Trade center demolition

[Wonderblob]

There’s somthin happinin here.

The other day I watched one of the conspiracy theory videos about 911. 9/11 Controlled Demolitions of September 11, 2001 - Google Video
In the past I was skeptical about the possibility of a conspiracy. After watching the video several times and looking at a lot of other evidence I have concluded that it is a fact. The twin towers almost had to be brought down with thermite and explosives placed in strategic locations. When you watch building seven coming down it becomes undeniable.

I started thinking about the way events have unfolded in the last fifty years and it all starts to make sense.

People we have had a coup. Our country has been taken away from us.

I pray that I have just become paranoid but my senses tell me otherwise.
A secret world order organization is calling the shots now.
They have for the most part taken over the United States Government and many other governments. World domination and financial enslavement is their goal. They are dangerously close to having their way.
Think about it.
It all started when we let them put ‘One nation under God” in our pledge of allegiance and “In God we trust” on our money. That is when the corporate brainwashing machine started to stuff our brains with fluff and nonsense through television and. corporate controlled media. The God thing gives them this huge base of people who were already easily brainwashed because they actually believe the Bible is really the word of God so their sense of reason is completely discombobulated. Our government began to hide the fact that our country was founded on principles of freedom from religion and Deistic principles that God can only be realized through our God given sense of reason as we behold the Universe.

The whole Joseph McCarthy thing was just an experiment to see if they could scare us into submission

The Kennedy’s would not play the game their way so they were bumped off.

Jimmy Carter didn’t want to play their game so they just humiliated him out of the picture.

The Iran Contra scandal proved they have no morals.
They have supported every fascist dictator and government that would let them exploit their resources and people. And tried to destroy any who would not.

Ronald Reagan passed laws that made it OK for our Government to deceive us through perception management techniques. He then passed laws that made it OK for the media to give us a dishonest version of any newsworthy event without any one being allowed to offer another version of the facts.

Bill Clinton sold his soul to them. I also believe Al Gore and John Kerry have also.
Mr. Gore would have challenged the outcome of his presidential election otherwise. He actually blocked a challenge to it.
John Kerry being a devout member of Skull and Bones puts him in the thick of things.

The anthrax scare was a contrived effort to scare us further into submission.

And then came 911. I can tell from the smirk on George Bush’s face in that school building he knew it was coming.

The Jon Bonet Ramsey media circus and all the tabloid fluff are designed and timed specifically to take peoples minds off of the horrible blunders and catastrophic consequences of their disastrous wars. This last guy that confessed to her murder was a plant to cover up Israel’s blunders in Lebanon. I knew this from the very first day I heard about him.
The evidence goes on and on and on.

The big question is who are they? Skull and Bones? The Carlyle Group? The Jews? The Nazi’s? one thing you can bet on. Exxon is in on it. Halliburton is in on it Westinghouse is in on it. General Electric, the American Medical Association, Diebold, the CIA
The list goes on and on of potential conspirators.

Please call me a paranoid schizophrenic.
I hope that is all it is.

People we had better wake up and take our country back.
The coming elections just may just be our last chance.

[PatrickHenry]

Elections are rigged. They won't help. You must educate yourself concerning the New World Order.

Granted that there are quite a few wackos concocting absurd theories. There are also paid disinformation agents that compose wild scenarios to throw the researchers off the track. However, the truth is emerging and I am hopeful that those opposed to the War on Freedom will prevail.

[brien]

Quote by: Wonderblob There’s somthin happinin here. The other day I watched one of the conspiracy theory videos about 911. 9/11 Controlled Demolitions of September 11, 2001 - Google Video In the past I was skeptical about the possibility of a conspiracy. After watching the video several times and looking at a lot of other evidence I have concluded that it is a fact. The twin towers almost had to be brought down with thermite and explosives placed in strategic locations. When you watch building seven coming down it becomes undeniable.

More TV reality shows:rolleyes: Building # 7 had tons of diesel fuel in it to fuel the emergency generators. In any event, you can join in with the conspiracy crowd here and you will be in good company. I respect my fellow members here, but when it comes to this particular conspiracy, well, let's just say I require more proof, much more proof and explanations than we see now.

[PatrickHenry]

So, brien. Diesel fuel creates controlled demolitions onto the building's own footprint?

I wonder why anyone would hire expensive demolition corporations...just bring in bladders of diesel fuel...

[brien]

Quote by: PatrickHenry So, brien. Diesel fuel creates controlled demolitions onto the building's own footprint? I wonder why anyone would hire expensive demolition corporations...just bring in bladders of diesel fuel...

PH Not going to argue the merits of exploding buildings. Diesel fuel in the amount that was in Bldg #7 can cause explosions. People hire expensive controlled demo experts because they can bring down buildings without the use of a lot of diesel fuel, but that doesn't negate the fact that diesel fuel is an explosive and can bring down buildings.

I really don't want to argue this conspiracy theory because that is all it is here. Not interested. Just wanted to make a comment. Dismiss it as you will.:)

[ibm]

sure diesel could be explosive. but can it bring building 7 down AND into itself?

in the case of 9/11, conspiracy for right now might be officially still a theory. but i tend to think it is already much more convincing than the official version of the story, which is like a cheddar cheese with a lots of holes.

[brien]

Quote by: ibm sure diesel could be explosive. but can it bring building 7 down AND into itself? in the case of 9/11, conspiracy for right now might be officially still a theory. but i tend to think it is already much more convincing than the official version of the story, which is like a cheddar cheese with a lots of holes.

I don't pretend to know.

[webjedi]

MIT produced a report a long, long time ago which disputes your assertions. I think I'll stick with the analysis of physicists and engineers who have pioneered hundreds of significant advances for man over many decades over yours.

As far as 9/11 being a conspiracy of corporations or political parties: that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The problem with that theory is it suggests that whomever these conspirators were they were willing to (A) sacrifice the lives of people they knew, and (B) potentially ruin the World economy. Even if you believe that there is some organization that is capable of keeping all their friends, families, associates, and the FBI, CIA, etc. in the dark about such a huge, evil plot, why in the hell would rich people who already rule the World want to destroy the economy that keeps them rich??? That doesn't make the least bit of sense.

Add that to the fact that any leak of this would ruin their organization and make them all vulnerable to significant repercussions by the business community, Wall Street, the entire defense industry and Armed Forces, the entire U.S. Government, citizen groups of every stripe and creed (like the NRA, ACLU, AARP, etc., etc.), every reporter in the media, and opportunists who would be able to profit from bringing this to light - it would be the hight of stupidity for these people to risk their power, money, and themselves.

Furthermore, how does any of that explain the Pentagon? I knew people who worked at the Pentagon who lost loved ones and co-workers. I lived a few miles from there at the time. I saw first hand, and have pictures of the damage. I also know that nobody at the Pentagon would close their eyes if it was going to be attacked, much less help it to happen. Considering that it is the HQ of the U.S. Military, which has a pretty good idea of what is going on in the World, it is hard to reconcile the case you present.

You may well find some people on this board who think the American Medical Association and Exxon blew up the World Trade Center, flew a plane into the Pentagon, and sent thousands of people to their deaths, but I'm not one of them. Whatever the underlying reasons one has for believing conspiracy theories, they are rarely anywhere near reality.

:::

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: webjedi Whatever the underlying reasons one has for believing conspiracy theories, they are rarely anywhere near reality. :::

Except for the fact that the conspirators KNEW PRECISELY the date and hour of wargames that included LIVE FLY exercises, which confused the defenders of the Northeastern airspace, leading to failure to make a timely response. I wonder who revealed this crucial information to "America's enemies?" And their agenda may not be so simple as some simple minds can conceive...

[Wonderblob]

Quote by: brien PH Not going to argue the merits of exploding buildings. Diesel fuel in the amount that was in Bldg #7 can cause explosions. People hire expensive controlled demo experts because they can bring down buildings without the use of a lot of diesel fuel, but that doesn't negate the fact that diesel fuel is an explosive and can bring down buildings. I really don't want to argue this conspiracy theory because that is all it is here. Not interested. Just wanted to make a comment. Dismiss it as you will.:)

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I own a company that sells and services standby generators. I also know quite a bit about diesel. Its number one asset is that it is not explosive. It has to be under conditions not achievable in a building to explode even then the combustion is very slow. I can also promise you that the fuel was not stored any where near the major structural components of the building.
Building 7 was brought down by controlled demolition. It is indisputable.

[webjedi]

Quote by: PatrickHenry the conspirators KNEW PRECISELY the date and hour of wargames

How do you know what they knew? I haven't heard of the wargames before, but I would imagine it was a coincidence, of which there were many. If you want to see how far one can go reading into major events look at this:

Rev. 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the
bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is 1Abaddon,
but in the Greek tongue hath his name 2Apollyon

Mohammed's birth is celebrated on the 11th day of the 9th month

September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year.

119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11.

Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11.

The number of stories is 110 (2x) 110 - 110
Remember that the zero "0" is not a number, so we have 11:11

The number of Tower windows = 21,800 2+1+8+0+0 = 11

The third building #7 to fall had 47 stories = 4+7=11

The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11

American Airlines number1-800-245-0999

1+8+0+0+2+4+5+0+9+9+9=47 = 11

State of New York - The 11th State added to the Union

New York City - 11 Letters

Afghanistan - 11 Letters

The Pentagon - 11 Letters

Ramzi Yousef - 11 Letters
(convicted of orchestrating the bombing attack on the WTC in 1993.
He is a blind man.
He was a Muslim teacher in a mosque)

If you annagram 'Osama bin Laden' you get.... "A blind Man O sea"....
'Man o sea' is spanish for..."a man that is"
If you say it...'A Man o sea blind' it means... 'A man that is blind'
If you put in "a man o sea blind" into a language translator
it gives you back... ' to the man that is blind'
Since Osama bin Laden means 'A man that is blind'
you have 'the blind man leading the blind'

George W. Bush - 11 Letters

Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11

Flight 11 had 11 crew members

Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11

The Flight 11 call letters were AA11: A=1, A=1, AA=11.

Four of the hijackers on flight AA11 have the initials A. A. for their names: AA=11.

The fifth AA11 hijacker was the pilot, Mohamed Atta, 11 letters, and AA in last name.

Flight AA11 had 92 people on board - 9 + 2 = 11.

Flight AA11 had 11 crew members - 2 pilots and 9 flight attendants.

The target of Flight AA11 was in New York City -11 letters.

The State of New York was the 11th State added to the Union.

Manhattan Island was discovered on Sept. 11, 1609 by Henry Hudson -11 letters.

Trade Center is 11 letters, and Skyscrapers is 11 letters.

World Trade Center Towers is 22 letters - 2 x 11 =22.

The WTC Twin Towers - standing side by side, look like the number 11.

The first WTC tower hit (North Tower) collapses at 10:28 A.M. -1+2+8=11.

The 1st Fire Unit to arrive to the WTC towers was FDNY Unit 1. Unit 1 lost 11 firemen.

The WTC towers collapsed to a height of 11 stories.

After 99 days of burning, NYC declares the WTC fires are extinguished - 9 x 11 = 99.

The World Trade Center fires burn continuously for 99 days, between September 11, 2001 and

December 19, 2001. The World Trade Center fire is the longest burning commercial fire in U.S. history.

On September 7, 2002, NYC Medical Examiners announced the revised official

death toll from the World Trade Center attacks was 2,801 - (2+8+0+1 = 11).

On the morning of September 11, 2002 the names of 2,801 victims were read at a Ground Zero

Ceremony. It took 2 ½ hours to read all the names.

According to the FBI, earlier terrorists originally planned to hijack 11 planes.

Thirty days after the attack, the FBI releases a Most Wanted Terrorist List with 22 names.

Mohammed, the prophet of the Muslim faith, died in 632 A.D. - 6+3+2=11.

The Taliban's Manual of Afghan Jihad (Holy War) is 11 volumes.

119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran - 1 + 1 + 9 = 11.

The League of Arab States is comprised of 22 Arab nations - 2 x 11 = 22.

The suspected base of the terrorists is Afghanistan - 11 Letters.

Osama bin Laden's birthplace is Saudi Arabia - 11 letters.

Ramzi Yousef - convicted of orchestrating the 1993 WTC attack - 11 Letters.

The Prime Minister of Israel - Ariel Sharon - 11 Letters.

Deputy PM, & Minister of Foreign Affairs for Israel - Shimon Peres - 11 Letters.


On Friday 9-13-2001, President George W. Bush went to the WTC to talk with and thank the Firefighters, rescuers, and police officers who have given their time and hearts tirelessly 24 hours a day since the horrible tragedy. President Bush stood on top of a pile of rubble with a firefighter whose helmet was numbered 164.
1+6+4 = 11

The train which was stopped and two suspected terrorist arrested near San Antonio, Texas was #121 = 11 x 11

The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11 by
American Airlines or AA - A=1st letter in alphabet so we have again 11:11

The house where the terrorist are believed to have lived had # 10001
(don't count the zeros)

Flight 11, 93, 175, 77 -

If these numbers are broken down, 11 actually remains the same in numerology,
93 becomes 12, 175 becomes 13 and 77 becomes 14. 11 - 12 - 13 - 14
Broken down again and you have 2 - 3 = 4 - 5.
Add them all up and break them all down!

11 + 93 + 175 + 77 = 356 = 14 = 5

11 + 12 + 13 + 14 = 50 = 5

2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = 14 = 5

Twin Towers =11 + Flight 11 + September, 11th = 33

The number "33" is linked to Freemasonry.

[Wonderblob]

I read scanned the MIT report and find it conflictive by nature. I mean isn't MIT the number one military think tank. That alone should disqualify them from making definatve judgements on this issue.
All throughout the report I saw where they could not make definatve assesments because they wern't allowed access to the evidence. Thats funny the evidence was systematiclly destroyed without any one being able to analyse it. gee I wonder why? After all their mathematic mumbo jumbo. It seems all they could conclude is that it was probable that the aircraft impacts could have brought them down.
All the math in the world will not convince me that there was a sytematic structural failure that allowed them to collapse into there own footprint the way they did.
The odds of one of them doing it are very slim. The odds of both of them doing it are less than 1000 to 1 the odds of building 7 coming down with almost no structural impact. is less than that of winning the powerball lottery. remembe no fire in the history of modern archetcture has ever brought a highrise building down.
No I am sure very few people were aware of the planned demolition.
You sound like the O'riely spin machine when you talk about people thinking the AMA or the CIA blew up the world trade center.
All I mean is the corporate world order is complacently conspiring to take our democracy away from us.
I am sure very few people knew about a plot for the WTC demolition. It probably went somthing like, George said to Dick make something happen so I can start a war that no one will question. Dick turned it over to the Isreali Secret Service. They had a little help from a few personel plantaed in the CIA. They knew ther would be massive casualties. hey its all just collateral damage. isn't it? I mean they would have no problem sacrificing yoiur son or mine. would they?

[Wonderblob]

Webjedi
here is your MIT expert.
MIT Engineer Breaks Down WTC Controlled Demolition - Google Video
If you have the courage to watch it.
The Blob

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: webjedi How do you know what they knew? I haven't heard of the wargames before, but I would imagine it was a coincidence, of which there were many.

The attacks were timed PRECISELY with a morning of multiple wargames which resulted in squadrons being absent from station and ALSO with additional games including phantom bogies and live fly exercises, including a simulated PLANE CRASH into NRO HQ. I believe that a coincidence of this nature is evidence of a conspiracy near the top of the US government. If you are too blind to see this then maybe you should schedule an optometry appointment. And if you are unaware of the games concurrent with the attacks of September 11, you may wish to do a little research so you don't seem so ignorant.
Here ya' go: United States military exercises scheduled for September 11, 2001 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote by: webjedi If you want to see how far one can go reading into major events look at this: Rev. 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is 1Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name 2Apollyon Mohammed's birth is celebrated on the 11th day of the 9th month ...linked to Freemasonry.

Blah, blah, blah, red herring, strawman, appeal to absurdity, etc. etc.

Very funny, but we are debating real events and real circumstances, buddy. That kind of crap contributes to the debate exactly ZERO. So read up, then maybe post an INFORMED opinion.

ibm and Wonderblob, I liked this article: September 11, Afghanistan and “the survival of civilization”

After five years the truth about what happened on September 11, 2001 is still unknown. The US government has lied and deceived its own people and the world. But the official narrative has been used by Washington and London to wage war against innocent countries, to mass murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people, to reopen concentration camps, to kidnap and torture, and to curtail freedom and civil liberties at home. Tel Aviv has used the September 11 events to step up ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Palestinian People so to carry out the Zionist dream of the Greater Israel. We need to remember that whatever happened that day of five years ago, Afghanistan had nothing to do with it. Waging a war against that country because of the attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon was like waging a war against Denmark. Whoever is responsible for the September 11, 2001 events [and we don’t know it yet!] the reason for the aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq must be found somewhere else. Looking back at the comments made just after the attacks in New York and Washington, those made by former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu before the Government Reform Committee of the House of Representatives in Washington on September 20, 2001 have now the power of a prophecy. “What is at stake today is nothing less than the survival of our civilization.” Netanyahu made a call for a total war against the Arab and Muslim world. [Rupert Murdoch’s New York Post published a shorter version of Netanyahu’s statement the following day.] Of course he named the Palestinian territories. And thanks to Israel, the situation in the Palestinian territories is today worse than ever, with genocide taking place in Gaza in these very hours. He named Afghanistan, and Afghanistan was invaded and occupied. He named Iraq, and Iraq was invaded and occupied. He named Lebanon, and Lebanon was bombed and destroyed. On that list Netanyahu names a few other countries too, among them Syria and Iran. Those countries have not been bombed yet. But it’s just a matter of time and “Benjamin Netanyahu, the head of the hard-line Likud Party who just five months ago was soundly defeated in elections, has now emerged as the most popular Israeli politician” according to a poll by the Dahaf Institute, published at the end of August in the Yediot Ahronot daily. “If elections were held now, Netanyahu's right-wing Likud would emerge as the strongest party… Right-wing and religious parties would form the largest bloc in parliament… When given a choice between Netanyahu and Olmert as prime minister, 45 percent chose Netanyahu and 24 percent supported Olmert. Netanyahu's renewed popularity comes after a year on the political fringe, following his opposition to Israel's unilateral pullout from the Gaza Strip last summer.” “Today we are all Americans”, said Netanyahu five years ago. The West was quick to repeat this slogan, which had nothing to do with the solidarity with the victims of the September 11 attacks but a call for a total war that should have been fought by the US in Israel’s interest. Is that what’s been happening? It’s obvious that the control of the energy resources by our capitalist dictatorship is an important element to understand what’s been happening in the last five years, but it cannot be the only reason to explain the geo-political complexity. Far from being a conspiracy theory, the Jewish-Zionist-Israeli lobby is a fact of life. Its power could be seen once again in all its deadly strength just a few weeks ago, when the whole world was condemned to be a powerless spectator in front of the destruction inflicted against Lebanon. This lobby exercises its power in many different countries and through many different ways and it’s understandable that the lobby itself tries to suppress open discussion, dissent and freedom of speech through charges of anti-Semitism every time someone tries to question its role in today’s world. More difficult instead it’s to understand the reasons of the Jewish-Zionist-Israeli lobby’s deniers among those who try to fight imperialism, in this historical moment that sees imperialism and Zionism allied against humanity.

[Chris]

RE the fires:

The fireproofing on the steel at the WTC was blown away by the planes. the other examples of fires in skyscrapers didn't have a plane hit them at 300+ mph

[PatrickHenry]

Which plane hit WTC7?

[Chris]

both of them.

Damage from both towers, caused 7 to collapse.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Chris both of them. Damage from both towers, caused 7 to collapse.

You really think so?

I guess we should stay out of tall steel buildings, snicker.

Ever watch the videos of the collapse of WTC7? Classic CD, complete with the dust puffs from explosives.

[Chris]

No, classic CD to me is actual flashes like this Raleigh, NC Building Implosion - Google Video

And who went in and placed these explosives? And at what time of day or night? Do you have any idea how much TNT it would take to bring those buildings down? And on top of that how they would plant it under people's noses who work there?

[Wonderblob]

. The fires were 1000 degrees to cold to cause catastrophic failure of the steel. It was also starved for oxygen as was evidenced by all the black smoke. It would have boiled water but it would not have melted steel. The fire proofing is there to prevent the steel from absorbing and transferring the heat between floors not to keep it from melting. The fires are no explanation for the failure of the vertical structure below. It had to be a very precise controlled demolition.
Kerosene burns very slowly and at relatively cool temperatures at atmospheric pressure.