Praxius and Captain Chaos, on peak experiences and metaphysics

[Captain Chaos]

The idea is too induce sleep paralysis as the starting point.

I wrote up how to do it on this site, but I cannot find the post. I am trying to avoid rewriting it.

Will looks some more. If I cannot find it, I will write it up again.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Praxius Yeah I'm always up for a journey, so long as I end up coming back from it, lol.

Praxius, I hope you are back from the journey!!! If so welcome and see what I am writing after going through your experience. My writing would contain few questions/doubts and also few comments:

I presume LSD is some sort of drug, which affects brain/mind! Please clarify!

If all that you experienced after consumption of some drug, the whole thing might be similar to hallucination. Mark the word SIMILAR. I never mean your experience is unrealistic but is very near to absolute reality. It is not only hallucination but also definitely something beyond.

I am not sure whether or not; you have gone through my explanation of universe, universal consciousness and individual consciousness. Your experience is clearly telling me my line of thinking is not much wrong!!!

The main ignorance in watching your experience is that you are feeling YOU (perfectionist, watching person) and SCENE (full scenery you watched) are two separate. The absolute reality is that both are ONE. Come on tell me, while watching the whole scene" Had you any feeling of personal existence"??? If you are not aware, you will have to repeat your experiment to find the answer. Then are you sure you would have similar view, 100% repetition??? How many times you got a repeated scene??? I mean, the one you narrated in detail!!!
I can continue only after knowing answers to my important questions !!!

[Praxius]

Quote by: Kuldeep I presume LSD is some sort of drug, which affects brain/mind! Please clarify!

LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide) - AKA: Acid.

Lysergic acid diethylamide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If all that you experienced after consumption of some drug, the whole thing might be similar to hallucination. Mark the word SIMILAR. I never mean your experience is unrealistic but is very near to absolute reality. It is not only hallucination but also definitely something beyond.

The thing I always wondered was, what exactly is a hallucination?

Hallucination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scientific explanations Various theories have been put forward to explain the occurrence of hallucinations. When psychodynamic (Freudian) theories were popular in psychiatry, hallucinations were seen as a projection of unconscious wishes, thoughts and wants. As biological theories have become orthodox, hallucinations are more often thought of (by psychiatrists at least) as being caused by functional deficits in the brain. With reference to mental illness, the function (or dysfunction) of the neurotransmitter dopamine is thought to be particularly important. Psychological research has argued that hallucinations may result from biases in what are known as metacognitive abilities. These are abilities that allow us to monitor or draw inferences from our own internal psychological states (such as intentions, memories, beliefs and thoughts). The ability to discriminate between self-generated and external sources of information is considered to be an important metacognitive skill and one which may break down to cause hallucinatory experiences. Projection of an internal state or a person's own reaction to another may arise in the form of hallucinations, especially auditory hallucinations. A few scientists have argued that such hallucinations may be the result of other conscious thoughts.

In other words, scientist don't have the first clue as to what they are. What's the purpose of hallucinations? What amount of truth comes from them?

I am not sure whether or not; you have gone through my explanation of universe, universal consciousness and individual consciousness. Your experience is clearly telling me my line of thinking is not much wrong!!!

I'll have to refreash my memory.... link? or was it in the previous thread that started this all? If so, then yes it's along the lines of what I think..... which is why I directed you to these threads.

The main ignorance in watching your experience is that you are feeling YOU (perfectionist, watching person) and SCENE (full scenery you watched) are two separate. The absolute reality is that both are ONE. Come on tell me, while watching the whole scene" Had you any feeling of personal existence"???

It was an experience that didn't directly point to me and say "Hey you... check this out" ~ It was more of a "looking through the window at all the people working" kinda of experience, while I was focused on one timeline.....

Um... in a sense, yes and no would be your answer, lol.... I knew of my position on the timeline.... I saw the overall outline as to what was coming, what was past and what is present.... I was positioned in the present, so that would show that I was existing to a degree with the experience.

In the other part of that experience (There were two experiences now that I look back, that were happening at the same time.)

The timeline I was viewing, the experiences I was seeing, etc.... they all came from me trying to think of what life was all about so to speak..... I looked at my forearm.... looked at the skin, then focused down to the skin cell.... then the atoms.... then I was past the atoms.....

I think now the timeline was directly involving me, since it started and then ended with me..... hince how I claim everything is connected. As soon as I passed the atoms, that's when I saw the timeline, space, existance, planets, life.... all passing as it does in it's own way.... and it all eventually brought me back to where I was sitting looking at my arm.

If you are not aware, you will have to repeat your experiment to find the answer. Then are you sure you would have similar view, 100% repetition??? How many times you got a repeated scene??? I mean, the one you narrated in detail!!!

I have had this experience occur about 4 or 5 different times, and it all didn't occur with just LSD..... sometimes sober... onc while smoking weed... a couple of times on shrooms, etc....

Although, I must add that these experiences were not as detailed as my original, because I didn't overdo it with the other drugs, like I did with the LSD..... it's a little intense at times......

But each one of these experiences all had big chunks from the original that I experienced to help me confirm it wasn't just a one time thing..... and I didn't purposely go out to re-experience it..... they just came to me when the time was opportune.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Praxius LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide) - AKA: Acid. Lysergic acid diethylamide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The thing I always wondered was, what exactly is a hallucination? Hallucination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In other words, scientist don't have the first clue as to what they are. What's the purpose of hallucinations? What amount of truth comes from them?

Scientist are not to blame for this!!! They have limitations to access physical manifestation only. Psychology (Hallucination including) are basically metaphysical. Physically not true to a normal person but somebody (mentally ill or spiritually higher up) watches beyond physical world either wishfully or by chance!

I'll have to refreash my memory.... link? or was it in the previous thread that started this all? If so, then yes it's along the lines of what I think..... which is why I directed you to these threads.

I have been writing my conception of God and universe/universes as its properties of SOMETHING BEYOND CONCEPTION (say God or Dog) on threads like what is God, Possibilitiy of God exist or not exist ...so on so forth.

It was an experience that didn't directly point to me and say "Hey you... check this out" ~ It was more of a "looking through the window at all the people working" kinda of experience, while I was focused on one timeline..... Um... in a sense, yes and no would be your answer, lol.... I knew of my position on the timeline.... I saw the overall outline as to what was coming, what was past and what is present.... I was positioned in the present, so that would show that I was existing to a degree with the experience. In the other part of that experience (There were two experiences now that I look back, that were happening at the same time.) The timeline I was viewing, the experiences I was seeing, etc.... they all came from me trying to think of what life was all about so to speak..... I looked at my forearm.... looked at the skin, then focused down to the skin cell.... then the atoms.... then I was past the atoms..... I think now the timeline was directly involving me, since it started and then ended with me..... hince how I claim everything is connected. As soon as I passed the atoms, that's when I saw the timeline, space, existance, planets, life.... all passing as it does in it's own way.... and it all eventually brought me back to where I was sitting looking at my arm.

I do know how to respond to your this experience! I am getting more questions in my mind than answers which would clear your doubts. Fresh questions:...

What made you use LSD or any other thing ? Were you aware that any abonormal thing would happen by doing that? Was there any guidance to you from somebody that you should watch your arm's skin and not table surface for example? From these questions, I want to guess the your mind's set up, before consuming say LSD !!!

Anyway, from what you explaned about your personal existence during the experience, I could feel that you were not near the reality but, it was some sort of drug effect, some sort of giddiness and then you went into, so to say a dream. Just like in dream, You and what you see in the dream are two different identities(duality exists), similar duality existed in your experience. See, knowledge of Atom has been in your mind before consuming LSD, you had also built your some view about universe/universes and its similarities with atom. With that additionally, LSD induced a short dream; YOU as the Master of the show clubed your idea of atom and universe together and framed a solid dream (whole experience) feeling whole thing a reality.

Any event in wakefukl state or even in dream starts with you and ends with you only. Without you no event is possible either in living life, dream or after death. Sameway, you have been a part and parcel of the whole experience. Even in that experience, you, like anybody for that matter, must have seen only "present" which keep on going into past as memories while; incoming scene was coming to you as calculated by your own mind. So in nut shell I would term this experience of yours nothing but a drug induced dream !!!!

I have had this experience occur about 4 or 5 different times, and it all didn't occur with just LSD..... sometimes sober... onc while smoking weed... a couple of times on shrooms, etc.... Although, I must add that these experiences were not as detailed as my original, because I didn't overdo it with the other drugs, like I did with the LSD..... it's a little intense at times...... But each one of these experiences all had big chunks from the original that I experienced to help me confirm it wasn't just a one time thing..... and I didn't purposely go out to re-experience it..... they just came to me when the time was opportune.

O.K.

"they just came to me when the time was opportune."

Should I understand by this that now IT (Identical Scene) comes to you even without LSD?? If it is so, I should think that you have taken this scene as final truth about life and developed a firm faith in what you have narrated !!!!

But, "Absolute Truth" is what I have written in previous post !!!! DUALITY IS ILLUSION, ONLY ONE THING (SOMETHING) is true, REST EVERYYTHING ELSE WHICH LOOKS AS DUAL IS THE PROPERTY OF THAT REAL SOMETHING !!!!!

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Praxius LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide) - AKA: Acid. Lysergic acid diethylamide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The thing I always wondered was, what exactly is a hallucination? Hallucination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In other words, scientist don't have the first clue as to what they are. What's the purpose of hallucinations? What amount of truth comes from them?

Scientist are not to blame for this!!! They have limitations to access physical manifestation only. Psychology (Hallucination including) are basically metaphysical. Physically not true to a normal person but somebody (mentally ill or spiritually higher up) watches beyond physical world either wishfully or by chance!

I'll have to refreash my memory.... link? or was it in the previous thread that started this all? If so, then yes it's along the lines of what I think..... which is why I directed you to these threads.

I have been writing my conception of God and universe/universes as its properties of SOMETHING BEYOND CONCEPTION (say God or Dog) on threads like what is God, Possibilitiy of God exist or not exist ...so on so forth.

It was an experience that didn't directly point to me and say "Hey you... check this out" ~ It was more of a "looking through the window at all the people working" kinda of experience, while I was focused on one timeline..... Um... in a sense, yes and no would be your answer, lol.... I knew of my position on the timeline.... I saw the overall outline as to what was coming, what was past and what is present.... I was positioned in the present, so that would show that I was existing to a degree with the experience. In the other part of that experience (There were two experiences now that I look back, that were happening at the same time.) The timeline I was viewing, the experiences I was seeing, etc.... they all came from me trying to think of what life was all about so to speak..... I looked at my forearm.... looked at the skin, then focused down to the skin cell.... then the atoms.... then I was past the atoms..... I think now the timeline was directly involving me, since it started and then ended with me..... hince how I claim everything is connected. As soon as I passed the atoms, that's when I saw the timeline, space, existance, planets, life.... all passing as it does in it's own way.... and it all eventually brought me back to where I was sitting looking at my arm.

I do know how to respond to your this experience! I am getting more questions in my mind than answers which would clear your doubts. Fresh questions:...

What made you use LSD or any other thing ? Were you aware that any abonormal thing would happen by doing that? Was there any guidance to you from somebody that you should watch your arm's skin and not table surface for example? From these questions, I want to guess the your mind's set up, before consuming say LSD !!!

Anyway, from what you explaned about your personal existence during the experience, I could feel that you were not near the reality but, it was some sort of drug effect, some sort of giddiness and then you went into, so to say a dream. Just like in dream, You and what you see in the dream are two different identities(duality exists), similar duality existed in your experience. See, knowledge of Atom has been in your mind before consuming LSD, you had also built your some view about universe/universes and its similarities with atom. With that additionally, LSD induced a short dream; YOU as the Master of the show clubed your idea of atom and universe together and framed a solid dream (whole experience) feeling whole thing a reality.

Any event in wakefukl state or even in dream starts with you and ends with you only. Without you no event is possible either in living life, dream or after death. Sameway, you have been a part and parcel of the whole experience. Even in that experience, you, like anybody for that matter, must have seen only "present" which keep on going into past as memories while; incoming scene was coming to you as calculated by your own mind. So in nut shell I would term this experience of yours nothing but a drug induced dream !!!!

I have had this experience occur about 4 or 5 different times, and it all didn't occur with just LSD..... sometimes sober... onc while smoking weed... a couple of times on shrooms, etc.... Although, I must add that these experiences were not as detailed as my original, because I didn't overdo it with the other drugs, like I did with the LSD..... it's a little intense at times...... But each one of these experiences all had big chunks from the original that I experienced to help me confirm it wasn't just a one time thing..... and I didn't purposely go out to re-experience it..... they just came to me when the time was opportune.

O.K.

"they just came to me when the time was opportune."

Should I understand by this that now IT (Identical Scene) comes to you even without LSD?? If it is so, I should think that you have taken this scene as final truth about life and developed a firm faith in what you have narrated !!!!

But, "Absolute Truth" is what I have written in previous post !!!! DUALITY IS ILLUSION, ONLY ONE THING (SOMETHING) is true, REST EVERYYTHING ELSE WHICH LOOKS AS DUAL IS THE PROPERTY OF THAT REAL SOMETHING !!!!!

[Praxius]

Quote by: Kuldeep Scientist are not to blame for this!!! They have limitations to access physical manifestation only. Psychology (Hallucination including) are basically metaphysical. Physically not true to a normal person but somebody (mentally ill or spiritually higher up) watches beyond physical world either wishfully or by chance!

Well I wasn't really trying to bash scientists. I was just expressing that Dreams and the sort are still an unknown overall.

Many spirit walkers, shamen and many others who follow similar teachings have always used other sources in nature and abroad to help give them enlightenment..... could it just be some drug trip? Perhaps, however these drug trips have helped them seek knowlege of the world around them, how to live in harmony with nature and live in not just simplistic, but peaceful way of life overall..... they must have been doing something right. These followers of the Spirits, you may notice, tend to live for a long period of time. You usually see old and frail, but wise and strong hearted.

I do know how to respond to your this experience! I am getting more questions in my mind than answers which would clear your doubts. Fresh questions:.

Not a problem, because I already know this would raise more questions. This isn't a simple answer. Well it is a simple answer, just not in words.

What made you use LSD or any other thing ?

A dare.

I was in the bar drinking with some old friends and they done it before and somehow when drunk I said I would do it, millions of people in the 60's done it before, they did it, they're still walking and talking, so what's the harm in doing it once?

I've tried LSD a couple of times prior to this experience, and no, I don't do it often. maybe at the most once or twice a year, that's if I'm in the mood.

Were you aware that any abonormal thing would happen by doing that?

The first time I tried it, I knew I'd probably see some crazy crap. I honestly didn't know what to expect..... that's the point of LSD I suppose, lol. I wasn't expecting to go on some profound journy to enlightenment the first few times. It was more for just having a good time and having a laugh. I never was expecting to use it for what it became to be.

Was there any guidance to you from somebody that you should watch your arm's skin and not table surface for example?

Nope. At that time it was just my girlfriend of the time and myself. I went to goto the bathroom and while waiting for a dump, I just decided to look down at my arm. While on LSD or Shrooms you will notice that pretty much everything around you moves. Not like walking around or jumping at you moving.... just that everything has texture. everything has life. Everything is made up of atoms. and then my train of thought went from there and decided to ponder what exactly was an atom. and then that's when I got to see the other side of the Atom.... the inside. which we are in.... It was like suddenly being sucked into a black hole or vacume and then just going at that speed all the way until I came back, so to speak. In all, the experience probably lasted maybe 30 seconds... to maybe a minute.... it was fast, and it was a lot of info.

From these questions, I want to guess the your mind's set up, before consuming say LSD !!!

Well I'm not trying to promote it or anything. You do with your own life what you feel you should do.

Anyway, from what you explaned about your personal existence during the experience, I could feel that you were not near the reality but, it was some sort of drug effect, some sort of giddiness and then you went into, so to say a dream. Just like in dream, You and what you see in the dream are two different identities(duality exists), similar duality existed in your experience.

You're jumping ahead of something you have not experienced to know. I understand completely when I am dreaming, hallucinating, etc. In order to do LSD and to not go mad, one must always be vigillant that whatever you experience, whatever you see, feel, hear, taste, etc. It's all a part of the LSD's effect.

The only difference this time, is that this was not just tripping out for shits and giggles, when this all happened, everything lined up and everything made perfect sense. Why we are at war, why there is suffering, why there is joy. why we exist. It wasn't something I was studying or anything. It just came into my head, and at that point in my life, it made more sense and more logical reasoning than any current scientific explination, any religius theory, everything......

Hell, I could even understand where religions came from and how they related to what I was experiencing..... I could see how they could have interpreted some of the things I saw......

The only problem is that it was also an overload of information..... since it's been almost over a year now since the experience and the last time I attempted it.... I only remember bits and peices (The human mind is crap for storing memeory.) All I know is the feeling of peace with existance and where I was at that moment in time...... as if I was finally doing what I should, and being in the exact place I should...... not like fate..... just balance.

See, knowledge of Atom has been in your mind before consuming LSD, you had also built your some view about universe/universes and its similarities with atom. With that additionally, LSD induced a short dream; YOU as the Master of the show clubed your idea of atom and universe together and framed a solid dream (whole experience) feeling whole thing a reality.

Umm.... that's a good explination.... but once again.... I've tripped before, and I know when something is just there for fun, something is just there to freak me out.... whatever..... and then I know when something is being shown to me, like as in a spiritual journey, so to speak..... I never thought too much into atoms.... I know the basics....

Any event in wakefukl state or even in dream starts with you and ends with you only. Without you no event is possible either in living life, dream or after death. Sameway, you have been a part and parcel of the whole experience. Even in that experience, you, like anybody for that matter, must have seen only "present" which keep on going into past as memories while; incoming scene was coming to you as calculated by your own mind. So in nut shell I would term this experience of yours nothing but a drug induced dream !!!!

Opinion taken.... I know otherwise. This isn't just something that only I experienced.... two of the past experiences were also experienced by other parties who were there..... I tried to explain it to them after leaving the bathroom, only to accidentally pull some friggin telepathic thing.... where eventually they were finishing my sentances, and I would finish their sentances..... then I thought of something funny.... not moving my lips.... and then they'd start to laugh.... I asked them what was funny..... then they'd tell me word for word exactly how it was in my head..... when I got connected into this experience, as I realized everything in existance is connected..... I connected.... literally..... it was a two way medium.... and since once we all kind of figured out what exactly was going on, I brought what was in my head to them visually, and their eyes bulged, they covered their mouths and tried not to scream.....

After they calmed down and I dropped my excitment.... we were so at peace, I never been so at peace in my life.....

And as I said above.... This didn't just happen with LSD, but also with just being sober, and smoking some pot once.....

Should I understand by this that now IT (Identical Scene) comes to you even without LSD?? If it is so, I should think that you have taken this scene as final truth about life and developed a firm faith in what you have narrated !!!!

I have no faith in anything.... I take what comes my way, I judge it and I hold to it if it seems logical until something else comes along that explains it better. Examples of this can be found in these forums when I eventually in a debate, modify my opinions from time to time due to new information.

It's not something that constantly comes back when I want it to.... I never try to experience it on purpose most times.... it's a plain of comprehension so to speak...... you see things a certain way..... What you see is never the same, but the method in which you see it is.

But, "Absolute Truth" is what I have written in previous post !!!! DUALITY IS ILLUSION, ONLY ONE THING (SOMETHING) is true, REST EVERYYTHING ELSE WHICH LOOKS AS DUAL IS THE PROPERTY OF THAT REAL SOMETHING !!!!!

Exactly... which is why I always say to combine all the religions, all the scientific explinations, all the cultural beliefs, philosophy, and "Free" human imagination..... and you come very close to the answer.... that's kind of what happened in this experience I had and there after......

All the religions and everybody is right.... but they are also wrong at the same time..... and this is why there is fighting, division, schisms, wars, seperate countries, etc..... we are a planet devided between beliefs and ways.... Each religion and scientific belief is based on some forms of truth and so-called fact.... but everything that everybody else argues against, are the things they built up around those truths, that are not truths..... and this is where things become foggy and people are devided....

Only until we merge all ideas, combine all common factors in each to be deemed true, and reach a final conclusion of what we all considder the most logical, balanced method of understanding, do we come closer to stopping all the BS that's going on in the world.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Praxius Well I wasn't really trying to bash scientists. I was just expressing that Dreams and the sort are still an unknown overall.

Such things would remain always unknown due to metaphysical aspect involved while; science is having only physical tools.

Many spirit walkers, shamen and many others who follow similar teachings have always used other sources in nature and abroad to help give them enlightenment..... could it just be some drug trip? Perhaps, however these drug trips have helped them seek knowlege of the world around them, how to live in harmony with nature and live in not just simplistic, but peaceful way of life overall..... they must have been doing something right.

The real enlightened person does not require secondary substances (drug trip as you put it) to enjoy the reality, which always exist before us, but we are ignorant due to physical body bindings. Drug bits affect nerves and brain/mind variably, mainly disconnecting physical body temporarily, sometimes keeping mental self-conscious in tact. But, beginners have found these drug trips funny, amusing and helpful, if you want to take it that way. But I want to enjoy without any secondary help like LSD.

These followers of the Spirits, you may notice, tend to live for a long period of time. You usually see old and frail, but wise and strong hearted.

Yes, it is so because they are confident that they are not the physical body but something beyond! While; common man has full doubt about that reality.

Nope. At that time it was just my girlfriend of the time and myself. I went to goto the bathroom and while waiting for a dump, I just decided to look down at my arm. While on LSD or Shrooms you will notice that pretty much everything around you moves. Not like walking around or jumping at you moving.... just that everything has texture. everything has life. Everything is made up of atoms. and then my train of thought went from there and decided to ponder what exactly was an atom. and then that's when I got to see the other side of the Atom.... the inside. which we are in.... It was like suddenly being sucked into a black hole or vacume and then just going at that speed all the way until I came back, so to speak. In all, the experience probably lasted maybe 30 seconds... to maybe a minute.... it was fast, and it was a lot of info.

Anything moving does never always mean that it has life. See, a moving car is not having life. How could you say whatever moved around you, was alive!
It is different story that in fact everything even non-living to us is also having life but of different type!

Well I'm not trying to promote it or anything. You do with your own life what you feel you should do.

Very True!

You're jumping ahead of something you have not experienced to know. I understand completely when I am dreaming, hallucinating, etc. In order to do LSD and to not go mad, one must always be vigilant that whatever you experience, whatever you see, feel, hear, taste, etc. It's all a part of the LSD's effect. The only difference this time, is that this was not just tripping out for shits and giggles, when this all happened, everything lined up and everything made perfect sense. Why we are at war, why there is suffering, why there is joy. why we exist. It wasn't something I was studying or anything. It just came into my head, and at that point in my life, it made more sense and more logical reasoning than any current scientific explination, any religius theory, everything...... Hell, I could even understand where religions came from and how they related to what I was experiencing..... I could see how they could have interpreted some of the things I saw...... The only problem is that it was also an overload of information..... since it's been almost over a year now since the experience and the last time I attempted it.... I only remember bits and peices (The human mind is crap for storing memeory.) All I know is the feeling of peace with existance and where I was at that moment in time...... as if I was finally doing what I should, and being in the exact place I should...... not like fate..... just balance. Umm.... that's a good explination.... but once again.... I've tripped before, and I know when something is just there for fun, something is just there to freak me out.... whatever..... and then I know when something is being shown to me, like as in a spiritual journey, so to speak..... I never thought too much into atoms.... I know the basics....

All right, agreed you had experience little different than a dream. In fact, even our waking stage is also a dream in that reality, which you experienced in detail!

Opinion taken.... I know otherwise. This isn't just something that only I experienced.... two of the past experiences were also experienced by other parties who were there..... I tried to explain it to them after leaving the bathroom, only to accidentally pull some friggin telepathic thing.... where eventually they were finishing my sentances, and I would finish their sentances..... then I thought of something funny.... not moving my lips.... and then they'd start to laugh.... I asked them what was funny..... then they'd tell me word for word exactly how it was in my head..... when I got connected into this experience, as I realized everything in existance is connected..... I connected.... literally..... it was a two way medium.... and since once we all kind of figured out what exactly was going on, I brought what was in my head to them visually, and their eyes bulged, they covered their mouths and tried not to scream..... After they calmed down and I dropped my excitment.... we were so at peace, I never been so at peace in my life.....

I am aware of such telepathy, but in dream. In that dream I had conversation with my dead father on 18th Day of death, through mind only. I too noticed, we were not moving lips but thoughts conveyed were in our mother tongue!

And as I said above.... This didn't just happen with LSD, but also with just being sober, and smoking some pot once.....

Fine, understood! You have gone in step II where drug is not always a need. Being sober, you probably mean calm and free from worldly thoughts. I would say you must be getting so much engraved in your that peaceful state of the Experience that you must be forgetting even existence of your physical body before entering the stage of THAT EXPERIENCE!!!

I have no faith in anything.... I take what comes my way, I judge it and I hold to it if it seems logical until something else comes along that explains it better. Examples of this can be found in these forums when I eventually in a debate, modify my opinions from time to time due to new information. It's not something that constantly comes back when I want it to.... I never try to experience it on purpose most times.... it's a plain of comprehension so to speak...... you see things a certain way..... What you see is never the same, but the method in which you see it is.

Yes sir, I got you what you wanted me to understand! I would tell you that your next step in reality would be when you find yourself present in whole universe/universes making you omnipresent, omnipotent etc., etc.

Exactly... which is why I always say to combine all the religions, all the scientific explinations, all the cultural beliefs, philosophy, and "Free" human imagination..... and you come very close to the answer.... that's kind of what happened in this experience I had and there after...... All the religions and everybody is right.... but they are also wrong at the same time..... and this is why there is fighting, division, schisms, wars, separate countries, etc..... we are a planet divided between beliefs and ways.... Each religion and scientific belief is based on some forms of truth and so-called fact.... but everything that everybody else argues against, are the things they built up around those truths, that are not truths..... and this is where things become foggy and people are devided.... Only until we merge all ideas, combine all common factors in each to be deemed true, and reach a final conclusion of what we all consider the most logical, balanced method of understanding, do we come closer to stopping all the BS that's going on in the world.

Whatever you said is very true. The only thing, I would add that even illogical part (war etc.) is also property of big reality, which you experienced. Love, compassion, hatred, selfishness, greed, jealousy…so and so forth, all are the properties of human mind. This way, forming an individualistic ego or individual person. If one can out of personal ego, he merges with my SOMETHING!!!

[Praxius]

Quote by: Kuldeep The real enlightened person does not require secondary substances (drug trip as you put it) to enjoy the reality, which always exist before us, but we are ignorant due to physical body bindings.

Never said it was "Required" which is why you didn't see me here recomending to try it. As I said, this experience has occured since while sober.... it just put my mind into the right perspective so to speak. Everything I experienced in that first Experience, are all still around me in life.... which is why I guess you could say I have a bit of faith in it, because it's all physically around me still...... think of Neo and how he see's the Matrix.... it's sure as hell not the same as that, but I've learned how to focus my eyes to see to the atom of things..... It's learning how to tap into something that always was there, as you put it.

Drug bits affect nerves and brain/mind variably, mainly disconnecting physical body temporarily, sometimes keeping mental self-conscious in tact. But, beginners have found these drug trips funny, amusing and helpful, if you want to take it that way. But I want to enjoy without any secondary help like LSD.

Well all the more power to you on that... I wasn't telling you to take it..... you asked, I responded in honesty.

Here's a question...... what doesn't affect nerves and brain function? If we eat, drink, take our vitamins, run, swim..... anything and everything around us in this world affects our minds and bodies in some degree or another.

People drink to get drunk, people smoke to reduce stress, people drink coffee to wake up..... people smoke dope to relax and have a good time..... people do things for many reasons.... you could be hard core into Heroin, but that wouldn't make me change my opinion on what you have to say and bring to the table.

Many many people we all look up to, who teach us, who make the music we listen to, the movies we watch and enjoy..... you could easily guess they were all on something at one time or another.

Anything moving does never always mean that it has life. See, a moving car is not having life. How could you say whatever moved around you, was alive!

It's all based on your perception as to what is life. Something may not be alive, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have "Life."

It is different story that in fact everything even non-living to us is also having life but of different type!

Exactly.... although we considder rocks, mountians, fire, planets, moons, etc. as all not being alive.... they are all made up of the exact same things we are made of..... atoms.... it all depends on the complexity those atoms when they come together....... we're just more complex then a rock.....

People say plants don't have brains or intelligence, etc.... however how does one explain how venus fly traps hunt? How come so many people report plants reacting positivly to certain kinds of music?

All right, agreed you had experience little different than a dream. In fact, even our waking stage is also a dream in that reality, which you experienced in detail!

Indeed..... one has to considder what is the "real" reality. Is this a sub reality prior to death's reality?

Is all of what we are experiencing just a part of one 15 min dream vacation we paid for? We're gonna wake up from it and all this life is gonna be just a memory like Total Recall?

Everything we see, feel, hear, taste, etc... even in dreams or not.... all have to some from the same sensory inputs were have been limited to in our lives.... if we trust what we see everyday from our senses..... why can't a small bit of truth come from and alternative method?

I am aware of such telepathy, but in dream. In that dream I had conversation with my dead father on 18th Day of death, through mind only. I too noticed, we were not moving lips but thoughts conveyed were in our mother tongue!

I think perhaps the connection between dreaming and being under the influence of something like what I was on, is all about imagination and the removal of society's limitations of it.

When I was a child, I seen and heard a lot of odd things.... too many things to explain right now..... I have a high imagination and I was creative... and people said it was all in my head. Over time, I eventually dulled my imagination from going through school, and work.

Most of the time now a days, if you see something out of the ordinary, our imaginations are so fractured from growing up, that we come to the quickest logical conclusion and dismiss everything else..... this limits understanding and you tend to dismiss things that are not commonly accepted. I just recently have been tapping back into my imagination and refreashing it..... I'm begining to find out that some of the things I thought were BS, might actually have something to them.

When people say Anything is Possible if you put your mind to it... I always thought it was a figure of speach...... but pretty much anything is possible..... it just depends on what you want to be possible.

Fine, understood! You have gone in step II where drug is not always a need. Being sober, you probably mean calm and free from worldly thoughts. I would say you must be getting so much engraved in your that peaceful state of the Experience that you must be forgetting even existence of your physical body before entering the stage of THAT EXPERIENCE!!!

I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. I haven't really changed who I am... and everything around me is still the way it always was.... nothing has changed in that..... just my perspective on it all has changed. I never forget where I came from or who I am/was..... if I ever forgot then I would chance repeating mistakes.

These experiences have more so opened my limitations up to accept new concepts and ideas in the world. I now can look back on times in my life where things didn't make sense, and now.... I can understand what happened, what went right and what went wrong..... it's as if a door was opened as they say....

I don't considder what I have experienced or how I live today as anything negative..... far from it.....

Yes sir, I got you what you wanted me to understand! I would tell you that your next step in reality would be when you find yourself present in whole universe/universes making you omnipresent, omnipotent etc., etc.

Huh?

Whatever you said is very true. The only thing, I would add that even illogical part (war etc.) is also property of big reality, which you experienced. Love, compassion, hatred, selfishness, greed, jealousy…so and so forth, all are the properties of human mind. This way, forming an individualistic ego or individual person. If one can out of personal ego, he merges with my SOMETHING!!!

They are all a part of us. The issue here I think is making things confusing, is you are trying to seperate the "Reality" I experienced with what you call "Big Reality" or the "Real Reality" ~ When I am trying to explain they are all the same thing at the same time.....

Actually last night after getting out of the shower, I was thinking back on this topic and my first experience and I pulled a memory out of that night and the experience.

The way I describes this Timeline and the path and all that..... it's true, but a part was missing from the explination.....

It's not that I was literally standing on the timeline, looking back and forth in time, it's not that I was physically or mentally traveling through existance...... Existance came to me so to speak..... I knew where I was, sitting in the bathroom.... and the amount of information that came my way kinda phased myself, current "Reality" as you call it, and everything in and around existance pushed itself all into one location... like I was a vacume.

Existance went inside out... like taking a deflated basketball and pulling it inside out so you see the black crap..... in that process you see all of what makes up that basketball and you see how it works.

Existance was outside of me, as it is right now for you and I..... but then when I looked into my arm, it all went inside and I was on the outside.... looking at the atom from the other side. While this was all here in my mind.... as I said.... it was all crammed and all connected..... I knew where everything and everyone was for a brief moment..... I knew what wars were on their way, why they have been started, when they will end..... who will live and die.... but it was just so much, so many faces, planets, names, creatures, stars, countries, everything.... I just remember it all as a blob.

And to be perfectly honest, if I didn't mention it prior in this thread originally.... I have a really bad headache for two days afterwards.

There is a balance and there is an order to things.... it's random yet fixed, based on how far out you want to relate one thing to the next.

[Kuldeep]

Quote by: Praxius Well all the more power to you on that... I wasn't telling you to take it..... you asked, I responded in honesty.

Anyway thanks for both!

Here's a question...... what doesn't affect nerves and brain function? If we eat, drink, take our vitamins, run, swim..... anything and everything around us in this world affects our minds and bodies in some degree or another.

True, but some intakes, accidents make a person insane at least for some period of time. Persons become socially incompatibles. Honestly speaking, it is very difficult to explain what is sane and what is insane, normal and abnormal. Well we take what society calls normal, to remove confusion.

My desire is to be normal from that point of view, as well as know the reality! That is not possible because as normal I would remain an Individual but on knowing the reality I would turn universal!

People drink to get drunk, people smoke to reduce stress, people drink coffee to wake up..... people smoke dope to relax and have a good time..... people do things for many reasons.... you could be hard core into Heroin, but that wouldn't make me change my opinion on what you have to say and bring to the table. Many many people we all look up to, who teach us, who make the music we listen to, the movies we watch and enjoy..... you could easily guess they were all on something at one time or another.

To my mind all living and nonliving species perform good or bad actions just to have peace of mind and satisfaction. I am sure even your experience must not have come just by chance. You must be having dogged perseverance and firm desire to come across such an experience! It might not surprise you when I said even nonliving species perform actions to have mind’s satisfaction, as you experienced it yourself. To my mind (to you as well as per your experience) they too have life (see my definition of life later)

It's all based on your perception as to what is life. Something may not be alive, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have "Life." Exactly.... although we considder rocks, mountians, fire, planets, moons, etc. as all not being alive.... they are all made up of the exact same things we are made of..... atoms.... it all depends on the complexity those atoms when they come together....... we're just more complex then a rock..... People say plants don't have brains or intelligence, etc.... however how does one explain how venus fly traps hunt? How come so many people report plants reacting positivly to certain kinds of music?

I have removed whole the confusion from my mind by defining Life as “ the feeling of existence that I am Something”. I firmly believe that all living and no living species do have such type of feeling of existence.

Indeed..... one has to considder what is the "real" reality. Is this a sub reality prior to death's reality? Is all of what we are experiencing just a part of one 15 min dream vacation we paid for? We're gonna wake up from it and all this life is gonna be just a memory like Total Recall? Everything we see, feel, hear, taste, etc... even in dreams or not.... all have to some from the same sensory inputs were have been limited to in our lives.... if we trust what we see everyday from our senses..... why can't a small bit of truth come from and alternative method?

Reality is that the whole thing you witnessed in the experience and we, all exist ETERNALLY. As regards this life, it not 15 mts dream but a micro micro second (even less) dream of the whole eternity that we exist.

I have equated our body to one dress we wear daily. That way our bodies in different lives would be like dresses we wear in this life. That way our number of dresses in total life might be approaching our total eternity existence.

As regards dream and reality! You are right to say that it is all perception. The way, all you see in a dream is reality till, you are in dream or, reality so long as you were in experience; same way, this life is reality till you are living but after the death…what? This life’s reality would go into memory of your metaphysical mind as dream. Not only that your memory to start with, would think of your lost body. You, being the master of your will, would like to pick up a body of your choice in anybody’s womb. Your rest of forgotten memory would finalize your luck for next life to pay for your past actions.

I think perhaps the connection between dreaming and being under the influence of something like what I was on, is all about imagination and the removal of society's limitations of it. When I was a child, I seen and heard a lot of odd things.... too many things to explain right now..... I have a high imagination and I was creative... and people said it was all in my head. Over time, I eventually dulled my imagination from going through school, and work. Most of the time now a days, if you see something out of the ordinary, our imaginations are so fractured from growing up, that we come to the quickest logical conclusion and dismiss everything else..... this limits understanding and you tend to dismiss things that are not commonly accepted. I just recently have been tapping back into my imagination and refreashing it..... I'm begining to find out that some of the things I thought were BS, might actually have something to them.

Very right! Everything is your perception and imagination based mostly on, feed back being given to your metaphysical mind over innumerous lives and more so to your physical mind in this life from the instance you started breathing!

When people say Anything is Possible if you put your mind to it... I always thought it was a figure of speach...... but pretty much anything is possible..... it just depends on what you want to be possible.

Need no comments from my side, It is perfectly correct! Many times I said, “You are the master of your own self.” You should be 100% sure what exactly you wish, you would get it. Note: 100 means 100, no not even negligible discount in that wish!

I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. I haven't really changed who I am... and everything around me is still the way it always was.... nothing has changed in that..... just my perspective on it all has changed. I never forget where I came from or who I am/was..... if I ever forgot then I would chance repeating mistakes. These experiences have more so opened my limitations up to accept new concepts and ideas in the world. I now can look back on times in my life where things didn't make sense, and now.... I can understand what happened, what went right and what went wrong..... it's as if a door was opened as they say.... I don't considder what I have experienced or how I live today as anything negative..... far from it.....

Surely you did not understand when I said “you are in step II of understanding”. I meant you have come out of that experience one piece for which I would call you lucky. If you would have remained in that state for more time, you would have lost your social individuality and gone so to say insane (please do not mind my truthful words). You are lucky dear! Congrats for that!
Then by step II I also meant; you have become mentally so much confident now that for witnessing such a scene again you need not go after that LSD. You have developed confidence that what you witness is factual and real!!!

Huh?

Do not bother for that part of my writing! It is highest state of Self. Please do not get confused!!! I have given explanation while describing the biggest Reality later!!

They are all a part of us. The issue here I think is making things confusing, is you are trying to separate the "Reality" I experienced with what you call "Big Reality" or the "Real Reality" ~ When I am trying to explain they are all the same thing at the same time.....

No! Please, there is no confusion. Let me explain my point with reference to your own body only. I did write this explanation once, to make Soccefret understand my conception of God! His comment to that was Big BS! But, in view of your own experience, it would be easier for you to understand.

Explanation:
Imagine your body has grown to the size of whole thing you witnessed (all the universes and the like). Now the way, you are the master of your normal sized body. God (my conception) is the master of your enlarged body. Your body is the property of yourself while; enlarged body (what you saw in your experience) is the property of my conceived God.

Back to Reality! Reality as property of God you experienced, no problem. But the Bigger Reality is that God is not possible to conceive. Same way, your body can be conceived but not you!

Biggest Reality!!!!!! ?????????
Now, you have understood neither YOU nor GOD can be conceived. YOU are the individual consciousness due your ego of feeling, you are. If you somehow, loose that your individualistic ego, you would become God, universal consciousness. Finally, therefore, Biggest Reality is that you and God are not different but are separated by that your individualistic ego!!

[arielmessenger]

Interesting to read a rerun of stuff we were doing and thinking about half a century ago. I guess because psychedelics have been outlawed all this intervening time has produced this lack of advancement in knowledge of these psychoactive chemicals.

I was particularly sensitive to hallucinogenics, unable to handle a "normal" dose of LSD without experiencing huge sensory overload, all synapsis firing at once it seemed.

As an artist and visually oriented person, the painting here if it downloads is my feeble attempt to freeze a psychedelic vision that is in constant motion and changing every second. This painting is like the equivalent of an 1860's Matthew Brady grainy black and white photograph to a 3-D full color giant screen movie. There is only one movie that comes anywhere close to reproducing real hallucinogenic visions which is this French Western movie I can't remember the name of..

[arielmessenger]

as part of the 1975 San Francisco Rainbow Show, a multi-gallery extravaganza.

[arielmessenger]