Top Ten Volconvo Debaters

[brien]

Quote by: lsbskins1 Well, I know I only voted for the football players and cheerleaders. They are all so cute, and everyone knows that they will run the major corporations, take all the important positions in government and lead the scientific community to wonderous advances. Tight butts and winning smiles ARE the markers of ability, after all.

I always abstained from voting. Was an outcast, loner surfer. Everyone else was football, basketball and organized group sports for the sheeple. Never dated a cheerleader. Never liked chreerleaders. I was always given towards individual activities in life. Never a team player. Got me fired from sooooo many jobs. That's why I had to go into business for myself. I'm happy.

[Matt W]

Quote by: Fonceai Should I post pictures of my butt and smile in the self-pics thread?

Please don't! :eek:

[Fonceai]

Are you saying that with your "person" hat on and are expecting me to listen to you as a courtesy?

Or is that with the "mod" hat on and you're going to flex the power behind your authority?

Interesting side note...

I was just going to post a picture of a nice butt. And then type <smile>

[lsbskins1]

Quote by: brien I always abstained from voting. Was an outcast, loner surfer. Everyone else was football, basketball and organized group sports for the sheeple. Never dated a cheerleader. Never liked chreerleaders. I was always given towards individual activities in life. Never a team player. Got me fired from sooooo many jobs. That's why I had to go into business for myself. I'm happy.

I was a real odd-ball. I was friends (on a certain level) with everyone, but not really a full fledged member of any clique. I played basketball one year. Was a discus thrower and shot putter on the track team, was in the marching band, and was a bit of a small time pot head. I was on the debating team and in the Latin club. Try and shove me in a box, damnit!

[Matt W]

I just had this horrible image of you posting a full-length shot from behind, turning round and smiling.... :eek:

And that was with the person hat on. I'm not sure if that sort of image contravenes the rules, but I'll argue my case all the way!

[Osborn F Enready]

Im flattered for mention peoples. Thank you.

My list in no particular order:
Sonart
Brien
Patrick Henry
Milton Bradley
RickSP
Morgan Freeman
Gallo
Kubedawg
Grampa
Isherwood
CoffeeSaint

too many to list, and I feel bad if I leave anyone off, so I am stopping now.
(I also have been absent for many weeks, so my mind is not fully refreshed)

I like a lot of peoples debate style, and some I value for their attention to detail.

I mostly value debaters who know when to agree to disagree, instead of windsocking, playing the "let me repeat" game, or taking no stance at all.

Respect is essential to debate, if it isn't mutual, it isn't debate.

More than anything, I respect intellectual honesty.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: Fonceai So here's the next spin on this topic... what are your own personal debating flaws? If you don't think you belong on your own best list... if you wouldn't vote for yourself, then what are your flaws?

Not enough proof. I think I use correct logic, and I write well, and I'm as dogged as anyone else, but I seldom have reliable sources to back up my points. It's the reason I stick mostly to the philosophy threads, because in the political threads, I know I'm just going to get hammered for not backing up my points with proof. I'm also too susceptible to using sarcasm, and sometimes I'm a tad long-winded.

Plus I lose my temper every once in a while. Just a wee bit. Not that I would do anything like insult Brien at great length in an immigration thread, or call Osborn a psycho in a gun thread, or call Dirty Name a fool, or PM tman and threaten him with physical harm. Nah. Not me.

By the way, Brien, Osborn, I apologize for those threads.

Quote by: lsbskins1 I was a real odd-ball. I was friends (on a certain level) with everyone, but not really a full fledged member of any clique. I played basketball one year. Was a discus thrower and shot putter on the track team, was in the marching band, and was a bit of a small time pot head. I was on the debating team and in the Latin club. Try and shove me in a box, damnit!

I went from full-fledged nerd -- I'm talking straight-A honors student with greasy hair and pimples and really horrifying fashion choices -- to slacker/rocker/heartthrob over the course of the four years (I was the lead singer of a band -- hence the "heartthrob" thing. Plus, I'm really hot.:) ) Never did participate, though, and I went through an angry juvenile delinquent outcast phase in the middle. I really should have played a sport my senior year; then I could have run the social clique gamut.

[Fonceai]

@CoffeeSaint

I find myself struggling with the same thing. The proof is in the books on my shelves, and I open them to the page to make sure I have the right information, but if someone doesn't have the book I don't want to cite it.

I think that in an Internet debate your proof should come from the Internet. I hold a standard for myself that if I can't cite a link to actual proof, I won't say it.

Because I hold others to the same standards to which I hold myself, I am very aggressive towards rational but unsupported arguments.

That's why I never really challenge conclusions. I challenge the rationale.

[Osborn F Enready]

Coffee Saint said: By the way, Brien, Osborn, I apologize for those threads.

I say:
The gesture is appreciated, but really not necessary Coffee. I have a lot of respect for you both as a person and a debater.

[Fonceai]

I'll throw down the gauntlet here as well...

If anyone wants to try a real debate, with actual rules, please follow the link in my signature.

The first post is the ruleset I was introduced to in my first online debate, and it flowed quite well. If anyone has issues with a rule here and there but would generally like to try something more structured, let me know and I'll rise to the challenge.

[brien]

Quote by: CoffeeSaint Not enough proof. I think I use correct logic, and I write well, and I'm as dogged as anyone else, but I seldom have reliable sources to back up my points. It's the reason I stick mostly to the philosophy threads, because in the political threads, I know I'm just going to get hammered for not backing up my points with proof. I'm also too susceptible to using sarcasm, and sometimes I'm a tad long-winded. Plus I lose my temper every once in a while. Just a wee bit. Not that I would do anything like insult Brien at great length in an immigration thread, or call Osborn a psycho in a gun thread, or call Dirty Name a fool, or PM tman and threaten him with physical harm. Nah. Not me. By the way, Brien, Osborn, I apologize for those threads. I went from full-fledged nerd -- I'm talking straight-A honors student with greasy hair and pimples and really horrifying fashion choices -- to slacker/rocker/heartthrob over the course of the four years (I was the lead singer of a band -- hence the "heartthrob" thing. Plus, I'm really hot.:) ) Never did participate, though, and I went through an angry juvenile delinquent outcast phase in the middle. I really should have played a sport my senior year; then I could have run the social clique gamut.

By the way, Brien, Osborn, I apologize for those threads.

CS; I think we all lose our cool once in a while around here. The magic is to be able to recognize it. I have admitted to being wrong several times in threads. I'd rather be preceived as wrong than intractable. I have also been sometimes too quick to judge as well. I put lsbskins on my ignore list for a while until I realized this was wrong. I was letting my exchanges with her get out of control and it was my fault for focusing on cyber personality and not the issues. I needed some time to figure a way to correct it and I have now. We all make mistakes. Sorry lsbee, you just happened to be there, that's all.

I think the most important thing for all members to realize is that we all can be right, wrong, or even stuck somewhere in the middle with our minds not made up either way. An open mind is a terrible thing to waste. We all have our spin, and we all lean toward our own prejudices. At the end of the day, I think the regulars are all basically good intelligent people here.

But as for a list of the 10 "best", I am not sure it serves any useful purpose that fosters the "best" that Volconvo can offer its members and vistors alike.

[Osborn F Enready]

Fonce, I will debate you anytime, anywhere.

The rules have to be mutually agreed to, and laid out however.

That is what entails the "mutual respect" part, which you already ignored while setting up our first one-on-one debate.

[Fonceai]

Fonce, I will debate you anytime, anywhere.

So debate. The thread is up and running.

The rules have to be mutually agreed to, and laid out however.

The rules in that thread are laid out and very clear. Nothing in them is biased or unreasonable.

That is what entails the "mutual respect" part, which you already ignored while setting up our first one-on-one debate.

Your disclaimer in the beginning of the debate said you would ignore me in every thread but the debate thread. You already failed to do so. I fail to see how I have disrespected you in the debate thread.

I suggest you look back to the first quote in this thread and debate me and prove you're capable.

---

That basically goes to anyone. I think there are many people here who resort to personal attacks because of their inability to actually debate, or their inability to say that someone actually made a good point that completely resolves a debate at hand.

I think the strict rules make it more interesting because it stimulates actual thought and a person cannot hide behind their usual ploys.

There are people who do this in contests that have to think on their feet and can't take back statements. Online debates give the luxury of typing everything out first, removing the attacks and unnecessary garbage, and editing a post for its finer points. And you can actually support your argument with proof others can find.

I think this is the highest standard one can hold themself to. Try out the debate rules listed in the link in my signature and see how you fare.

[Autolykos]

Yet somehow, Fonceai, I suspect your reasons for presenting us with this challenge are purely personal...

- Rob

[Fonceai]

Heh heh.

Maybe.

My personal opinion is that I think some people on here give up too easily. I think a structured debate allows them to improve themselves by forcing them to eliminate the negative aspects of their conduct.

I'm not trying to be better than anyone or to teach them, but I do think that it's more of a strain for some than others to actually exercise restraint.

[Kuroko]

Mainly because I consider a good debater as someone able to engage in intelligent discourse on any topic, not just troll the subjects where they can push their own particular ideology.

This is definitely where I fall short, however given that in this debate context (online) it is up to the individual to choose thier side/impressions on any arguement the ideological standpoint becomes some what moot.

That having been said, many of the debate topics I have seen risen due to what I call "real life" issues there already exists a person argueing my very same point or even impression, I suppose one thing we all need to do is try every now and again taking the road/path opposite to the one we would normally take, I think I may try this more often, except of course when the topic is on some thing I am ideologically pressed about.

[Osborn F Enready]

I replied to you Fonce because you laid out a gauntlet, right after I thought we had "mutually agreed" to ignore each other.

[Fonceai]

"You're so vain... I bet you thought that post was about you..."

It wasn't intended for you.

[tinybear]

YouTube - Carly Simon - You're So Vain

[dilligras]

Heh, heh........this thread reminded me of one of my favorite Dave Barry quotes:

"I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me."


Carry on.