Trade center demolition

[shrike]

I wonder what Hugo Chavez thinks of all this?

Nice giving link in Spanish that we can't understand anyway why we should care what some communist dictator thinks?

[brien]

Quote by: Critter I don't have much to add, except to say that I'm SO glad to see that more and more people are getting a whiff of the shady stuff that's going on. Now, of course I don't know all the details, and I'm not afraid to say there's a lot I don't understand, but the fact that all this is coming out, and people are realizing that something is horribly wrong with the world, is a great comfort.

Critter; I share your curiosity but I draw the line when there is no hard evidence, only conjecture and speculation. There isn't one person who has come forward to verify this conspiracy in five years. It is my speculation that there probably never will be a credible and verifiable conspirator. That tells me a world of information. People are taking so called experts, and other technical people's opinion, to support their view of this suppossed conspiracy. It is rather like people of religious faith. They have no evidence but are convinced their religion is the true religion and all others are false. All they have is faith in their experts, so called experts, and other technical data which fuels their speculation. It is no different than a "true believer" in any religion. I can respect them for their beliefs, but as for evidence of what they believe in is reality, this is a different story. It is rather like being in agreement that Jesus Christ was crucified but then making the leap of faith that he was indeed the "son of God." Fine for some to believe this but there is no evidence this is true.

On the other hand there are eyewitness accounts of an airliner crashing directly into the Pentagon. I witnessed the at least one jet crashing into the second tower. We have voice recordings of Arab speaking people bringing down the United flight in Shanksville Pa. These "conspirators" were on the government payroll???? :rolleyes:

I agree also there is much I don't understand either, but I will not allow that to seduce me into unreal speculation like diesel fuel is non explosive.:rolleyes: I know better.

I will not allow to be seduced into thinking some covert team slipped into the twin towers and rigged it with explosvie charges right up to the 110th floor. This would take days to acomplish and it is absolutely foolish to think this could have gone undetected. I spent many, many days, in both towers. I spent many many noontimes lunching at the Market Bar and up in the Windows on the World. There was security throughout both towers and to think some clandestine covert team slipped into both towers to rig charges is absurd. There were surveillance cameras on every floor and in every service entrance, as well as in the garages below the towers. These are the only ones I was aware of there. I am certain there were many more I never saw.

These conspiracy ideas are merely speculation. There is no evidence and certainly not even one person who is willing to come forward to corroborate any single part of what would have to be a complicated, well coordinated and very, very large operation.

I am willing to stay tuned and listen to all of the speculation, but so far, I agree with those from Missouri, Show me and prove it to me, and most importantly, give just us one credible and verifiable conspirator.

[jose]

13 of September of 2006 - 7:05

(translation of Spanish story)
CARACAS (Reuters) - the American Government could have caused the attacks of the 11 of September 2001 in that country, according to a theory by the president of Venezuela, Hugo Chávez.

"the hypothesis that is getting stronger is it was the same imperial power, North American that planned and lead this terrible terrorist attack against its own people and citizens worldwide", Why? In order to justify the aggressions that were unleashed immediately on Afghanistan, on Iraq and the threats against all of us ", .

Chávez made reference to theories expressed by the journalist and Venezuelan humorist Carlos Sicily in a program transmitted in the evening by the state television network and said that these are defended "by scientists worldwide and architects of great fame".

"the hypothesis is not preposterous that he (Sicily)gives of which those towers were dynamited, that explosives were set in the towers
The commentary of Chávez could still more strain the relations between Caracas and Washington after United States Monday commemorated the fifth anniversary of the attacks with hijacked airplanes, that caused the death of around 3,000 people.

The responsibility of the attack was assumed be the group Al- Qaeda, and its leader Osama bin Laden.

"Still it is not clear what was the cause, who directed that terrible act that harvested the lives of thousands of people and which gave the excuse to the North American empire to attack with more viciousness and fury against the world",.

"THE TWIN TOWERS COULD NOT JUST FALL DOWN LIKE THAT"

The retired military man, hard critic of the foreign policy of the United States, put in doubt some of the official explanations offered by Washington on the attacks.

"That (the Twin Towers) cannot be fallen thus, it is impossible . and in the Pentagon supposedly an airplane crashed, but nobody ever obtained a single piece of that airplane",

[shrike]

Quote by: jose 13 of September of 2006 - 7:05 "That (the Twin Towers) cannot be fallen thus, it is impossible . and in the Pentagon supposedly an airplane crashed, but nobody ever obtained a single piece of that airplane",

Thats apparently a lie by Chavez

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Rumors of War (Hunt the Boeing!)

[jose]

jeesh shrike you complained you couldn´t read it in Spanish,so i translated it as best i can, i was just reporting Hugo Chavezs´ opinion
just as the ¨snopes¨ site is just the opinion of David Mikkelson

[shrike]

Quote by: jose jeesh shrike you complained you couldn´t read it in Spanish,so i translated it as best i can, i was just reporting Hugo Chavezs´ opinion just as the ¨snopes¨ site is just the opinion of David Mikkelson

I just commented on Chaves .I think i allowed to do that

[jose]

removed by me

[Jason]

Shrike, I think you accidentally quoted yourself from Sharia could come via democracy: Dutch minister
I have searched the forums and I don't believe Jose said that.

Jose, play nice.

Let's move on please.

[jose]

fine by me it was a genuine mistake

[brien]

Quote by: jose 13 of September of 2006 - 7:05 (translation of Spanish story) CARACAS (Reuters) - the American Government could have caused the attacks of the 11 of September 2001 in that country, according to a theory by the president of Venezuela, Hugo Chávez. "the hypothesis that is getting stronger is it was the same imperial power, North American that planned and lead this terrible terrorist attack against its own people and citizens worldwide", Why? In order to justify the aggressions that were unleashed immediately on Afghanistan, on Iraq and the threats against all of us ", . Chávez made reference to theories expressed by the journalist and Venezuelan humorist Carlos Sicily in a program transmitted in the evening by the state television network and said that these are defended "by scientists worldwide and architects of great fame". "the hypothesis is not preposterous that he (Sicily)gives of which those towers were dynamited, that explosives were set in the towers The commentary of Chávez could still more strain the relations between Caracas and Washington after United States Monday commemorated the fifth anniversary of the attacks with hijacked airplanes, that caused the death of around 3,000 people. The responsibility of the attack was assumed be the group Al- Qaeda, and its leader Osama bin Laden. "Still it is not clear what was the cause, who directed that terrible act that harvested the lives of thousands of people and which gave the excuse to the North American empire to attack with more viciousness and fury against the world",. "THE TWIN TOWERS COULD NOT JUST FALL DOWN LIKE THAT" The retired military man, hard critic of the foreign policy of the United States, put in doubt some of the official explanations offered by Washington on the attacks. "That (the Twin Towers) cannot be fallen thus, it is impossible . and in the Pentagon supposedly an airplane crashed, but nobody ever obtained a single piece of that airplane",

If Chavez wrote this gobbly gook, then he has been sniffing his own CITGO oil and gasoline too much.


There are EYEWITNESSES that saw the plane fly right into the Pentagon.

Links:

9/11 Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts

From, this link:Mike Walter

USA Today's Mike Walter was driving near the Pentagon when he saw an American Airlines jet fly directly into the country's military nerve center. [544kB WAV download]

Link:Tribute to the Victims of the September 11

From the link:

Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled. As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110). As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon. There was a large explosion noise and the low frequency sound echo that comes with this type of sound. Associated with that was the increase in air pressure, momentarily, like a small gust of wind. For those formerly in the military, it sounded like a 2000lb bomb going off roughly ½ mile in front of you. At once there was a huge cloud of black smoke that rose several hundred feet up. Elapsed time from hearing the initial noise to when I saw the impact flash was between 12 and 15 seconds.


If Chavez is getting behind this theory, it only shows he is irresponsible as a leader to place credibility in theories and not facts as demonstrated above.

[webjedi]

Chavez is stirring up resentment against us because it serves his domestic agenda. He is riding the back of a tiger and it is going to turn around and bite him sooner or later.

[Clarence]

I couldn't understand why people would say that planes didn't fly into the towers and pentagon. I mean, I was watching when the second one hit...Saying that since planes were used means that no inside job exists is like saying that all who opposed invading Iraq must think Saddam was a hero.

Everyone has thier 9/11 story. Mine started the night before. I was 20 and working my apprenticeship in Dayton. I had voted for Bush in 2000 but I really didn't pay attention to current politics. I lived in an efficiency 50 yards from the fence at Wright Patt airforce base. All night planes (fighters) warmed up, taxied and took off. I was accustomed to traffic in the middle of the night but damn. My boss Tina took one look at me when I arrived to at 8am. I tried to tell her. F-in planes! 'sure' she said. I stumbled over to the prep counter and started to cut some shit up. About an hour later, the flamin african Raul from banquets comes in and is spitting about some plane in the tower, runs out. The restaurant I worked in was on the top floor of the Crowne Plaza, surrounded by windows. That was the claim to fame, see? Me an Tina run out there looking around and we're like whatever. We're just getting back to it when Nasih (sp? sounds like Naazee) the food and beverage manager from Lebanon comes in and very seriously clarified what was happening.So we went to the bar and started watching the tv and were watching when the second plane hit and when the first tower fell. The news station were announcing it was OBL before the first tower even fell. There were detailed profiles of him being shown. nevermind, it was the air traffic that made me doubt the gov't claims that we had no idea this was coming. Do any of my fellow skeptics have any theories why the extreme runway traffic at Wright Patt late sept 10 early sept 11? This was the beginning of my journey. I didn't start out thinking about inside job and I don't know what happened I just feel like a more transperent, independent investigation needs be. But guess what? tooo late. just for fun...

Why did the evidence from the largest crime in United States history get destroyed so quickly? It sure would be nice to find out about thermite.

NYFD on gag order?

Why is OBL not FBI's most wanted?

Who has benefitted from this crime? looking for motive

What evidence do we have that PNAC and OBL are enemies?

How can rational people make posts comparing Right wing strategy to H.Goering's and still be comfortable with this blurry and convenient 'official story' of 9/11?

But I am fascinated with the idea of "The Official Handbook of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy". Rule 1: Divide America. Anyone who opposes the War in Iraq obviously thinks Saddam Hussein was a great guy. The idea that such a war was a bad idea that would do great harm to our country simply isn't possible. Rule 2: Be afraid, be very afraid. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism

that's taken from another thread
Winning the War in Iraq

Did I misunderstand Sonart? you've heard of the reichstag fire and it's effect on the German people? I'm not saying we're dealing with Nazis, specifically, and neither are you.

It just seems like there's a bit if denial because this couldn't have happened in america. I'm suprised how many people don't realize what just happened here. I hope i'm wrong. wouldn't be the first time.

[Wonderblob]

Quote by: brien Well I own a trucking company and use diesel feul all of the time as well. Why does the FHA require flamable placards for its transportation? Look up the HM CODE It is listed as Fuel oil Class 3 Combustible So to say it is not explosive is in direct contradiction to the FHA Safety Regs. So what you wrote is simply untrue. You wrote:[QUOTE I also know quite a bit about diesel. Its number one asset is that it is not explosive.]

Apparently you don't know enough according to the FHA.

You wrote:

Indisputable? By whom??

You wrote:

[ I can also promise you that the fuel was not stored any where near the major structural components of the building. /QUOTE] Says who, you? You, who also says diesel fuel isn't combustible?? Rudy Guiliani begs to differ with you. I heard him state catagorically that all of the twin towers fuel was stored in Bldg # 7 Sorry wonderblob, you facts don't stand up to the test of reliability.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
com·bus·tion (kəm-bŭs'chən)
n.
The process of burning.
A chemical change, especially oxidation, accompanied by the production of heat and light.

ex·plo·sive (ĭk-splō'sĭv)
adj.
Relating to or having the nature of an explosion.
Tending to explode.

Do you see the difference now?

Brien
Maybe that is why you drive a truck.

[brien]

Quote by: Wonderblob Apparently you don't know enough according to the FHA. You wrote: Indisputable? By whom?? You wrote: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- com·bus·tion (kəm-bŭs'chən) n. The process of burning. A chemical change, especially oxidation, accompanied by the production of heat and light. ex·plo·sive (ĭk-splō'sĭv) adj. Relating to or having the nature of an explosion. Tending to explode. Do you see the difference now? Brien Maybe that is why you drive a truck.

You diatribe above is just plain ignorant of the facts. Here are facts.


What don't you understand about a Class 3 Explosive as rated by the Federal Highway Administration? Look it up in The HM Compliance Handbook. You can define an explosive any way you wish but the FHA KNOWS diesel fuel is an explosive and classifies it as such. Look it up. Better yet, try transporting it without the necessary placards and proper bills of lading wit its classification listed.

What don't you understand about a Class 3 Explosive as rated by the Federal Highway Administration? Perhaps you refuse to understand what the FHA Safety Regulations stipulate. So be it. You know more than the experts.:rolleyes:

Maybe that is why you drive a truck.[/

You implication that truck drivers are stupid make you look stupid sir.
I will put my trust in a "stupid truck driver" any day of the week and match any of my drivers against your wits as well. Elitist people like yourself only "look down" upon people who drive trucks to make themselves feel superior. Very transparent of you and it does out you as an elitist..

In fact, for the record, I own the company.

[webjedi]

Quote by: Wonderblob Maybe that is why you drive a truck.

That wasn't cool. There is nothing wrong with driving a truck and a lot of truckers make a lot of money. Not to mention they have a much more exciting life then sitting in a cube all day. More to the point, it's not like it used to be, there is a lot more technology and regulations involved. In any case, the fact that someone drives a truck is not an indication that he is dumb any more than the fact that someone is sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day an indication that he is intelligent.

[Clarence]

yeah, I'm thinking about being a trucker myself. So, can diesel explode? burn, sure. explode?

[jose]

yes diesel can explode, under certain conditions, it needs to be heated under pressure
for example inside a diesel engine

[Clarence]

Quote by: jose yes diesel can explode, under certain conditions, it needs to be heated under pressure for example inside a diesel engine

yeah, but that's pressure. c'mon my vw has close to 300lbs compression

[Wonderblob]

You are right webjedi, it wasn’t cool. I did send him an apology. I just chalked it up to stupidity on my part.
Back to the point of the argument, cannot one replace the diesel oil in their truck with cooking oil and keep on trucking.
That’s right diesel is only slightly more volatile than the Wesson oil in your kitchen cabinet.
You strike a match put it in a tank of diesel and the match goes out it must be atomized or artificially excited (in other words it needs a wick and heat) before it will even burn. But that is still not nearly enough to make it explode. For that it must be atomized into air that has been compressed to the point that it is hot as fire over 1000 PSI. That is a difficult situation to achieve.
Now it is possible to achieve combustible vapors by boiling diesel fuel for along time in an enclosed environment and then introducing fire. I don't see how that is possible in a building.
By the way I read where the insurance company that insured building 7 sued the building administrators because fuel is not under any circumstances supposed to be stored in the building. The judge dismissed the lawsuit.
The evidence of a cover-up is just too overwhelming to me.

[Ghumanto]

I just got very amused by Shrike's comment.
Someone like him posted earlier in another thread about the Palestinians dancing and celebrating after 9/11 ( which later proved to be 3 years old video sinfully collaged by CNN to divert peoples mind ).
So, this time those 5 guys were innocent for celebrating the 9/11!!! Hmm ! Gotta learn more about celebration !!