do not have a clue, and I was not trying to meditate my way into heaven anyway, just interested in useing it as a way to understand things better. But it was odd that those events happened that way.

Once you set your mind to enter the pathway of spiritualism there is no turning back. you will start to notice odd things happening in your life, and they will continue. Like in the Disney movie where Mickey Mouse did some did some magic trick to make those buckets of water come in so he could mop the floor, but he did not know out to stop the buckets of water and so he flooded the place. His Wizard mentor was not pleased.

My mind experienced the great flood of ideas but luckly for me I built this ark of logic so that I could save my butt. (along with two of each of my animal spirit guides.. hee hee).

[Praxius]

I was mentioning to someone at work that meditation is better because the visionary stuff is regulated so that you have time to digest it and not be overwhelmed by a major in-put all at once. He said that some people seek visions of heaven and they might see it after years of meditation but LSD is a short cut. Why spend lots of time meditating when you can be there within an hours time.

Sounds about right.... in a nut shell....

You know when people talk about seeing trails like when you move your hand and you see several follow behind (Think of Mouse Trails in Windows)

Anywho, one of the things that got me connected to one thing and another, was when I moved my hand.... there was of course my hand, but it wasn't the start of the trail, there were two trailed hands just slightly ahead of my hand, and the rest followed behind...... The funny thing was, I could see my hand make the action I was about to do in those two trails, before I actually physically made the motion.....

One could interperate that as being phased with Time itself.... you can see the past present and future in one time frame.... which could relate to the dialated pupils and the amount of information you recieve.

Now before I start sounding anymore whacked than I already do..... The medication they put in your eyes to dialate isn't the same effect as on LSD, since the droplets (From my understanding) open them up and your eye is then more sensitive towards light, which could, in the wrong situations, cause blindness. (By all means correct me if I am wrong, I'm too lazy to look it up right now)

But with LSD, your eyes are not seeing a lot of really intense bright light, to the point you can look..... the lighting is pretty much the same as normal.... minus all the moving crap.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Praxius Sounds about right.... in a nut shell.... You know when people talk about seeing trails like when you move your hand and you see several follow behind (Think of Mouse Trails in Windows) Anywho, one of the things that got me connected to one thing and another, was when I moved my hand.... there was of course my hand, but it wasn't the start of the trail, there were two trailed hands just slightly ahead of my hand, and the rest followed behind...... The funny thing was, I could see my hand make the action I was about to do in those two trails, before I actually physically made the motion..... One could interperate that as being phased with Time itself.... you can see the past present and future in one time frame.... which could relate to the dialated pupils and the amount of information you recieve. Now before I start sounding anymore whacked than I already do..... The medication they put in your eyes to dialate isn't the same effect as on LSD, since the droplets (From my understanding) open them up and your eye is then more sensitive towards light, which could, in the wrong situations, cause blindness. (By all means correct me if I am wrong, I'm too lazy to look it up right now) But with LSD, your eyes are not seeing a lot of really intense bright light, to the point you can look..... the lighting is pretty much the same as normal.... minus all the moving crap.

Ever walk into a room of people and as you are looking around it is like you already saw this all before, but do not know when it was you saw the room and the motions before?

It feels odd, and you think "hey, I did this already".

Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young did a whole song about this. It was a smash hit (people could relate to it).

I know what you are talking about. I do not know the science but somehow the brain can process visual in-put faster then our consciousness can digest it, so that puts a few moments ahead of what we are acturally seeing in the moment. But who cares, it is fun to enjoy those rare moments when they happen and trying to make it all sound logical or scientific is a drag.

I once had my little "lost weekend" for the summer. No LSD but not far from it. I was driving into Hollywood on the freeway, smoking pot, and "that girl" handed me a Black Beauty to injest. A mild stemulant.
Suddenly the world slowed down to a snails pace. All the cars on the freeway were hardly moving it seemed, I was switching lanes and going around all the slow pokes (my reflexes also sharp and speeded up).
I looked at my gauges, over 100 miles per hour, and it felt normal.

That was the night the world (relatively) stood still.

Perceptions. The paranormals of perception are indeed rather interesting as a topic, but without being experienced by altered perceptions it would be difficult to know what just what the topic is about or what the study is directed at.

[Technosoul]

Now this is a public forum and so I always add in some tips or standard rules for people to follow when using drugs.

1. Use substances that have a long history of human use (only).
2. Research it first, know what all the potential side effects are so you are prepared to know what will happen.
3. Avoid drugs that are physically addictive.
4. Only use drugs in a safe environment where you are not paranoid about getting busted. And where you cannot endanger your self (the freeway is not a good environment by the way).
5. Best to have a well informed mentor with you but not people who will panic while you are into the experience.
6. Be a scientist when preparing doses, know what you are doing so you measure the correct doses as recommended by experts.
7. Have the right motive for using drugs.
8. If you are depressed or have emotional or mental problems - do not use drugs. They are for those in good health and sound mind.
9. Do not use street drugs, Make sure the source is very trustworthy, best to start from the beginning, plant it, grow it, and process it all by your self so that you are in charge of the whole process.
10, Pioneering the Artic Circle is not without dangers, pioneering the mind is also for the brave hearted and it can be dangerous also. If you want to explore the mind then do so at that risk.

Those are the 10 Commandments of the Shaman.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Technosoul Ever walk into a room of people and as you are looking around it is like you already saw this all before, but do not know when it was you saw the room and the motions before? It feels odd, and you think "hey, I did this already". Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young did a whole song about this. It was a smash hit (people could relate to it).

Ah yes, Jeva-Vu.... yeah I've had those experiences.... similar kind of time shift feeling, but totally different approaches.

I know what you are talking about. I do not know the science but somehow the brain can process visual in-put faster then our consciousness can digest it, so that puts a few moments ahead of what we are acturally seeing in the moment. But who cares, it is fun to enjoy those rare moments when they happen and trying to make it all sound logical or scientific is a drag.

Well actually I think I remember back in the forums I used to attend, that TV screens in the Americas are around 24 frames per second, while in Europe they're 30... making their TVs appear a bit sharper and clearer viewing then ours.

Now when you play a video game on a computer monitor, it's displayed at around 60+ frames per second (More smother detail and quicker response for refresh of time)

Now I think someone said that the Human eye can capture up to 200fps..... I'm not sure.... some say between 80 and 200 or so frames per second..... apparently it's something hard to confirm.

I once had my little "lost weekend" for the summer. No LSD but not far from it. I was driving into Hollywood on the freeway, smoking pot, and "that girl" handed me a Black Beauty to injest. A mild stemulant. Suddenly the world slowed down to a snails pace. All the cars on the freeway were hardly moving it seemed, I was switching lanes and going around all the slow pokes (my reflexes also sharp and speeded up). I looked at my gauges, over 100 miles per hour, and it felt normal. That was the night the world (relatively) stood still. Perceptions. The paranormals of perception are indeed rather interesting as a topic, but without being experienced by altered perceptions it would be difficult to know what just what the topic is about or what the study is directed at.

Indeed... Most of the medical proceedures we have today would not have been invented if the doctors didn't perform their own proceedures on themselves, risking their lives, to prove it works. (Found a whole documentary on that justa few hours ago)

But I've heard of that effect before.... certainly not one I have experienced, by description, but I can picture what you are talking about.... As you said, Marijuana seems to be such an impressive adaptive thing..... I watched Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, prior to me even trying most, if any of the drugs they used, but I smoked weed, and I got eveything they were feeling, saying, doing.... man I was laughing my ass off.

THIS IS BAT COUNTRY!

Anyways, yeah the way you describe the slowing down, is similar to what I experienced...... it's more like..... time can be bent and adjusted.... like the Matrix (But perhaps not that extreme of course) or Peter Parker's Locker room fight.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Technosoul Now this is a public forum and so I always add in some tips or standard rules for people to follow when using drugs. 1. Use substances that have a long history of human use (only). 2. Research it first, know what all the potential side effects are so you are prepared to know what will happen. 3. Avoid drugs that are physically addictive. 4. Only use drugs in a safe environment where you are not paranoid about getting busted. And where you cannot endanger your self (the freeway is not a good environment by the way). 5. Best to have a well informed mentor with you but not people who will panic while you are into the experience. 6. Be a scientist when preparing doses, know what you are doing so you measure the correct doses as recommended by experts. 7. Have the right motive for using drugs. 8. If you are depressed or have emotional or mental problems - do not use drugs. They are for those in good health and sound mind. 9. Do not use street drugs, Make sure the source is very trustworthy, best to start from the beginning, plant it, grow it, and process it all by your self so that you are in charge of the whole process. 10, Pioneering the Artic Circle is not without dangers, pioneering the mind is also for the brave hearted and it can be dangerous also. If you want to explore the mind then do so at that risk. Those are the 10 Commandments of the Shaman.

Yeah, I haven't heard it laid out that way before, but that pretty well covers it all.... it's pretty much how I approach it.....

Just because something has the label "DRUGZ!!!!!UBER!!11!!" doesn't mean those who take them are complete morons.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Technosoul I was mentioning to someone at work that meditation is better because the visionary stuff is regulated so that you have time to digest it and not be overwhelmed by a major in-put all at once. He said that some people seek visions of heaven and they might see it after years of meditation but LSD is a short cut. Why spend lots of time meditating when you can be there within an hours time. I did not have a logical counter debate for that.

Let me try my logic! "Meditation" is gradual training technic, not only your physical mind but inturn for your metaphysical mind step by step to grasp the infinite knowledge. You are the trainer and your two types of minds are the instruments which need be trained to gather the infinite knowledge. Your minds need be educated step by step, exactly the same way as you start from class 1 and pass on to class 2 and then to
class 3...so on and so forth. Drugs, LSD and other psycho dilatics do affect untapped portions of brains. Reveal at times sensible visions which falls into catagory of knowledge which a person is familiar with e.g. Praxius was aware about atom, planets and other related things. It may at times reveal visions, which does fall in the perview of pre-gathered knowldge in the physical or metaphysical mind, making such vision absurd or unexplanable. You are very right in suggesting 10 points to be taken note of; while trying any drug.

It is pointed out, drug taking results in opening up of much more knowledge than the normal capcity of one's mind to handle. But in normal fuctioning mind attends one thought or vision at a time. Multi-knowledge or multi thoughts entry might damage the normal functioning of physical mind. Luckily, Praxius has returned back to normal within a minute or two. Imagine what would have happened if he would not have returned back to normal state of thoughts or vision !!!

Now therefore, since drugs have a lot of certain risk, why not to go for step by step meditation method of teaching and stimulating the mind gradually to the infinite knowledge of reality.

See, whether you look at the eternally existing REALITY using risky short cut Drug method or using safe Meditation method; the ultimate aim is be peaceful and have a satified mind ! Therefore, I too adopt myself to meditation only.

But oddly on the way home I flicked on the car radio to this talk station and some preacher dude was reading something out of the Bible that said "in the last days they will crash the gates of heaven". I flipped off the radio and said to my self "wow". Are people useing LSD to crash the gates of heaven (a paranormal dimension)? I really do not have a clue, and I was not trying to meditate my way into heaven anyway, just interested in useing it as a way to understand things better. But it was odd that those events happened that way.

Yes, whatever is written in the Bible could be out of the personal experience of the first writer / dictator either through meditation or drug use, but reading only would evert reveal the REALITY. Each and every Individual has to experience "IT" himself to the capcity of his own capability, training and understanding. Exactly the way sweetness of sugar cannot be expalined in words or in any language to a person whose has never tasted sugar as long as he himself does not taste the sugar.

Once you set your mind to enter the pathway of spiritualism there is no turning back. you will start to notice odd things happening in your life, and they will continue. Like in the Disney movie where Mickey Mouse did some did some magic trick to make those buckets of water come in so he could mop the floor, but he did not know out to stop the buckets of water and so he flooded the place. His Wizard mentor was not pleased.

I beg to differ ! Setting of mind to enter the pathway of spiritualism is not that simple. There can be infinite turning backs !!!!

But then, yes if one has a dogged perseverance, determined & trained mind of rationality to support; no turning back is possible. Revealation would start step by step in controlled manner !!!

My mind experienced the great flood of ideas but luckly for me I built this ark of logic so that I could save my butt. (along with two of each of my animal spirit guides.. hee hee).

You are fortunate to be balanced and your posts tell your story otherwise even. At least, I can feel your those experiences of great flood of ideas !!

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Kuldeep Let me try my logic! "Meditation" is gradual training technic, not only your physical mind but inturn for your metaphysical mind step by step to grasp the infinite knowledge. You are the trainer and your two types of minds are the instruments which need be trained to gather the infinite knowledge. Your minds need be educated step by step, exactly the same way as you start from class 1 and pass on to class 2 and then to class 3...so on and so forth. Drugs, LSD and other psycho dilatics do affect untapped portions of brains. Reveal at times sensible visions which falls into catagory of knowledge which a person is familiar with e.g. Praxius was aware about atom, planets and other related things. It may at times reveal visions, which does fall in the perview of pre-gathered knowldge in the physical or metaphysical mind, making such vision absurd or unexplanable. You are very right in suggesting 10 points to be taken note of; while trying any drug. It is pointed out, drug taking results in opening up of much more knowledge than the normal capcity of one's mind to handle. But in normal fuctioning mind attends one thought or vision at a time. Multi-knowledge or multi thoughts entry might damage the normal functioning of physical mind. Luckily, Praxius has returned back to normal within a minute or two. Imagine what would have happened if he would not have returned back to normal state of thoughts or vision !!! Now therefore, since drugs have a lot of certain risk, why not to go for step by step meditation method of teaching and stimulating the mind gradually to the infinite knowledge of reality. See, whether you look at the eternally existing REALITY using risky short cut Drug method or using safe Meditation method; the ultimate aim is be peaceful and have a satified mind ! Therefore, I too adopt myself to meditation only. Yes, whatever is written in the Bible could be out of the personal experience of the first writer / dictator either through meditation or drug use, but reading only would evert reveal the REALITY. Each and every Individual has to experience "IT" himself to the capcity of his own capability, training and understanding. Exactly the way sweetness of sugar cannot be expalined in words or in any language to a person whose has never tasted sugar as long as he himself does not taste the sugar. I beg to differ ! Setting of mind to enter the pathway of spiritualism is not that simple. There can be infinite turning backs !!!! But then, yes if one has a dogged perseverance, determined & trained mind of rationality to support; no turning back is possible. Revealation would start step by step in controlled manner !!! You are fortunate to be balanced and your posts tell your story otherwise even. At least, I can feel your those experiences of great flood of ideas !!

I would think that society needs both kinds of people - those who do a vision quest in the traditional shaman manner and those who meditate, and also just stick to the milder forms of philosophy or art. With the governmetal drug war sweeping in the great advantages that the 60s drug culture had on society has (now) been vastly underated. However in Eastern cultures meditation has had positive effects also.

I was not trained in how to meditate so not all that knowledgable about what the experts say on that topic. It started by pressing my hot coffee cup on my forehead when I sat alone in the house. Bringing attention to the center of the forehead is one way to focus concentrated energy on the harmone gland. But then I tried another way on purpose this time.

I imagined that I was looking from the center of my mind at a screen located in the center of my forehead. If a thought appeared I would bring my attention back to that spot, seeking as much as possible thought-less "stillness". I could feel a kind of pressure on my forehead like a tiny burning sensation. Then I saw colors moving around on the "mind's screen" I was watching, Colors moving in fluid motions and sometimes moveing from large down to small dots as if they are departing to some far distance. Kind of like some of those screen savers they make for computers nowadays when music is playing. Then I would move my attention to my finger tips until they felt tingling and the hand just seemed to float up into the air without effort to lift it. As the light moved through the body I could give speical attention to each part with keen awareness, the warmth of healings happening as that connection between consciousness and the physical were coming together as one. Consciousness moveing with the colors.
"hey bud, how you doin" if the parts were silent then cool, but if a little pain was noticed, then the energy had to be treaked by the consciousness in the light. The colors in fluid motion are the energies that I had not name for, a spirit. Once I did that for a long time, well into the night while in bed, suddenly the colors became as one bright white light - I could sense the light filling the room but dared not to open my eyes because it was so blinding. The light then spun around and around and became the image of a being of light, I felt the illusion of weightlessness, then suddenly I was outside of me inside the light being looking down on my self in the bed, but in an instant was back inside my mind again. The being was once more a light and the light sent a ray that seemed to penatrate my forehead to enter my mind, then the vision was gone, I felt at peace "it is allright, everything was, is, and shall be, allright".
I was tired then a fell right off to sleep.

That was my only real vision and it was never repeated. I had no clue about the meaning and did not feel any urge to try to give it meaning, logically it was an illusion caused by the processes I had used while meditating but if I not resorted to logical reasoning I would discribe it as an experience that seemed more realistic then anything I had ever experienced in my normally half-dazed activites at work and so forth.
An illusion that is more real then reality - now that was something for my books.

[Technosoul]

After the Light Being Experience the journey seemed to become effortless as long as I yearned to continue in the light which is the awareness, as the watcher. However I knew that that my mind had selected that "being" image based on my personal background relative to stories I had been impressed by, the mind will form a symbol that fits the individual so they can "relate" to what is happening.

At least I did not see a self-duplicating machine elf - like some people I know.

The machine elf is like a little other-dimension thing that can reproduce it's self by doing a little hop dance. And they like to tease humans "come on, you can do it, it's easy". Those can be found sometimes via the right drugs. Or perhaps if you eat too much aged cheese before dreaming at night time.

The mind is hollywood in action. Before we had movies, before we had natives performing their dance storytelling, we had only the mind, as a place in which to find some entertainment. Our imagination is the original Hollywood from out of which all other kinds of entertianment was given birth to being. It is what being human is all about, seperating us from from the animals zoo - we have escaped. The great spirit of imagination has sent us on a journey of discovery, progress, inventions, and the dreams we follow give us purpose, as we do in relality as we vision it in the dimensions we visit through the portals of that imagination, as we open the windows of the mind, and jump.

Hmm? I should of been a preacher, the poet for the Other, as a cracked nut opening up in the soil towards the light being in the sky, to bear fruit that will seed a forest for generations of green peace.

But I am just me, the watcher and sometimes the out of print reporter.

Having fun.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Technosoul I would think that society needs both kinds of people - those who do a vision quest in the traditional shaman manner and those who meditate, and also just stick to the milder forms of philosophy or art.

To my mind, such type of knowledge is not the need of society but the need and urge of individuals.

I was not trained in how to meditate so not all that knowledgable about what the experts say on that topic. It started by pressing my hot coffee cup on my forehead when I sat alone in the house. Bringing attention to the center of the forehead is one way to focus concentrated energy on the harmone gland. But then I tried another way on purpose this time.

If you have cent percent wish to know the reality. You would get it ! There is absolutely no need of training, drug or technique of meditation. Tell me ! How can a person know reality when he is aware of proper drug to be used, proper knowledge of meditation ??? I think the ": FIRM WILL AND WISH" to know the reality is the drug, the training, the technique and what not !!!

There is every possibility that the "Reality Vision" might vary from person to person, type of drug used, type of meditation technique adopted ...and the like possible other variables.

You must be wondering what I am telling you !! Just listen, there is better absolute reality that "YOU EXIST". You are YOU, you are sure about it. But others are exactly like you, there can be chances of doubt, may it be negligible. So it is very much logical to know your own self !!!

What a silly conclusion I have drawn. KNOW YOUR SELF !!!!????? You are just YOU and I am just ME. No Sir, that is not true. We are represented by our body organs, both external and internal and then mind and memory it contains. Many times, I have written this and to repeat: Every body says His body, His mind, His soul etc....What is wrong to grasp, he is different than all those conceivable and even non-conceivable items ????

Now, the question is how to know your own self ? I have found simple method of elimination. I am not any of the things mentioned above, but still I do exist within the contour of my body. Definitely, I must not try to find out myself outside of my body.

Why to wait, just go inside mentally into your body and start the search. This is the base; I have formed for myself and now am telling to others, by way of this thread. Let every body have a try!!! Telling more specifically, you have to pin point a POINT, where exactly you exist inside your body. If can pin point, you have found yourself and thus, the absolute reality….How Simple !!!!

I imagined that I was looking from the center of my mind at a screen located in the center of my forehead. If a thought appeared I would bring my attention back to that spot, seeking as much as possible thought-less "stillness". I could feel a kind of pressure on my forehead like a tiny burning sensation. Then I saw colors moving around on the "mind's screen" I was watching, Colors moving in fluid motions and sometimes moveing from large down to small dots as if they are departing to some far distance. Kind of like some of those screen savers they make for computers nowadays when music is playing. Then I would move my attention to my finger tips until they felt tingling and the hand just seemed to float up into the air without effort to lift it. As the light moved through the body I could give speical attention to each part with keen awareness, the warmth of healings happening as that connection between consciousness and the physical were coming together as one. Consciousness moveing with the colors. "hey bud, how you doin" if the parts were silent then cool, but if a little pain was noticed, then the energy had to be treaked by the consciousness in the light. The colors in fluid motion are the energies that I had not name for, a spirit. Once I did that for a long time, well into the night while in bed, suddenly the colors became as one bright white light - I could sense the light filling the room but dared not to open my eyes because it was so blinding. The light then spun around and around and became the image of a being of light, I felt the illusion of weightlessness, then suddenly I was outside of me inside the light being looking down on my self in the bed, but in an instant was back inside my mind again. The being was once more a light and the light sent a ray that seemed to penatrate my forehead to enter my mind, then the vision was gone,

Thanks for narration of your vision. I can only say that this is your true and wishful attempt to know thyself only, which is my definition of meditation!!!!

I felt at peace "it is allright, everything was, is, and shall be, allright".

Naturally you would, your wish has been fulfilled.

I was tired then a fell right off to sleep.

Tired, because you might have struggled within your mind to deeply concentrate. Sleeping is the right thing you did. After hard struggle one should take rest.

That was my only real vision and it was never repeated. I had no clue about the meaning and did not feel any urge to try to give it meaning, logically it was an illusion caused by the processes I had used while meditating but if I not resorted to logical reasoning I would discribe it as an experience that seemed more realistic then anything I had ever experienced in my normally half-dazed activites at work and so forth. An illusion that is more real then reality - now that was something for my books.

I would call it a very near dream stage about your own self !!

In the dream, I have also seen myself away from the body and flying as if, I was without any weight. I was in my B.Sc course and slept in my study room under a quilt in first floor. I saw, in dream, myself flying over my School and other neighboring area and then came down to my home's main entrance gate (ground). I found it locked from inside. Not worrying for what to do, I simply rose about twenty-five feet and from a open window in second floor. Then, I came down through staircase and entered my room and then went into quilt and opened by eyes.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Kuldeep To my mind, such type of knowledge is not the need of society but the need and urge of individuals. If you have cent percent wish to know the reality. You would get it ! There is absolutely no need of training, drug or technique of meditation. Tell me ! How can a person know reality when he is aware of proper drug to be used, proper knowledge of meditation ??? I think the ": FIRM WILL AND WISH" to know the reality is the drug, the training, the technique and what not !!! There is every possibility that the "Reality Vision" might vary from person to person, type of drug used, type of meditation technique adopted ...and the like possible other variables. You must be wondering what I am telling you !! Just listen, there is better absolute reality that "YOU EXIST". You are YOU, you are sure about it. But others are exactly like you, there can be chances of doubt, may it be negligible. So it is very much logical to know your own self !!! What a silly conclusion I have drawn. KNOW YOUR SELF !!!!????? You are just YOU and I am just ME. No Sir, that is not true. We are represented by our body organs, both external and internal and then mind and memory it contains. Many times, I have written this and to repeat: Every body says His body, His mind, His soul etc....What is wrong to grasp, he is different than all those conceivable and even non-conceivable items ???? Now, the question is how to know your own self ? I have found simple method of elimination. I am not any of the things mentioned above, but still I do exist within the contour of my body. Definitely, I must not try to find out myself outside of my body. Why to wait, just go inside mentally into your body and start the search. This is the base; I have formed for myself and now am telling to others, by way of this thread. Let every body have a try!!! Telling more specifically, you have to pin point a POINT, where exactly you exist inside your body. If can pin point, you have found yourself and thus, the absolute reality….How Simple !!!! Thanks for narration of your vision. I can only say that this is your true and wishful attempt to know thyself only, which is my definition of meditation!!!! Naturally you would, your wish has been fulfilled. Tired, because you might have struggled within your mind to deeply concentrate. Sleeping is the right thing you did. After hard struggle one should take rest. I would call it a very near dream stage about your own self !! In the dream, I have also seen myself away from the body and flying as if, I was without any weight. I was in my B.Sc course and slept in my study room under a quilt in first floor. I saw, in dream, myself flying over my School and other neighboring area and then came down to my home's main entrance gate (ground). I found it locked from inside. Not worrying for what to do, I simply rose about twenty-five feet and from a open window in second floor. Then, I came down through staircase and entered my room and then went into quilt and opened by eyes.

Society does not always get what it wants, but sometimes gets what it needs.

If we set a objective to see our self as we really are, we will find our self-image, which we can improve upon. If we have any objective to reach or fullfill, chances are we could find such attainment.

And yet, my wish and objective was to enter the process without tanting the outcome with my own pre-established agenda of becoming me, without setting any goals, such as finding purpose, salvation, or knowledge of reality. In other words the objective was to surrender personal objectives that I wanted to attain.

I limited self to being the watcher, the eye that cannot see the eye.
And then what happens would happen, even if I were to witness all that is not me, the masks of my ego which cloth the unknown self. That would be enough, if a mask needed changing, I could change it, but the images in the mirrors are realistically just reflections, not the invisable unknown behind what I embodied as the physical self.

Seeing self as the unknown, vanishing in the mirrors I see nothing of self, only the universe and the things in which by faith I think I exist within, the motions of change as the fluids of time pass through the unmoved nowness in endless journeys from sleep to sleep, from consciusness to unconsciousness, as colors manifest in the magic of lights and mirrors by the wand of the Illusionist, which is the Mind.
And the Illustionist, which is the Mind, proclaims "the hand is faster then the eye" for a life time exists only within the time it takes to breathe in and to exhale, each new breath is a new life span, and when exhaled it is again the universe. Focus on the breathing, for truth is right in front of the tip of our nose, inhale it, exhale it, but you cannot keep it or hold it forever, for it must be fresh and new, but also as the reincarnations of what always was, and always will be, the vision and the Seer, the seer and the Vison, for the lamb is the shepard and the shepard is the lamb, and the sacrifice of one is the other, and sacrafice of the Other is the one.

[nerdvincent]

I'm not a professional of any kind, but what Praxius Experiemented seems to be a plain LSD trip: revelation, new state of mind kinda more opened, but with an alert feeling, not like being drowsy on pot or alcohol. That's exactly what hippi dudes wanted to experiment in the 60's.
This said I don't do any drug, but I'm doing meditation. What do I feel like? What's the effect on my life? Well nothing esoteric of any kind. I'm less stressed, more concentrated, kinda more ''here'', feeling that i'm living. It's hard to explain for non-meditating people. Nonetheless I don't consider it as a major spiritual reveletion...yet. I'm doing 30 min each day since 3 months, I'm far from the Xiaolin buddies.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: nerdvincent I'm not a professional of any kind, but what Praxius Experiemented seems to be a plain LSD trip: revelation, new state of mind kinda more opened, but with an alert feeling, not like being drowsy on pot or alcohol. That's exactly what hippi dudes wanted to experiment in the 60's.

I have gone through what Praxius explained throughly. You are only partly right in calling IT as a plain LSD trip. This trip is associated with a dream like state of mind of Praxius, with widened range of imagination.

This said I don't do any drug, but I'm doing meditation. What do I feel like? What's the effect on my life? Well nothing esoteric of any kind. I'm less stressed, more concentrated, kinda more ''here'', feeling that i'm living. It's hard to explain for non-meditating people. Nonetheless I don't consider it as a major spiritual reveletion...yet. I'm doing 30 min each day since 3 months, I'm far from the Xiaolin buddies.

In simple terms, I would translate your feeling as "You are coming closer to YOU !!!" With most intense meditation one could find the real self, which in absence of individual egostic consciousness terns into universal consciousness. You would find the whole universe as your own self, losing your individualistic existence merging into infinity.

[Praxius]

Indeed. I find meditation is great for inner peace and understanding, but what I went through was the opposite, as I brought myself to the inner peace of the overall.

This was beyond myself... as I said, I was merely on for the ride of explination..... like continuing living my life, in normal time, only being able to look way down the highway in both directions to see what was to come and what has already past..... and all that was required was to turn the wheel in any decision to take another path.

But more simpiler then that...... yet more complex then that..... english/verbal communication is so limiting.