Trade center demolition

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Clarence Just so you know, I believe terrorists are responsible for 9/11.

Yeah but they aren't Arabs.

Are Zionists Behind Banning of Truthful 9/11 Scientist?

"literally molten steel" had been found, more than a month after the collapse, at the bases of the collapsed towers, where their load-bearing central support columns connected to the bedrock. "Such persistent and intense residual heat, 70 feet below the surface, could explain how these crucial structural supports failed," I wrote at the time. Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, New York, told this reporter he had seen pools of "literally molten steel" at the World Trade Center, where his company had been contracted to remove debris, weeks after the three towers collapsed. Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Maryland, wrote the clean-up plan for the WTC and confirmed the presence of molten metal at the site. "Yes," Loizeaux said, "hot spots of molten steel in the basements." These incredibly hot areas were found "at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven [basement] levels," Loizeaux said. The molten steel was found "three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed," he said. Loizeaux also confirmed that molten iron had been found in the rubble of WTC 7, the tower owned by Larry Silverstein which was neither hit by an airplane nor severely damaged, but which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon of 9/11. In 2005, Jones began investigating the collapse of WTC 7 and the large amounts of molten iron seen falling from the burning South Tower. These two subjects remain completely unexplained in the official literature on 9/11.

[Clarence]

Quote by: from Pat's link The molten steel was found "three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed," he said. Loizeaux also confirmed that molten iron had been found in the rubble of WTC 7, the tower owned by Larry Silverstein which was neither hit by an airplane nor severely damaged, but which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon of 9/11.

Why was the crime scene of the greatest known crime in american history being removed so quickly?

As for the molten metal. I have done some welding and cutting of metal. It cools quickly enough in the open air. Some would say, well, it was buried beneath a highly insulating fine concrete powder. True. But for the metal to be molten in the first place it would have to have been somewhere above 2400 degrees f depending on the compound. What temperature did the fuel burn? For how long? A thermite reaction is around 4000 degrees f and requires no external source of oxygen so the reaction would presumably continue under wraps.

There has to be some valid explaination why the metal was molten in the first place. Jet fuel isn't it. How would a jet engine hold together? Besides, in the NIST report they conceded up to 30% up the fuel was exploded in the air outside the towers. They also said the fuel was dispersed amongst multiple floors, not concentrated. Butane torches are common. Once I needed to weaken 1/4 inch steel plates 4" x 4" to bend them to fit the floor board of my race car. I was trying to take some of the temper out of the metal and then reheat it and pound it into shape. Butane combustion produces a flame 2500 f (btw always farenheit from now on, ok?). Anyways, it didn't work. I was holding the torch to the metal for waay longer than ten minutes total to no avail. That's why experts use acetylene. For what it's worth.

Perhaps friction from all that mass falling so far caused all the heat?

Then there's the other half of the official story. impact. Impact from an aluminum bird traveling 500-600 mph sheared steel supports. Again, for all my real life experience with impacts, I'm definitly no expert. RIP Nissan Sentra, VW Golf and Jetta. But, take a piece of junk iron (not steele) rebar. make a long peice for science's sake. Take a steel blade of the strongest kind you can find (not aluminum). Put that rebar in the shop vise and hack away. The scale speed of the whatever blade is garaunteed to surpass 500-600mph. Couple of nicks, maybe. But lets just say it did happen. The aluminum skeleton did shear not one but upwards of ten main steel supports.

The slideshow makes an analogy of cutting the leg off a stool. How does that stool fall?

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: Sonart And it would have to be placed at exactly the floors that would later be hit by cumbersome, fully laden aircraft,

Quote by: Clarence Why?

Because that's where each of the Towers began their collapse, so therefore that's where the charges had to have been placed. Duh.

Unless you agree with Gr8fuldaniel, that all the floors were rigged for demo, since you can see smoke billowing from each floor in succession as the buildings collapsed. (After all, it couldn't possibly have been that the force of the collapsing building pancaking on the floors below forced air, smoke and debris outward) Imagine, every single floor rigged with tons of explosives, without a soul noticing.

Quote by: Clarence It is highly repeat highly inlikely the burning jet fuel would've started the chemical reactions. It really didn't matter what floors were hit.

And the detonators?

Quote by: Clarence I think it's obvious extremist hi-jackers were flying the planes. What?

So let me get this straight. You think al-Qaeda was working with our government to destroy the towers? :eek: I don't know where to even begin with the logical flaws in that idea.

Quote by: Clarence Why was the crime scene of the greatest known crime in american history being removed so quickly?

More mythology. For one, because initially there was rescue work going on, along with recovery. Second, every scrap was sent to the Fresh Kills land fill on Staten Island for inspection and analysis.

Quote by: Clarence The slideshow makes an analogy of cutting the leg off a stool. How does that stool fall?

Except the planes didn't cut off a corner of the buildings... they entering the buildings and destroyed the core interior supporting structures of several floors, causing the floors above to sag inward. As the fires weakened -- not melted -- the remaining steel supports, the sagging would become more exaggerated until they eventually collapsed... from the inside out.

Quote by: Patrick Henry We hear you. But the facts are that the evidence to support the official story is unconvincing to millions. The 9/11=inside job won't go away.

Yeah, yeah... and millions of Americans can't find Canada on a map, while millions more believe that space aliens built the great pyramids. Millions of Americans simply don't what to believe that 10 Arabs with boxcutters could bring down the two most powerful symbols of American superiority.

.

[Clarence]

Quote by: Sonart . Because that's where each of the Towers began their collapse, so therefore that's where the charges had to have been placed. Duh.

you're video is fragmented in such a way that it appears the tower is actually falling out from under the damaged area. Watch how the whole mess starts moving downward simultaneously. Can someone put up the better videos that show how the buildings falling down on themselves?

Unless you agree with Gr8fuldaniel, that all the floors were rigged for demo, since you can see smoke billowing from each floor in succession as the buildings collapsed. (After all, it couldn't possibly have been that the force of the collapsing building pancaking on the floors below forced air, smoke and debris outward) Imagine, every single floor rigged with tons of explosives, without a soul noticing.

Look, we speculate. Dan's just trying to make sense of it like me. BTW not explosives. Thermite. What about the detonators?

So let me get this straight. You think al-Qaeda was working with our government to destroy the towers? :eek: I don't know where to even begin with the logical flaws in that idea.

You speak of our gov't like it is a single entity where if one knows, everyone knows. Bin Laden and Bush Cabal = not enemies is what I need disproved. Where did they fall off? Why?Don't be obtuse. It's fine when you introduce logic to my wild suspicion. I think it's obvious there are connections in the middle east. Tendrils of authority here and there. I mean, look how we invaded Iraq before the military even crossed the border. We hijacked that mofo. Yaknowhatmsayin? Perfect example of the way our influences have played out over there. In this environment, there are no rules. heh. I sound like a late ninties hip hop track. 'cept spelled rulz. anyway, moving on.

How long did it take to remove the last bit of the trade center? I honestly don't know. The NPR article you gave me said May 2002 if it is correct. Is that fast? I'd imagine the cleanup of the site would be a process of simultaneously removing the smaller stuff and removing the big stuff as you uncover it. Sometimes the big stuff would have to be cut down. Thermite might have been used for this. There's other aspects of the cleanup and supplied article we could discuss,too. Like the part about recovering personbables. But how do we account for the molten metal in the heap?

Except the planes didn't cut off a corner of the buildings... they entering the buildings and destroyed the core interior supporting structures of several floors, causing the floors above to sag inward. As the fires weakened -- not melted -- the remaining steel supports, the sagging would become more exaggerated until they eventually collapsed... from the inside out.

can see that. picture it. The structure is so large, it's almost brittle in it's hugeness. I can also picture it another way. The combined force (punching power) of the plane and resulting explosion kinda gave it a shove there and it just kinda cracked the egg. Huge structures. House of cards. oversimplified, I guess.

Yeah, yeah... and millions of Americans can't find Canada on a map, while millions more believe that space aliens built the great pyramids. Millions of Americans simply don't what to believe that 10 Arabs with boxcutters could bring down the two most powerful symbols of American superiority.

Yeah, millions of children or otherwise uneducated people. What's yer point?

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: Clarence Setting the bar awfully damn low there, aren't you?

They're all over the Internet, Clarence. Find them yourself. I'm confident they'll all show the same thing, on both towers... the top portions of the towers - intact - suddenly beginning to fall with the collapse of a single floor at some point where the airstrikes took place.

Quote by: Clarence Look, we speculate. Dan's just trying to make sense of it like me. BTW not explosives. Thermite. What about the detonators?

Nope... the whole "planted demolition" idea came about because of the visible "explosions" we can see - supposedly - on the videos.

Detonators. Thermite won't ignite under less than a couple thousand degrees. Right? Therefore it needs, like most explosives, a detonator to ignite it. So what's to keep the detonators from going off with the blast and heat of the aircraft explosions, and igniting the Thermite.

Quote by: Clarence Don't be obtuse.

Don't be obtuse??????? You think elements of our government and al-Qaeda have something in common worth destroying the WTC, the Pentagon and either the White House or Congress? You think our invasion of Afghanistan was just a way of slappin' them around a bit to throw off suspicion? You think it only took a few 'in the know' folks to pull off something so monumentally complex as the plot you're surmizing, all without a soul every leaking even a hint of it? Don't be obtuse?????????

.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Wonderblob Please call me a paranoid schizophrenic. I hope that is all it is.

I will just call you what you are a moron!

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: GHook93 I will just call you what you are a moron!

Spoken like a true sheep.

[GHook93]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Spoken like a true sheep.

Did you read the post? Even if you are ignornant enough to believe the US government was responsible for 9/11, this guy's theory is way out there in left-field!

[Wonderblob]

Quote by: GHook93 Did you read the post? Even if you are ignornant enough to believe the US government was responsible for 9/11, this guy's theory is way out there in left-field!

Hey Moron, No it was way out in right field where Sheeple like you are gullible enough to wallow in the crap you are being fed.






Banned From The Classroom
911 Physics Scientist Who
Proved Thermite Involved
In WTC Demolitions
By ChristopherBollyn
9-17-6


Like a modern-day Galileo or Socrates, the highly respected physicist, who has challenged with logic and scientific evidence the official explanation for the "collapse" of the World Trade Center, has been banned from teaching classes at his university.

On September 7, the third day of the new fall semester at Brigham Young University (BYU) in Provo, Utah, Steven E. Jones, professor of physics and 9/11 researcher, was suddenly banned by university authorities from teaching the physics classes he has taught for the past 21 years. Jones was unexpectedly suspended with pay after participating in a radio show in which he had been cunningly lured to comment on a subject outside of his field ­ the "motivation" of "the Neo-Conservatives" blamed for the terror attacks of September 11, 2001.

Jones, a soft-spoken physicist who specializes in metal-catalyzed fusion, archaeometry, and solar energy, joined the 9/11 research effort after being intrigued by the unexplained collapse of the 47-story WTC 7 at 5:25 p.m. on the afternoon of 9/11. Jones scientific interest was sparked after having read the August 2002 report in American Free Press that molten iron had been found in the rubble of all three collapsed WTC towers ­ including WTC 7.

As this reporter discovered in the summer of 2002, "literally molten steel" had been found, more than a month after the collapse, at the bases of the collapsed towers, where their load-bearing central support columns connected to the bedrock. "Such persistent and intense residual heat, 70 feet below the surface, could explain how these crucial structural supports failed," I wrote at the time.

Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction of Flushing, New York, told this reporter he had seen pools of "literally molten steel" at the World Trade Center, where his company had been contracted to remove debris, weeks after the three towers collapsed.

Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Phoenix, Maryland, wrote the clean-up plan for the WTC and confirmed the presence of molten metal at the site.

"Yes," Loizeaux said, "hot spots of molten steel in the basements." These incredibly hot areas were found "at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, down seven [basement] levels," Loizeaux said.

The molten steel was found "three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed," he said. Loizeaux also confirmed that molten iron had been found in the rubble of WTC 7, the tower owned by Larry Silverstein which was neither hit by an airplane nor severely damaged, but which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon of 9/11.

In 2005, Jones began investigating the collapse of WTC 7 and the large amounts of molten iron seen falling from the burning South Tower. These two subjects remain completely unexplained in the official literature on 9/11.

"The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time," the FEMA-sponsored WTC Building Performance Study of 2002 concluded. "Although the total diesel fuel on the premises contained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence," it said. The way that the building collapsed within its own footprint suggested that it was an "internal collapse," the report said.

The long awaited NIST report on the collapse of WTC 7 is supposed to be released next year.

BYU ANALYSIS OF MOLTEN METAL

The question of what caused the 47 load-bearing central columns of the twin towers to fall has been a fundamental question about the unexplained collapses of the WTC towers. The fire-induced collapse scenario does not explain why these crucial internal box columns would have failed.

Last summer, after obtaining pieces of the hardened molten fragments from the WTC, Jones and other scientists at BYU conducted extensive laboratory tests and found that the molten metal was primarily composed of iron ­ with slight traces of structural steel. From the physical and photographic evidence Jones concluded that Thermite, or a similar aluminothermic process, was used to slice the central core columns and bring down the twin towers.

Jones, along with 2 other physicists and a geologist at BYU, conducted Energy Dispersive Spectroscopy (EDS), X-ray Fluorescence (XRF) and Electron Microprobe analyses on the samples.

The previously molten metal samples were predominately iron, with very little chromium, Jones said, along with uncommon chemical elements in abundance such as fluorine and manganese. Aluminum and sulfur were also present, which he said would be expected from thermate reactions. Thermate is Thermite, which is powdered aluminum and ferrous oxide, with 2 percent sulfur added to the mixture to increase the steel-cutting effectiveness of the reaction.

"The results," Jones says in a presentation he recently gave at Idaho State University, "coupled with visual evidence at the scene such as the flowing yellow-hot liquid metal still red after falling about 500 feet, provide compelling evidence that Thermite reaction compounds (aluminothermics) were used, meaning Thermite was deliberately placed in both WTC Towers and WTC 7."

See: http://worldtradecentertruth.com/vol...Department.pdf

Jones' research papers are online at Journal of 911 Studies.

THE RADIO TRAP

On September 5, Doug Fabrizio, executive producer of RadioWest on the University of Utah's public radio station invited Jones to come on his one-hour program to discuss his 9/11 research.

Before Jones could even discuss his research, however, Fabrizio was aggressively quizzing him on the "Neo-Conservative motivation" for the attacks, and repeatedly pressed him to comment on a subject far outside his field and competence ­ to explain who within the government could have been involved in the attacks ­ if not 19 Arab hijackers with box cutters.

Because Jones is a physicist and is not engaged in the political background of "false flag" terrorism attacks, he reluctantly responded to Fabrizio's question by citing the author Webster Tarpley's analysis that individuals such as Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, who are linked to the "international banking cartel," have been named, by Tarpley, as possible suspects.

Jones was careful to say that these were not his ideas, but Tarpley's, and that these were possible suspects that Tarpley had named.
Jones is generally reluctant to discuss the political implications of his findings, and his comments about Wolfowitz and Perle on the radio program created quite a "buzz on campus," the Deseret Morning News reported.

After interviewing Jones for a brief 20 minutes, Fabrizio said goodbye to Jones and turned the remainder of the hour over to a discussion of conspiracy theories with two Jewish professors, a Robert Goldberg from the University of Utah and Gary Fine from Northwestern.

Within two days, the authorities at BYU apparently caved to organized Jewish pressure and put Jones on paid leave. Students who had already begun their fall physics courses with Jones will be taught by other faculty members for the rest of the semester as university administrators review his statements and research.

Photo: Christopher Bollyn and Professor Steven E. Jones discussing the molten metal seen cascading from the 81st floor of WTC 2 and found under the rubble of all three "collapsed" towers of the World Trade Center. The bag in front of Bollyn contains samples taken from the molten metal found at the WTC site. These samples are primarily molten iron, the end product of the Thermite reaction along with aluminum oxide and tremendous heat release.

"The data doesn't lie," Jones said. "I have to speak the truth the best I know it ­ as a scientist I feel the responsibility to speak out."







MainPage
Jeff Rense Program


This Site Served by TheHostPros

[Wonderblob]

How America
Is Propagandized
9-25-6


Notice the left column which features the Newsweek issues
for Europe, Asia, Latin America. The large red arrow and
text directs your attention to what we in the US get!

Thanks to Jim Houston for capturing and submitting this image

How America Is Propagandized

[Clarence]

That article implies that the metal used to build the towers was Iron not steel. It's a bit of info I've been looking for. Iron is molten at 2786* where I assume it to be some sort of steel which melts at around 2400*. Iron is way more flexible too.

This is fricken Volconvo. Why can't we get a BYU professor on here and ask some questions? shoot, any professor we could verify. No pressure. They would have much more than 3 min to explain themselves. pfft. We'd probably scare em away. LIke that supposed Republican aide or something y'all know who I'm talking about? ha! Seriously though. It'd be neato.

[webjedi]

Quote by: Clarence Why can't we get a BYU professor on here and ask some questions?

I already asked some questions nobody here could answer. A whole lot of them.

Quote by: WebJedi In fact, why completely demolish the WTC? Weren't the passengers on the planes and the deaths they caused in the building enough of a casus belli? Why both buildings? Wouldn't 2 WTC have been enough? Why destroy 7 WTC? And why not destroy 3, 4, 5, 6 WTC? What about the Pentagon? Why didn't anyone find explosives at the Pentagon or any other building in Washington? For that matter, who do you think hijacked the planes? CIA agents? What was it they were willing to die for? So that we could go to war with Iraq??? Please, spare me.

You don't need a Ph.D. in physics from MIT to debunk these conspiracy theories - just common sense. Read my whole post - none of these conspiracy junkies could answer those questions.

The reason they think they are right is that they have already reached their conclusion and are in search of the premise. If you try to come to an accurate conclusion that way it is impossible because anything that is the slightest bit debatable becomes a validation of your suspicions. When you look at the problem from the practical point of view it becomes obvious that the theory only works backwards, but not if you ask them to explain all the factors involved.

You don't need to be a genius to realize that if this was a trick, the sheer scale of it would be so risky that you would get caught it would be incredibly stupid to try - and anyone who could do something like this and cover it up would have to be smarter than that. Any goal you had other than the stated goal of the terrorists - to cause as much damage as possible - would be highly compromised by such a complex plan, and could be achieved much more easily any number of ways.

You can argue about the steel or the explosives or this or that minute detail. Look at the whole picture: does it make any sense NOT to do this an easier way - say a truck bomb or train bomb or better yet - a chemical attack. If you had the kind of access it would take to set all those demolition charges, drill the steel, etc. you could much more easily put sarin, mustard gas, VX, - hell, chloramine is just bleach + ammonia, and if you had that much access all you'd need to do is send it through the air ducts.

I could come up with thousands of easier attacks that would not require suicide hijackers, that would be much more likely to be successful, and would create just as much panic.

This is so dumb.

Quote by: Wonderblob Notice the left column which features the Newsweek issues for Europe, Asia, Latin America.

And what they print in Europe, Asia, and Latin America is perfectly balanced? Right.:rolleyes:

They are warmongering, as the media does. No explosions, no violence, no death - no sales.

::

[PatrickHenry]

webjedi is such a moron.

[webjedi]

Quote by: PH webjedi is such a moron.

Yeah, I'm sure everyone can see that I have the I.Q. of a houseplant.

Grow up.

. . .

[Jason]

Alright, this "moron" business is getting thrown around a lot. No more name calling. We'll be reviewing this thread.

DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD TO THE PRECEDING MESSAGE. Please contact a member of the staff privately if you have any questions.

[Compugasm]

Quote by: webjedi I could come up with thousands of easier attacks that would not require suicide hijackers, that would be much more likely to be successful, and would create just as much panic.

I bet you could create more. With the WTC attack, you could stay away from tall buildings. Small attacks that "could happen anywhere" really would effect everyone, because they'd be impossible to avoid.

[Clarence]

Quote by: Compugasm I bet you could create more. With the WTC attack, you could stay away from tall buildings. Small attacks that "could happen anywhere" really would effect everyone, because they'd be impossible to avoid.

It's almost time for that, too.

[PatrickHenry]

The OKC attack didn't bring the desired results for the emerging Police/Security State.

9/11 resulted in a satisfying response from the public, similar to Vicchio's call for nukes for NY and DC.

QED that small attacks are ineffective in motivating public support for the WoT, aka The War on Freedom. You think terrorists have a conscience? Culling the herd is no more problematic for them than shearing the sheep.

[webjedi]

Quote by: PH The OKC attack didn't bring the desired results for the emerging Police/Security State.

The OK City bombing had the same result:

From Wikipedia The Chicago Tribune reported that the CIA spokesman had acknowledged on the record that the agency is involved in the search. There is a description that the car bombs that were used at the Murrah building are favored by Islamic fundamentalists. It discusses in Exhibit B that Oklahoma City has an Islamic Center and the state is home to about 5,000 Muslims. It goes on to say that a television documentary linked Oklahoma City to an Islamic fundamentalist network operating out of New Jersey, Chicago and Texas. Mr. Steven Emerson, a terrorism expert and executive producer of "Jihad in America" said -- and I don't think there is any question Mr. Emerson is an expert on terrorism -- that Oklahoma City has been the venue for several Islamic conventions, including one in 1992 where 6,000 people cheered calls for killing of Jews and infidels. This meeting, incidentaly, took place four blocks from the Murrah building.

People were ready to attack any Muslim country or group that had anything to do with it. Of course, Clinton was President so we probably wouldn't have done all that much about it anyway, but the American public were ready for war.

* * * * *

Besides that, the OK City Bombing would pale in comparison to planting a fuel bomb in a high school like the one I went to - 2,000 students, made of cinderblock (doubled as a bomb shelter). A fuel bomb would suck all the air out of everyone's lungs immediately suffocating them to death - that is those who didn't die in the fireball. BOOM! 2,000 high-school kids dead - more than enough for war.

::

Or how about placing a bomb on every train track in the Northeast corridor and detonating them on schedule with the trains (or possibly kinetically). Thousands dead - more than enough for war.

If you had inside access why not initiate a meltdown at a nuclear facility? What about an attack on the TVA? If you had insider access you could destroy or disrupt hundreds of dams, powerplants, water reseviors, and infrastructure.

I could go on, but you get the point. All of these would have been easier to do, for someone with insider access, than blowing up the WTC. The Muslims didn't have insider access, they couldn't get missiles or fuel bombs or chemical agents. So they used the most lethal weapon available - passenger jets full or people and fuel.

I doubt they knew the buildings would come down; that was a nice bonus. But they certainly knew they would create serious havoc and cause a lot of deaths. As a matter of fact they probably over estimated the deaths b/c there were ~50,000 people in and out of the WTC every day.

Regardless, they intended to scare us into submission. They miscalculated. And for those who wish to apologize for them, defend or excuse their actions, cover up for them, or help them in any way should probably take a lesson from that.

::

[PatrickHenry]

WTC 7 is the smoking gun.