Jaw jaw jaw not war war war?

[Scribbler1]

What's with the "little kid" stuff, Bugs? You're not exactly the old wise man yourself.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: G. Adams Diplomacy and conflict are merely tools at the hands of the state. Alone they are neither good or bad, they only become so when we apply them to a particular context.

I like that answer best.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: rockchick-steph I know the topic is way too broad. I'm having a problem writing a debate and it's tomorrow! I used the wording of the motion. I don't think the war should have been started in the first place. After WW1 and the Treaty of Versailles, Hitler made his Army bigger than it was allowed to be and and the Army trained in areas they weren't meant to be in. If the rest of the world had been tougher on this it's much less likely that Germany would have invaded Poland which means it's less likely WW2 would have started! I live in Scotland and I'm in S2. That's Year 8 in English School years. I've been debating for nearly two years and I've already been in a league with only S5s and 6s. Other people from my year who've been debating for about the same amount of time as me have been in the NOSS (North of Scotland Schools) league (also with only S5s and 6s) and did really well. I could have been in that league but I had rehearsals on two out of the 3 debates in the first round. My Mum wanting me to change school because she doesn't think my school is very good but I wouldn't because no other schools in my area have a debating team as good as mine for S2s. Somehow I'm thinking it's not a phase.

Ahh, but if the Treaty of Versailles had not been so harsh on Germany (especially considering it was Austria-Hungary invading Serbia that started the damn thing), the conditions that allowed Hitler to flourish would not have been created. That treaty, fine piece of diplomacy that it was, would have had Germany paying reperations until almost the end of the 20th century?

More over, when you say "If the rest of the world had been tougher on this it's much less likely that Germany would have invaded Poland which means it's less likely WW2 would have started!" what do you mean? If the world had sanctions on Germany? It was the crippling poverty following the Wall Street Crash that made the German people desperate enough to vote for Hitler in the first place, if you make conditions worse, the people would likely have given further support to Hitler. So, if not sanctions, what? Saaayyyy....a military action? Then you have already started a war, and diplomacy has failed.

So what do you suggest should have been done, exempting military action, to deal with Germany?

Another thing...when you said Germany had it's army training in areas it shouldn't have been, I assume you mean when Hitler re-militarised the Rhineland? You do know that when Germany, during the pre-Hitler Weimar years, failed to keep up with the reperations laid out in the Versailles treaty, France sent troops into the Rhineland to pillage it? This was only possible because Germany had, under the terms of the Versailles treaty, left it unguarded. So do you see why, for those around the world at the time, they allowed Germany to re-militarise it's own borders?

World War II was inevitable in light of the conditions at the time, it not have mattered whether the Rhineland and Sudetanland were kept free, or Germany's army kept small. We would not have kept Germany under our boots for eternity, and the longer we did the greater the enmity we would have created, allowing an even more terrible war to occur.

It's good to see a 2nd year coming onto Volconvo. If you stick with us you'll learn far, far more than that useless national curriculum will teach you.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: Scribbler1 What's with the "little kid" stuff, Bugs? You're not exactly the old wise man yourself.

I can sit at the bar in my favorite establishment and order a glass of wine. She can sit at the same bar with a booster seat and order from the childrens menu.

I mean no offense to her, by the way. "little kid" is a term of endearment. If I thought her inferior I would call her other things that Im not going into.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: bugsbunny04 I can sit at the bar in my favorite establishment and order a glass of wine.

According to your profile, on this coming May 25, a week from tomorrow.

A toast to your coming of age, bugsbunny!

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: rockchick I don't think the war should have been started in the first place. After WW1 and the Treaty of Versailles, Hitler made his Army bigger than it was allowed to be and and the Army trained in areas they weren't meant to be in. If the rest of the world had been tougher on this it's much less likely that Germany would have invaded Poland which means it's less likely WW2 would have started!

G.Adams clarifies the myopia of 20/20 hindsight. You could just as easily say that if diplomacy had been more successful in 1914, World War I would have been avoided, thus no Treaty of Versaille, etc. There's also the arguement that if Britain and France had reacted more forcefully when Hitler annexed the Sudatenland from Czechoslovakia, Hitler would have backed down, but instead it was the very diplomacy of Neville Chamberlain that's blamed for the war that followed.

The point being that there's going to be those who see war as the best way to advance their goals, whether its Hitler carrying the Spear of Destiny or Japan achieving its Imperial destiny of ruling Asia. Diplomacy plays a role only so far as it advances those goals, but if it fails, war was always their ulitmate option, as an overwhelming demonstration of their power.

The most obvious contemporary example today, to my everylasting shame as an American, is our war in Iraq. I fully believe war in Iraq was a given from the day Bush took office, for exactly the reasons I attributed to Germany and Japan. The Neo-Cons felt that since America was now the sole remaining global superpower, the glorious victor of the Cold War, it was our destiny to be able to impose our will to resolve global geo-political issues in our favor, and step one was an overwhelming demonstration of our power by overthrowing Saddam Hussein and remaking Iraq to our specifications, and no amount of diplomacy, short of Hussein's resignation and arrest, was going to stop it.

And as long as there's misguided rulers who see war as diplomacy by other means, any diplomatic response short of complete submission will be at a disadvantage and therefore using force as a legitimate defense is the only option.

That's not to say diplomacy isn't always preferable to war. As often as not, wars come about not from one nation's ambition's but from legitimate disputes over security and national interests. India and Pakistan, for instance, in which diplomacy resolved what could have erupted into war. But if war is a regime's first option, and they're using diplomacy simply for window dressing, then any diplomatic response to stop them is at a serious disadvantage, and you have to decide how much capitualation of your interests you're willing to accept just to avoid war.

.

.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: PatrickHenry According to your profile, on this coming May 25, a week from tomorrow. A toast to your coming of age, bugsbunny!

I said the bar at my favorite establishment, not any, its not what you know, its who you play rugby with

[rockchick-steph]

Quote by: bugsbunny04 You're a neat little kid, I bet you even like rugby

I hate rugby!

Quote by: bugsbunny04 I can sit at the bar in my favorite establishment and order a glass of wine. She can sit at the same bar with a booster seat and order from the childrens menu.

I'm 13. In all the restaurant's in a 30 mile radius more or less from my house the minimum age for the kids menu is 12 or less.

Anyway the debate that started all this was today and it turns out that there were only 3 debaters (2 prop, 1 opp) and I was the only one that remembered about it so it went quite well! It also turns out that the teacher that runs debating is leaving our school and the chances are that Mrs Black the hamster will take over which will be just great! :rolleyes:

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: rockchick-steph I hate rugby!...

Thats too bad, you definately wont like me very well then, Im playing with Birmingham Saturday (okay, okay, the Birmingham in Alabama...)

I'm 13. In all the restaurant's in a 30 mile radius more or less from my house the minimum age for the kids menu is 12 or less.

I was exageratting a little, on both ends, silly me.

[rockchick-steph]

Thats too bad, you definately wont like me very well then, Im playing with Birmingham Saturday (okay, okay, the Birmingham in Alabama...)

I wouldn't not like someone because of the sport they play. That's sad. And I don't like rugby because I was meant to get to play full-contact rugby in PE but my teacher went to play hockey in the commenwealth games so I got to do writing instead! And tag rugby is boring. Even though I have a scar from it!

[jose]

wowha if your from Scotland why would you even consider having an Email address as ¨englishrockchick@gmail.com are ye sassenach ?

[rockchick-steph]

Quote by: jose wowha if your from Scotland why would you even consider having an Email address as ¨englishrockchick@gmail.com are ye sassenach ?

I'm english, I live in Scotland. I moved when I was 4.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: rockchick-steph I wouldn't not like someone because of the sport they play. That's sad. And I don't like rugby because I was meant to get to play full-contact rugby in PE but my teacher went to play hockey in the commenwealth games so I got to do writing instead! And tag rugby is boring. Even though I have a scar from it!

Well, if you ever play real rugby you will like it. :)