Americans views on their Police Departments??

[copabeat]

I am a Police Sergeant in one of Americas largest and poorest cities ( Actually the disparity between extreme wealth and poverty is pretty bad) I usually work a plain clothes unit of four to five of the finest hand picked Officers we can find. Our main goal is to try to identify crime and stop it before in happens and I think we do a pretty good job, if I do have to say so myself. I am home due to a work related injury I received while trying to apprehend a man that took the Gold chain from around a nine year old girls neck. The Girl was following the man pleading with him to give it back as it was a gift from her dead Grandmother. He was already a three time convicted fellon that had only been last released from prison less than a month before. I was actually on my way home after work in my personal vehicle.

I know there are great differences as there are even in the town I live in less than three miles from the city in which I work. I am sorry to admit some Departments seem to be stuck in a time warp and are back in the 1950's way of policing. I also realize almost every Town/City/ Municipality seems to do things a little different with different priorities. Some in small town USA have little more to do than Motor vehicle stops and the issuing of summons. I am not critizing that or calling it wrong either, God knows how many people are killed on the roadways every day. ( imagine what it would be like if no one was minding the store)

Lately it seems , alright since "Rodney King" ( I am on the opposite coast) it seems we can't seem to do anything right anymore and no matter how hard we try, no matter what good we do, people just seem to resent us. I do mostly work in a predominately African Amercan/Hispanic hood but it seems to go way beyond ethic backgrounds of all kinds regardless. Three of my "regular" Officers are black, two sometime three are hispanic, I happen to be white AKA Caucasian ( I hate that term, I am neither white nor caucasian as much as the other Officers are either "Black" or Hispanic") There is always at least one female usually African American too. I am not going to play stupid and put my head the sand either I know many of these people have been screwed every which way for a long time. I am also not saying or thinking they owe me anything more than the respect or courtesy that I give to all I meet. I also realize it is my job to change that opinion by my ways and actions as much as I can. These are not the only people that have a distrust if not outright hatred for Police Officers. I am also not saying it is everyone as believe it or not most people I meet everyday including those arrested are usually pretty nice people. Most under different circumstance and opportuities wouldn't commit crimes in the first place, I try not to judge anyone. We have a saying in the Unit, "By the Grace of God go I" or when we are being goofy "hey, he did a bad thing that don't make em a bad person, maybe you should introduce em to your sister"

I have also spent some time as an internal affairs Detective (investigates claims from Citizens of improper Police conduct.) I am proud to tell you, yes I have seen a few bad apples, but very few at that. (Nothing is worst than a dirty cop, they rank up there with child molesters to me, as they do to most Officers who are good. "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch")

I am not looking to start a debate on specific incidents, but I would like your overall opinion on what you might think we can do to improve our image and better serve the people we are sworn to serve and protect.

Just a public servant,

THANKS

[JohnMK]

I'm not sure there's a lot you can do. Doing nothing is probably your best bet.

By and large the police try to comport themselves honorably IMO. When they goof up, it gets magnified and publicized, as it should. There might be consistently bad departments here or there but I think they are a small minority. This is how I perceive things anyway.

Your sincerity and candor returned. :)

[underbear1]

My mistrust of police runs pretty deep, and to be blunt some rotten cop's behavior tainted my opinion of most other police. I personally know of two instances where police beat gay men in Minneapolis, just because they could. One was an ex-seminarian student and about the most passive good hearted men I ever met. He was beaten so badly he wouldn't show himself for a week at a support group we both attended, and he was still badly bruised a week later.
Another instance was a cop who threw someone up on the hood of a squad car because he asked his badge number as another gay man was being arrested. I know a few lesbian cops participate in Pride but none of the male gay cops have the same courage, and I know two gay men who are cops in Mpls and one in St Paul.

[RickSp]

Sounds like you work in Newark. I'm not far away in Jersey City. The last Police Chief was a complete idiot, or sure seemed that way. His replacement doesn't seem that much better. Like so much of Hudson County the upper eschalon of all of city government is far too tied up in machine poltics.

That being said I have ben impressed by the quality of local police overall, from patrol officers to the sergents and lieutenants. They are responsive, work hard and tend to be smart. They aren't perfect, but I don't have any real complaints.

[Clarence]

There's two different kinds of police officers. I hope the good ones keep their passion for protecting the flock in the near future. There's all kinds of criminals. Some of them sign your paychecks. Police officers could help defend against a potential police/security state better than anyone.

[copabeat]

Underbear1:
First thanks for your reply,I was hoping not to get into specific debates about alleged incidents that people have had with other Police Departments, although, I guess it was inevitable.

In Over fifteen years of being a Police Officer/Detective/Sergeant/ Firearms instructor etc. I have been lucky to work some of the best details and assingments. (harder the climb bigger the more risk the more I liked it) I have learned this, that there are two sides to every story and the thruth usually lies somewhere in the middle. You stated the Police Officers beat your friend "just because they could", apparently because he was a "Gay man" How exactly do you identify a "Gay Man" or woman for that matter? Is there a certain trait that I am not aware of ? I am not trying to defend the alleged incident because I wasn't there. Did anyone report the incident to the Officers command? We ( P/O's) have another saying I am quite fond of "In God we trust, all others get ran through NCIC or monitored" (NCIC=National crime index computer something or other, it's been a long time since my Academy day graduation,) I think you get the point. The other incident about the Gay Man being thrown on the hood of the squad car, just for asking the Officers Badge number. Again I can't speak for others or about the incident, because I wasn't there or havr any witness accounts. Did the Man, approached the Officer in an aggressive manner ? Was the situation tense and the situation already escalated.? Believe it or not we get scared too maybe, just maybe, the Officer felt threatened. I used to think that old line about your hair being able to stand up on the back of your neck was untrue until my first shit hitting the fan incident. I learned real quick it was true, mine has stood up to many times. I even had an Officer 6' 3" 285 Lbs. that shit himself once. ( he never lived that one down.) I don't know of any Officer in the city that wouldn't give you their shield number when asked, actually the thing is so dam big anyway you could easily see it from five to eight feet away depending on your vision. Whenever someone asks me for mine, I hand them a business card which has all my information, and usually I will supply them with the "CC#" (Central complaint# / incident # / central index # different Officers call it different things depending when they came on the job.) I again have to ask did anyone report the incident to the Officers command? If not why not? that is your right. Please don't even try to tell me that nothing would have been done because, that is almost impossible. By both State and Federal law incidents of Police misconduct must be fully investigated and a conclusive report based on the facts must be filed and I do mean must. ( this is not the 70's ) Each Police Commissioner/Chief/Precinct commander must sign off on it.(IAD Report) I don't think any of those higher ranking Officers are going to put their ass in a sling with the possibility of going to jail themselves and losing their monday through friday six figure incomes for anyone, not in todays day and age. There are cameras every where and some people that are just looking to get into it with us. People have better photographic equipment than we do with camera phones alone that can just about do everything except give live birth. ( maybe the next models will be able to do that at the rate technology is going) I am not saying there is someone watching us from a paranoid perspective, but it is the reality of todays world and we are very aware of that. The last incident I was in was recorded by a pharmacy camera that was scanning the parking lot across the street, but it (camera) got almost the entire incident. I also don't have a problem with the cameras and such, as they have vindicated many Officers and helped too. Lets face it they keep everyone maybe just a little more honest. The "Rodney King" incident, was both a blessing and a curse for modern day law enforcement no matter which side of the fence you are on of that issue. So my point is ( thought I would never get there didn't you?) If you feel an Officer mistreated or mishandled you report it, that is your God given right and I encourage you to use it.

[Jack]

I was a patrol officer for only two years in a small southwestern city (the city motto was "The most southwest city in the continental U.S.", actually) from 1972-4. It seemed to me at the time to be a period of transition for policing. The Miranda warning was only 6 years old and still slightly controversial. Street policing was standard policy. You knew the people on your beat and if verbally threatening a teenager with jail would straighten him out better than actually being arrested, that's was we did. We lived in the community and our neighbors knew who we were and what we did.

I noticed a change in the departments around here in the 80s when older officers, who I think had a social consciousness, retired and were replaced by young, less mature people. The younger officers seemed to lack a healthy respect for the citizens they served, and the law makers seemed intent on changing the role of police into a more paramilitary one. The nature of criminal activity began to change as well. Police were forced into situations where they were pitted against major drug operations and heavily armed gangsters. These days I have little respect left for any cop under 40. I suspect the younger ones of having become cops for impure motives.

Policing in general would have been preserved as a peace-keeping force if they had been spared enforcing moral laws. Even when I was on the department I argued that police should not have to enforce morality. Drug use, prostitution and gambling are violations of a moral code, the laws condemning them having been passed relatively recently. Society condones alcohol and cigarettes yet condemns pot and prostitutes. Society's inability to come to terms with its own contradictions has gotten too many cops killed and injured. The churches should enforce morality, the police the laws. And our laws should not be based on any particular religion's code of morals.

I left the department for two reasons. First, I was too young and was becoming a total dick with everyone I knew. Dealing with the pressure of always being in a confrontation, always engaged in emotionally charged situations, was beyond my coping abilities. Instead, I decided to go into the Army, but not the military police. I chose military intelligence. I found I was much better at analyzing intelligence than I was at enforcing laws, especially laws I didn't agree with.

[underbear1]

A friend of mine not only fought an intrapment case, he got several cops fired and a judge removed from the bench.The proliferation of cameras will mean it will no longer be a cop's word against a citizen's word. Unfortunately you and I both know cops can stop in an alley on the way to the precinct, and "you accidently fall down several flights of stairs."
I no longer live in MN, now I'm in rural Louisiana, and you can bet your ass I would not trust being in custody in this state.
I'm 53 yo, so yes I recall the 60's and 70's style police brutality, and being in the anti war movement we had tear gas thrown at us repeatedly at the University of MN.

[bishop]

the quality of the police tends to be determined by the quality of the individual department... most police i've encountered have been good, but the ones in the town i grew up in (woodbridge) were corrupt and horrible..

aside from doing nothing but give suburbanites speeding tickets, i lived across the street from a lady whose dead husband was friends with the cops.. long story short, she was a total degenerate and used to call in favors to the cops. and, they always did her bidding out of respect for her dead husband.

growing up around that didn't exactly bolster my opinion of the police.. and moving up here to boston, and seeing 5 cars parked outside dunkin donuts didn't help much either.. i especially love when they put their lights on to race down the street - to pull into a dunkin donuts...

[Jack]

When did the term "pigs" go out of fashion? I must have slept through that decade.

[PatrickHenry]

Police work is a legitimate function of government. I respect the job that the 95% of cops do. But there are a few problems...

Many who sign up with the police department do so because of personality predilections. Meaning that many enjoy using their authority and some abuse it. I think that psychological studies have shown that often those who go into policing are high on the F-scale...F-scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My local police here in rural Hawaii are good people. They are community members who attend our churches, sponsor athletic teams and leagues, their kids go to school in the community, etc. Police work here is apparently underpaid by national standards, but hey, they get to live in Hawaii with a steady job that has retirement. And not too many folks here have handguns...

[underbear1]

Pigs was still used until 9/11 and for about a year police and fire departments got some deserved, and some over-rated raise in public opinion. I doubt they still retain much of that esteem.If things get uglier politically in the country in the next 2 years, police esteem will plumit to historic low levels, and maybe lower.
There are some of the white supremists and survivalists in Idaho who are scarey as sh*t, many are ex-cops from L.A.

[kubedawg]

My issues aren't with the police force as I see them to enforce the laws we are supposed to abide by. I am against the idiotic laws we have in place for certain "crimes" that cause no harm to anyone, or that would prove beneficial if it were removed or revised.

Lets talk speed limits. If speed limits are set, why make cars that are capable to go so fast? To make people feel they've got the best of the best partly, but I believe that the car manufaturers have certain deals with the government secretly to make us think it's ok to speed, as we have the ability to do so, even if it's unlawful.

I think speed limits should be revised, so that highways with 3 lanes should have a fast lane, faster lane, and fastest lane, so people can have more choice depending upon how much of a hurry they are in to get to their destination. A way to control slow drivers would be to pull them over for going under the designated minimum speed for that lane. The slowest lane should be 60mph max and 40min, medium lane should be 75mph max 55min, and the fastest lane should be 90mph 70min. The exits should depend on how long the exit is and also depend on the type of exit, such as a circular one, or a straight exit, and also depend on the area(mainly due to high traffic.) Pretty much I think exit speeds should be fluid so they otfen change, and make people more aware of these changes.

I was pulled over and cuffed for having an expired tag, and almost taken to jail, however, an officer(there were 5 of them) took me home and had my truck towed. The tag was only 3 months expired, and I have never been arrested before, and the only time I've been in trouble was about 3 or 4 speeding tickets(in 5 years.) I was pretty much humiliated for something that was really not that big of a deal.

There are obvious risks involved with dealing with someone of my size(6ft 9 350lbs) and because the window of my truck was broken(stereo was stolen,) they felt a need to search my vehicle. I had a repeater(bb/dart gun) which was for looks just in case, and it was hidden where cops weren't able to find it, however, when asked if I had any guns, knives, bombs, nuclear wapons, tanks, etc, I laughed and said no. Why did I feel the urge to do this? I dunno. But, regardless, I pretty much gave up my rights as a citizen to let them search, and although they found nothing of interest, I felt violated as they had the guns, and I was in cuffs. Police are intimidating to a point where a guy at my size can be afraid of what "could" happen.

Also, once, I was parked the wrong way in front of my parents house, and was given a ticket on my windshield, without any signature from me, and they got the color of my truck wrong, the tag # wrong, and my address wrong. Therefore, I ripped up the ticket and a few years later, nothing has happened.

Police should be there to protect citizens, and although I was parked the wrong way, I think it's common sense that if someone is parked on the wrong side of the road, to go around them, as if you were going around a parked car which had been parked correctly.

[copabeat]

By and large I agree with about 95% of the comments and complaints aganist Police stated here. ( I almost typed Police State, wow, Freud) I also believe we shouldn't have to enforce moral issues based on some peoples opinions of what is right or wrong. I also try not to enforce most of them if I really don't have to.

As much as hate to get into "war stories" I will relay one incident that changed my opinion of "Drug Enforcement" It was Christmas day about four years ago (exactly four this coming Christmas) Two men one a dealer one a buyer got into an argument over the quanity & quality of the crack he had purchased. The dealer pulled out his "Gatt" (gun) and fired a peanut (bullet") at his buyer and missed. The bullet struck a 7 year old boy who was riding his new bike his Mother had given him for Christmas. The bullet went through his left eye and into his brain killing him instantly. When I/we arrived on the scene his little sister about two or three at that time, was pleading with us to "bring him back, I know you can, I know you can over and over. running from Officer to Officer and the Paramedic's that responded to the scene. (while I am one the subject of Paramedics/EMS responders I will tell you this, these people are the most over worked under paid, unappreciated people on the planet, please respect and thank them once in awhile)

Anyway, I will never forget the look in that poor Mothers eye's if I live a hundred million years. It took me months to stop picturing her face every where I went and even longer to get over it, no I am lying I m still not over it. (Chritmas F******* day isn't any thing sacred anymore?)

The Mother gave me a picture of the boy from his pre-school graduation I carry it in my duty hat till this day. That was the key factor in changing my opinion on "Drug Enforcement" I have seen the utter devestation that drug abuse can cause on families and individuals alike. I don't know if "legalizing it" would help or hurt I am not sure, but I doubt it could get worst. The last weekend I worked a saturday 4x12 shift we had fourteen shootings in the trauma center at one time. ( that is not the record either) ALL were drug related.

Sorry about the mispelling and gramatical errors, but my spell check dosen't seem to work on this site, and I was typing this with tears coming from my eyes. I rarely preview my posts either.

[bishop]

if we actually enforced our southern border, we'd prevent the vast majority of drugs from ever entering the country in the first place..

[underbear1]

Quote by: bishop if we actually enforced our southern border, we'd prevent the vast majority of drugs from ever entering the country in the first place..

I seriously doubt it will have even a meager effect on drug trafficing. Too much gets brought in by mules in their bodies, ships, containers, trucks,etc.
Bill Maher had a funny line last night about the 700 mile fence on a 2000 mile border, he said it's like using fishnet condoms...........ROFLMQAO!

[shield772]

I like Ish am an ex-cop, I was a Deputy Sheriff in Sarasota Florida from 1989 till 1995, I have great respect and understanding for the position that police are put in, but I don't believe that the statement someone mad in this thread that anytime police are charged with or found guilty of misconduct it should get such massive attention, they are people just like everyone else, and since police must be recruited from the human race you are going to get some bad apples and I think the figure of about 5% is accurate, but that means 95% are good honest men and women doing an underpaid thankless job, under my name I keep a running tab of officers killed in the line of duty, hardly any of which makes the news, but everytime a bad cop gets caught it gets national attention and I think that is wrong.

[Osborn F Enready]

copabeat, my honest opinion.....

I think police, especially Sheriffs, all around this nation need to step forward and take signed pledges, that they will not enforce laws that violate the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or the Individual Rights of any citizen within their jurisdiction.

This alone would do VOLUMES for public cooperation, and acceptance, especially if you mean it.

Check out these sites....

- Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

P&MANWO - Welcome

These people have my full, and utmost support.

[copabeat]

Shield772:
Thanks for your service to your community brother. Like you I also try to stay on top of the amount of Officers killed in the line of duty. I get e-mails from an Officer on the Board of the (IALEFI)"international association of Law Enforcement firearms instructors" once a week at least. Yesterday alone I counted fourteen and I only had heard about one. ( because he was Killed in the City right next door to me.)

I know one was a 30 year old Father of four or five children. There was another incident in which a teenage( non-licensed) DWI suspect pinned a Police Sergeant by throwing the car in reverse and pinning the both Officers & Sergeant against a fence. The Officer fearing for his life and that of his partner, fired a bullet through the rear window striking the perp in the head and killed him. The Sergeant that fired the shot is still in the Hospital I believe with very critical injuries. He will probably wind up facing charges in todays day & age. The same guy that forwarded me those articles also sent me an article about a S.C. Officer who in the fiight of his life and suffered a heart attack, shot the suspect three times when the suspect and he were fighting to gain control of his gun that the suspect had actually grabbed from his holster ( level three security holster or nothing for me and even they are not fool proof.) The S.C. Officer was charged with MURDER not even manslauther, he was finally vindicated by the jury ,all said not guilty. The prosecutor or what ever they call them down there was quoted as saying he should have been convicted despite all the evidence to the contrary. The article is called " it's scarey how easily an Officer can be charged with murder" If you would like i can supply you with them if you give your me your e-mail address. I would happy to forward them both (Articles with all the links) I will caution you however, I am not the most computer savy guy on the block, which is probably obvious by the way I post. We just went to computer generated reports about a year ago and not fully either. ( I still prefer the old "Smith Corona's with correcto tape& carbon paper) LOL I have to go now my eight track tapes are dragging, I crack myself up really, someones gotta laugh at me.)

[shield772]

Quote by: copabeat Shield772: Thanks for your service to your community brother. Like you I also try to stay on top of the amount of Officers killed in the line of duty. I get e-mails from an Officer on the Board of the (IALEFI)"international association of Law Enforcement firearms instructors" once a week at least. Yesterday alone I counted fourteen and I only had heard about one. ( because he was Killed in the City right next door to me.) I know one was a 30 year old Father of four or five children. There was another incident in which a teenage( non-licensed) DWI suspect pinned a Police Sergeant by throwing the car in reverse and pinning the both Officers & Sergeant against a fence. The Officer fearing for his life and that of his partner, fired a bullet through the rear window striking the perp in the head and killed him. The Sergeant that fired the shot is still in the Hospital I believe with very critical injuries. He will probably wind up facing charges in todays day & age. The same guy that forwarded me those articles also sent me an article about a S.C. Officer who in the fiight of his life and suffered a heart attack, shot the suspect three times when the suspect and he were fighting to gain control of his gun that the suspect had actually grabbed from his holster ( level three security holster or nothing for me and even they are not fool proof.) The S.C. Officer was charged with MURDER not even manslauther, he was finally vindicated by the jury ,all said not guilty. The prosecutor or what ever they call them down there was quoted as saying he should have been convicted despite all the evidence to the contrary. The article is called " it's scarey how easily an Officer can be charged with murder" If you would like i can supply you with them if you give your me your e-mail address. I would happy to forward them both (Articles with all the links) I will caution you however, I am not the most computer savy guy on the block, which is probably obvious by the way I post. We just went to computer generated reports about a year ago and not fully either. ( I still prefer the old "Smith Corona's with correcto tape& carbon paper) LOL I have to go now my eight track tapes are dragging, I crack myself up really, someones gotta laugh at me.)

I use this site to keep track

Honoring Officers Killed in the Year 2006