Does Europe have the right to criticise?

[castille]

Does Europe have any right to criticise the US wars on Afghanistan and Iraq?

Of the major critics:

France - invaded and destroyed the cultures of native Americans. Divided Africa (partially responsible for ethnic conflict in Africa due to poor border decisions). Despite a so-called "revolution", France continued to terrorize the world - invasion of IndoChina (which also held blame for the Vietnam War), invasion of China. France has never paid any compensation for their imperialist activities.

Russia - invasion of Mongolia. Enslaved Eastern Europe behind the Iron Curtain. Soviet tanks went to crush a Hungarian protest. Tanks also went to kill Czechs and Poles. Soviet troops raped and murdered millions of innocent civilians in 1944 and 1945. Supported terrorism across the world, sent troops on a much more illegal invasion of Afghanistan in 79, biggest buyer of Iraqi oil from Saddam in exchange for T-55 tanks. Have not paid compensation either.

Spain (only criticised the war recently) - Well where can I begin? Destruction of the ENTIRE Aztec and Inca cultures, massacre of thousands of native Americans, brutal enslavement of native Indians, invasion of Phillipines, mass execution of North Africans, and the extermination of most native Indian tribes. Any compensation? Well how do you compensate for wiping out entire cultures?

I suppose Britain isn't criticising the US....but the anti-war British need to remember that Britain was once the grand imperialist of the world. Selling drugs to countries (you can't criticise the pharmacies if your nation enforced a drug-selling policy), stealing their artifacts, destroying cultures, etc etc.


So the European nations who are such humanitarians....have they paid compensation for their glorious destruction and enslavement of the world yet? Why is the kettle calling the pot black then?

[Impenitent]

that is what socialists do

[tusaki]

Originally posted by castille, Why is the kettle calling the pot black then?

So you admit the pot is black?

But in all seriousness, everyone has a right to criticize another if they believe what the other is doing is wrong. If the torturer tells the rapist to stop doing that, is he wrong? If France or Germany or whoever is going to do something in the future which America considers bad, can they say: "hey, you can't criticize us! you were the one with Iraq and Afghanistan!"? Past actions should not and do not invalidate the criticism itself.

[Mia]

The British against the war in Iraq had nothing to do with past British actions. So how is that relevant?

Not to mention, you need to make a distinction between the governing and the governed.

British government was for the war but the people mostly were not. Spanish government was for the war, but the vast majority of the people were not. The NEW government is NOT for it.

Is it his fault the previous guy was? And what Spanish government did before he was born?

[Suburbanite]

For those same reasons America couldn't critique itself.

[castille]

I'm not saying Europe shouldn't criticise the US.

I'm saying Europe needs to repay the trillions of dollars worth of damage they've done to the world first.


If a rapist criticise other rapists while raping some kids, would you take him seriously?

[Suburbanite]

I can't say with conviction I take anyone seriously, so I'll have to agree with that.

[tusaki]

Originally posted by castille,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (castille,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'm not saying Europe shouldn't criticize the US. I'm saying Europe needs to repay the trillions of dollars worth of damage they've done to the world first.[/b]

Sure, if you now would just come up with an exact figure and a declaration of lost income, I would be happy to pay. What was your account number again? Or to link it to another thread: when will the Americans pay for slavery? when will M'buktu of middle-Africa west pay to Z'mamba of middle-Africa east for 'past damages'? Should the Taiwanese pay the Chinese? or the other way around? Egyptian slaves anyone?

<!--QuoteBegin-castille,
If a rapist criticize other rapists while raping some kids, would you take him seriously?[/quote]

Will you hold it against a person if his grandfather did something bad? If you argue this way, you will not take anyone seriously, including yourself.

[castille]

Sure, if you now would just come up with an exact figure and a declaration of lost income, I would be happy to pay.

I don't need to come up with an exact income. Europe just has to pay enough money to fix up EVERY nation they have harmed in the past. But if you want to send me some money by PalPay, I'd be happy to accept.

when will the Americans pay for slavery?

What do you think affirmative action is for? At least the Americans DO something....all the Europeans do is bitch about North African refugees.

when will M'buktu of middle-Africa west pay to Z'mamba of middle-Africa east for 'past damages'?

When the British and French stop running away from their problems. As the cowardly soldiers did in 1994, Rwanda.

Should the Taiwanese pay the Chinese?

No, Europe should be the one paying China. How about fixing up China's Summer Palace, burnt down by the French for their private pleasure? Or repairing the damage of selling opium by military force by the British? Or what about repaying every cent looted from the Forbidden Palace after the Boxer Rebellion?

Will you hold it against a person if his grandfather did something bad? If you argue this way, you will not take anyone seriously, including yourself.

By law, if your grandfather robs the bank, you are not legally allowed to use that money. You have to return the money.

Europe stole billions of dollars in wealth from the world - therefor, it would be right for them to return that wealth, including inflation.

[Mia]

Don't forget we owe the Native Americans.

BTW, I have a US flag next to my name. So if I say we, everyone knows I mean the US and it is not being Ameri-centered. I'm aware and happy that many people from other countries are here and this is not denigrating to anyone.

[RightThinker]

They have the right to criticise while we have the right to ignore them and eat our "Freedom" Fries all to ourselves.

[Pooeypants]

And that ends this flame baiting thread.

[BaconButty]

Originally posted by castille, I don't need to come up with an exact income. Europe just has to pay enough money to fix up EVERY nation they have harmed in the past. But if you want to send me some money by PalPay, I'd be happy to accept. What do you think affirmative action is for? At least the Americans DO something....all the Europeans do is bitch about North African refugees. When the British and French stop running away from their problems. As the cowardly soldiers did in 1994, Rwanda. No, Europe should be the one paying China. How about fixing up China's Summer Palace, burnt down by the French for their private pleasure? Or repairing the damage of selling opium by military force by the British? Or what about repaying every cent looted from the Forbidden Palace after the Boxer Rebellion? By law, if your grandfather robs the bank, you are not legally allowed to use that money. You have to return the money. Europe stole billions of dollars in wealth from the world - therefor, it would be right for them to return that wealth, including inflation.

In that caese, EVERY country should pay something, including the US. Maybe the Italians should pay compensation to the countries that were in the Roman Empire. The Australians should pay compensation to the Aborigines. The Americans should pay compensation to the Native Indians and to the rest of the world that they have ruined.

[Vee]

I'm sure the US has done some good things but the europeans I've spoken too say the same thing "why does america want to be the world's cop?"

[bishop]

if you say that europe has no right to speak, then how are we so different? the atrocities committed against the natives, the slave trade, south america (pinochet?), vietnam, cambodia, south korea, apartheid in south africa, supporting saddam and giving him wmd, nuking japan (which i believe was the best decision at the time)...

we aren't exactly angels either - especially if you use the absence of morality as a measuring stick. all too often, we create threats that we later end up warring against.. examples: bin laden, taliban, saddam, north korea.


europe has every right to say what it wants. we have every right to agree/disagree.

[G. Adams]

The actions of long dead Europeans does not negate the legitimate criticisms of todays Europeans.

[m5lange1]

Everyone has the right to criticise!!!


Otherwise Volconvo would be a blank page!!!!!!!

[Suburbanite]

Originally posted by castille, Does Europe have any right to criticise the US wars on Afghanistan and Iraq? Of the major critics: France - invaded and destroyed the cultures of native Americans. Divided Africa (partially responsible for ethnic conflict in Africa due to poor border decisions). Despite a so-called "revolution", France continued to terrorize the world - invasion of IndoChina (which also held blame for the Vietnam War), invasion of China. France has never paid any compensation for their imperialist activities. Russia - invasion of Mongolia. Enslaved Eastern Europe behind the Iron Curtain. Soviet tanks went to crush a Hungarian protest. Tanks also went to kill Czechs and Poles. Soviet troops raped and murdered millions of innocent civilians in 1944 and 1945. Supported terrorism across the world, sent troops on a much more illegal invasion of Afghanistan in 79, biggest buyer of Iraqi oil from Saddam in exchange for T-55 tanks. Have not paid compensation either. Spain (only criticised the war recently) - Well where can I begin? Destruction of the ENTIRE Aztec and Inca cultures, massacre of thousands of native Americans, brutal enslavement of native Indians, invasion of Phillipines, mass execution of North Africans, and the extermination of most native Indian tribes. Any compensation? Well how do you compensate for wiping out entire cultures? I suppose Britain isn't criticising the US....but the anti-war British need to remember that Britain was once the grand imperialist of the world. Selling drugs to countries (you can't criticise the pharmacies if your nation enforced a drug-selling policy), stealing their artifacts, destroying cultures, etc etc. So the European nations who are such humanitarians....have they paid compensation for their glorious destruction and enslavement of the world yet? Why is the kettle calling the pot black then?

These things should be more current to be relevent

[Vee]

and are you blaming the governments or the people?