9/11 -- The Other View

[zynner]

A lot of you dismiss any ideas about 9/11 that are not officially sanctioned by the US government. Yet, we now know that the US government has been involved in deceiving the American public to promote military agendas. The Gulf of Tonkin incident, which was used as the excuse to enter the Vietnam War was a lie by the Johnson administration. Bush lied about Iraq.

If you have refused to educate yourself about the claims of those who question the official version of 9/11, then you probably are not familiar with how all the dots would connect. I thought I’d lay out the argument.

(1) Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush (not George) and others created the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), which was/is an organization created to promote the idea that the US military should dominate the world in the post-cold war era. Many of these guys also went to school together, back in the day, at the University of Chicago, where Professor Strauss invented the idea of the “neo-conservative,” a fascist political ideology (“fascist” meaning: a system whereby corporations and government partner to rule over the people).

(2) A PNAC white paper is written called, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” which outlines the PNAC Doctrine of military might. In it, they acknowledge that these ideas will not go over well with the public and will likely take a long time to implement, unless there is a “catastrophic and catalyzing event, such as a new Pearl Harbor.” Incidentally, the University of Chicago gang included Stanley Hilton, who knew these guys, and now has sued them (he’s an attorney) and states that they often debated the idea of how to turn the US into a military dictatorship by way of a Pearl Harbor sort of event.

(3) Bush/Cheney take office in 2001. They already have plans to invade Afghanistan for the purpose of making sure a pipeline from Kazakhstan to Pakistan is completed -- something which the Taliban refused to allow, but which the Taliban was threatened that they would either accept it or blood would be shed. Incidentally, Gov. George Bush held meetings with members of the Taliban in Texas before he became President.

(4) Osama bin Laden was trained by the CIA in Afghanistan in the 1980’s to fight against the Soviets. Later, he was used by the US gov’t to recruit and train members for a special operation within the US. Also, in 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed, and the accused culprits were found to have mental retardation. It is believed by many that the FBI was involved in recruiting and training them. Don’t believe it? Take a look at the bumbling fools with so-called “terrorist links” arrested recently in Florida.

(5) Many world governments warned of an attack on New York and/or Washington DC coming “soon” in 2001. Lower level FBI and CIA agents warned superiors. An FBI agent tracking Moussaoi (the “20th Highjacker”) informed his chain of command not once or twice, but 70 different times that an attack was in the works. Yet, nothing was ever done. In fact, lower level agents were told to back off multiple such cases.

(6) San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown was warned to not fly on 9/11/01 -- by Condi Rice. Atty Gen. Ashcroft quit taking commercial flights just prior to 9/11. Many government officials were warned. An Israeli company was warned on the morning of 9/11 to evacuate their offices in the twin towers.

(7) Several days before 9/11, the twin towers had several days of power downs where companies had to send their employees home while “new cable” was installed. This had never happened before. On 9/6, the regular bomb-sniffing dogs that patrolled the area were removed. The head of the security company that was in charge of the twin towers was Marvin Bush, George’s brother.

(8) On the morning of 9/11/01, multiple “war games” were taking place within the US. Not just multiple war games, but THE LARGEST NUMBER of games EVER on one day -- one of them had been scheduled for October but was moved up to 9/11. In fact, at least one of those games was a simulated hijacking. Another was a small jet hitting an office building. These were simulations, not real world events. Included in the simulations were changes to air traffic controllers’ radar screens whereby fake blimps were inserted for planes that did not exist, as part of the exercises. This greatly confused the entire system, as several people asked if the various reports coming in were simulation or real world.

(9) President Bush was informed of the 2nd jet hitting the WTC and he had no reaction. The Secret Service did not whisk him away, concerned for his safety, knowing that an attack of some sort was underway. Meanwhile, VP Cheney was in a bunker where he was observed to be giving some sort of order regarding the an incoming aircraft.

(10) Both of the twin towers fell -- one in less than an hour and one in about an hour and a half. Several hours later, WTC building #7 also fell, although it was never hit by a plane and had only 2 small fires. No other steel buildings -- in world history -- have fallen from fire. All three buildings fell at nearly freefall speed (as fast as if there were nothing at all to impede their fall -- no even their own structures). The twins fell in about 10 seconds and #7 in just over 6 seconds. This is physically impossible if the official story is true.

(11) All 3 buildings show apparent signs of “squibs,” which are small discharges of debris shooting out from the sides. This is a tale tell sign of a controlled demolition. In addition, the FBI has now stated that the steel recovered had unexplained sulfur residue of some sort. Sulfur is added to the explosive thermite to produce “thermate,” a patented explosive designed to cut quickly through steel and burn and exceptionally high rates.

(12) The fires in all 3 buildings were not hot enough to bring down the buildings, and the jet impacts were not enough, either. But thermate explosives is. Plus, the buildings were reduced to powder, to the amazement of all who participated in the recovery. The buildings falling of their own weight would not produce enough energy for this to occur.

(13) Columbia University recorded seismic activity upon the 2 aircraft impacting the twin towers. It also recorded dramatically higher seismic levels just as the towers were collapsing -- the timeline suggests that large waves were produced just before the towers fell.

(14) Multiple eyewitnesses, including firemen (who are all under judicial gag orders now), stated that there were multiple explosions within the towers. Some people were physically thrown, in addition to hearing explosions and seeing flashes. Some felt intense heat waves.

(15) Although the aircraft created holes in the twin towers, there later were survivors waving FROM the holes, which means that the fires could not have been too intense at that time. Black smoke was coming out, indicating fires that were not intense. Firefighters reached the level of impact in the South Tower and radioed that the fires were almost out -- but these tapes were later confiscated and all involved were ordered to not talk about it (the firefighters who reached that level died).

(16) Building #7 was “pulled,” according to an interview of its owner, Larry Silverstein. “Pull” means a controlled demolition. However, there was no time to rig it on that day. The explosives must have already been in place. The building contained CIA and other government headquarters, as well as investigation files of the SEC. Building #7 is the “smoking gun” because what happened to it is impossible under the official story. The 9/11 Commission did not even mention it.

(17) There is little, if any, evidence that a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon. No videos have ever been release that show such an aircraft approaching, even though there are cameras all over the place. The FBI confiscated video of nearby private businesses within MINUTES of the crash -- without any court orders -- and have never released the footage.

(18) The FAA has destroyed some audio tapes from that day.

(19) NO hijackers were on ANY of the airline manifests.

(20) All planes are said to have had hijackers with box cutter knives (I always called it a “safety knife” -- who came up with the uniform word “box cutter?”) -- as well as one flight supposedly had a gun and one a bomb. Yet, all 19 are said to have passed airport security with no incidents.

(21) Atta, the supposed ringleader, apparently left luggage in his rental car at the airport with the names of the hijackers, yet some of the names were not accurate (some of the supposed hijackers later turned up alive around the world). Why would the ringleader not know the names of his associates?

(22) There is an allegation that Atta was wired $100,000 by Porter Goss, now head of the CIA. Was Atta (and the others) working for someone other than al Qaeda?

(23) ALL evidence from the WTC and the Pentagon, plus Pennsylvania, was DESTROYED by the government. Much of the steel was shipped off to China. It is illegal to destroy evidence of a crime scene.

(24) Despite all the screwups by so many people, NO ONE has ever been punished or even reprimanded. In fact, MANY HAVE BEEN PROMOTED.

(25) The events of 9/11 have been used as a pretense to pass the PATRIOT Act, which was obviously written long before that day. Just as the PNAC gang wanted, the US is now involved in massive warfare in the Middle East.

(con't.)

[zynner]

(con't.)



I put these points down for anybody to read and check for themselves if they realize that they have never really taken the question of the official story seriously. The fact is, anybody who checks it out will realize that the official story does not add up.

Today, we find that the 9/11 Commission itself suspected that some in the government lied under oath and they debated referring charges to the Justice Department.

Anybody who reads this post with the idea that there is no possibility that Bush/Cheney could be involved as criminals, I am not interested in debating.

I bring up the topic for those who are interested in learning more. Maybe we will find out that the official story is mostly true (it is impossible to be completely true).

Maybe not.

~ zynner

[rez]

Alittle after 9/11 there was an anthrax scare too!

Sounds like if you find the right actors, you can pitch a box office film. What happened after the anthrax? How should we end this box office hit?

[The Second Law]

For what it's worth, a lot of your points are addressed here.

As for your political conspiracy stuff, well, I don't have enough tinfoil here out of which I could make a hat, so I'll keep from questioning the government for right now, since I don't want my thoughts read.

--Second

[PatrickHenry]

Point 22. Porter Goss and Bob Graham were having a breakfast meeting on the morning of 9/11 as the attacks were underway. Who was their breakfast partner? Pakistani ISI chief Mahmoud Ahmad -- the same Ahmad who directly funded the Taliban and worked directly with Osama bin Laden.

It was Ahmad who arranged the transfer of $100,000 to alleged hijacker Mohammed Atta. This transfer was arranged in a top-secret conference room in the U.S. Capitol. The money passed through none other than Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, the Pakistani intelligence agent and British "terrorist" and Afghanistan terror-camp administrator who reportedly killed Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. (The WSJ was the only major U.S. news organization pursuing the Ahmed-Sheikh-Atta connections, and Pearl was working on that very story when he was set up and kidnapped in Pakistan.) Curiously enough, there is not a single mention of Goss and Graham's breakfast with Ahmad in the 868-page investigation chaired by ... Goss and Graham. And while Goss was fiercely against any investigation into the 9/11 attacks, once the investigation was in danger of becoming a reality, the lifelong spy Goss conveniently became the co-chairman of the Joint 9/11 Intelligence Inquiry ... with none other than Bob Graham.

http://www.sploid.com/news/2006/05/fall_of_an_amer.php

My, my... so cozy...Funny how spooks work together to hoodwink the public. But it just COULDN'T be a conspiracy... Those never happen... :rolleyes:

Anyhow, I wished Goss away into the cornfield

[Scribbler1]

I don't buy into CT as a rule. However, my extreme distrust of the US government causes me to believe they CAN do that, and that's enough for me.

All it takes is ONE advisor to convince Bush the "Arab menace" is not just an imminent and genuine threat, but one which will obliterate our country if we don't get involved over there. If he buys that it is just one more step to "kill a thousand to save millions" territory.
In this scenario the President would be an unwitting dupe, where his handlers manipulate his patriotism to make this a reasonable and sincere move. Easy to do if you have little knowledge of the outside world. I certainly don't see this guy as a "mastermind" of any kind.

I don't necessarily believe that, but I can NEVER discount it.

[PatrickHenry]

Ah, yes, the Miscellaneous Forum!! Any alternative theories always end up here!

Read What David Ray Griffin has to say:
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?c...articleId=2393

In this essay, I offer a Christian critique of the American empire in light of 9/11, and of 9/11 in light of the American empire. Such a critique, of course, presupposes a discussion of 9/11 itself, especially the question of who was responsible for the attacks. The official theory is that the attacks were planned and carried out entirely by Arab Muslims. The main alternative theory is that 9/11 was a "false flag" operation, orchestrated by forces within the US government who made it appear to be the work of Arab Muslims.

The Legend of Osama bin Laden There are also many problems in the official story about Osama bin Laden. In June of 2001, when he was already America's "most wanted" criminal, bin Laden reportedly spent two weeks in the American Hospital in Dubai, where he was visited by the local CIA agent. Also, after 9/11, when America was supposedly trying to get bin Laden "dead or alive," the U.S. military evidently allowed him to escape on at least four occasions, the last one being the "battle of Tora Bora," which the London Telegraph labeled "a grand charade." Moreover, although the Bush administration promised that Secretary of State Colin Powell would provide a white paper with proof that the attacks had been planned by bin Laden, this paper was never produced. And although the Taliban said that it would hand bin Laden over if the United States presented evidence of his involvement in 9/11, the Bush administration refused. Finally, although this administration claims that bin Laden admitted responsibility for the attacks in a video allegedly found in Afghanistan, the man in this video has darker skin, fuller cheeks, and a broader nose than the Osama bin Laden of all the other videos. We again seem to have planted evidence. Indeed, within the 9/11 truth movement, this video is known as "the fake bin Laden video."

[Clarence]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060806/...huBHNlYwNtdHM-

looks like we are becoming a threat. Check out the spin

Five years after the terrorist attacks, a community that believes widely discredited ideas about what happened on Sept. 11, 2001, persists and even thrives. Members trade their ideas on the Internet and in self-published papers and in books. About 500 of them attended a recent conference in Chicago. The movement claims to be drawing fresh energy and credibility from a recently formed group called Scholars for 9/11 Truth. The organization says publicity over Barrett's case has helped boost membership to about 75 academics. They are a tiny minority of the 1 million part- and full-time faculty nationwide, and some have no university affiliation. Most aren't experts in relevant fields. But some are well educated, with degrees from elite universities such as Princeton and Stanford and jobs at schools including Rice, Indiana and the University of Texas.

stinks. I see a number of things wrong with this but the whole article could have been considered helpful if the following qoute was closer to the top

Members of the group don't consider themselves extremists. They simply believe the government's investigation was inadequate, and maintain that questioning widely held assumptions has been part of the job of scholars for centuries.

that's the way the campaign should be handled. go from there. Please, America. look closer.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Clarence that's the way the campaign should be handled. go from there. Please, America. look closer.

And what happens if America finds out its leaders deliberately fabricated a terrorist attack and killed all those people? Has anyone thought of the damage such a revelation may cause to our system of government?

I want this government to be fixed, and fixed properly. I dare say if everyone knew the government was behind 9/11 there would be a loud outcry for this system to be abandoned INSTEAD of repaired and if that should happen all it takes is one charismatic psycho to put us in a dictatorship.

[Clarence]

Quote by: Scribbler1 And what happens if America finds out its leaders deliberately fabricated a terrorist attack and killed all those people? Has anyone thought of the damage such a revelation may cause to our system of government? I want this government to be fixed, and fixed properly. I dare say if everyone knew the government was behind 9/11 there would be a loud outcry for this system to be abandoned INSTEAD of repaired and if that should happen all it takes is one charismatic psycho to put us in a dictatorship.

all this true. I guess there would have to be a simultaneous movement to restore, not start from scratch. I'm sure there are a lot of things we can learn from this hijacking of our system that would help us prevent future problems, to some degree. Alot of people have memories of happy lives in a democratic system. That is on our side. The cool thing about our gov't is it is what we make it. The bad thing is it is what we make it. I worry that people will not feel the urgency of the situation until it's too late. I hope that good people are getting a little angry and are moving to meet their callings. I hope that people who've unwittingly supported this regime (and others) will swallow thier pride and try to be part of the solution. I hope that we can recognize the good ones and get them into office. soon

This upcoming election is big. What will we do if it turns out to be the nail in the coffin? I really wish that we could get a better picture of our candidates and with todays tech. why shouldn't we be able to?

I see a few scenerios in the upcoming election

A) Through election fraud more seats are gained by reds or at least maintained control. Polls in MSM could convice a lot of people that there is still a lot of support for the neo-cons. The ones who smell fish remain apathetic and their silent approval marks the end of life as we've known it here in the U.S. Also, sympathetic blues are elected or re-elected only. Remember, the charade must continue even when it reaches maximum phony. The suspended gavel (PATRIOT act and other questionable legislation) falls on all of the outspoken dissenters in the name of the War of Terror. The criminal racquet reaches an insurmountable peak and no other option will remain besides revolution which is quelled by technology and fear.

B) blues and independents gain just enough seats to create gridlock in the house and senate. the current executive and judiciary branchs become visibly more of a team in hopes of salvaging the the agenda. Terrorists attacks in the U.S increase and a sort of hostage situation emerges. 9/11 and Iraq are brought to the forefront and many decent representatives are hamstrung by their voting records. Good people are hamstrung with religious faith. Election 'reform' becomes one of the hottest topics with neither side interested in fairness. The fresh faces try to make waves or submit to the current power players. The middle ground continues to dissolve and tensions run extremely high. Americans lose more faith in their system. World powers start poking holes in our delicate structure in hopes of the whole thing crumbling. We go into the 2008 elections with few good options.

C) concerned citizens rise together to register and educate the voters. Networks see the profit in truth and assist with the propaganda problems. Journalism with integrity makes a comeback. We elect the best representatives possible from all parties and they go to the job ready to fix what's broken. Partisan ideology is cast aside in disgust and the needs of the people of this country are put into focus. the criminals of this administration are exposed. One or two take the fall while most slither away to return another generation with a more foolproof plan. Americans accept this and get to work on repairing ourselves. All legislation is examined and unconstitutional items are repealed and loopholed legislation is amended. Corporations get a spanking. People look back at the first six years of this millenium and realize that education is vital. A sense of unity emerges between progressive movements. The voting sytem gets a huge overhaul with accuracy in mind. The result is near flawless and highly resistant to tampering. The reformed procedures are set in stone and regarded with the same ferver as the constitution itself. Foreign policy becomes centered on compromise and diplomacy. We ask for forgiveness as we forgive. Regretfully, our mess in the ME is put on the backburner and our efforts are mainly humanitarian aid. Our soldiers begin to return and are put to work rebuilding the gulf region and fortifying our emergency systems. America gets all corny and makes the best of our situation for future generations. History regards 2000-2008 as "the close call" and future generations live under the impression that it could happen to them if they don't remain vigilant. The good vibes invigorate the nation and we remain the worlds shinning example for democracy.

Is this off topic?

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: Scribbler1 And what happens if America finds out its leaders deliberately fabricated a terrorist attack and killed all those people? Has anyone thought of the damage such a revelation may cause to our system of government? I want this government to be fixed, and fixed properly. I dare say if everyone knew the government was behind 9/11 there would be a loud outcry for this system to be abandoned INSTEAD of repaired and if that should happen all it takes is one charismatic psycho to put us in a dictatorship.

Let's say you're entirely right for a minute and it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the US is behind 9/11.

What makes you think in a nation as apathetic as this that it would really change anything at all? Further if people realize the nation is powerful enough to pull something like this off, what's going to make them say "Gee, the government is powerful enough to not only kill off all these people but to make us believe they weren't responsible, so hey, let's stand up and make our voices heard to a group that arbitrarily has killed off 3,000 of it's citizens and hundreds of thousands more elsewhere in the pursuit of their own goals!"

The last part of that was done with a sarcastic tone but I'm very serious about the point.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 Let's say you're entirely right for a minute and it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the US is behind 9/11. What makes you think in a nation as apathetic as this that it would really change anything at all?

Even the most apathetic people have their breaking point and I believe that would be just the thing to make them wake up. Unfortunately, I believe it would also turn the majority into a mob, blaming everything on "the government" and demanding EVERYBODY'S head on a pike. Then, some Saddam-type will come slithering out from under a rock and promise the sheep he will be their Pied Piper of Washington and rid them of the ENTIRE bad old government. Of course, the grateful masses will be more than happy to allow their savior to lead them into the light.
History proves this can happen again and again and if the American people react to proof the Bush administration did this it will be a tipping point they can't recover from.

You think they're too complacent, I think they're too stupid to do anything BUT throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Further if people realize the nation is powerful enough to pull something like this off, what's going to make them say "Gee, the government is powerful enough to not only kill off all these people but to make us believe they weren't responsible, so hey, let's stand up and make our voices heard to a group that arbitrarily has killed off 3,000 of it's citizens and hundreds of thousands more elsewhere in the pursuit of their own goals!"

If that happens we can let Osborn out of his cage.