Lullaby Chainer vs texasdave || Existence of God

**Lullaby Chainer** · 27th June 2007, 10:54 PM

Quote by: texasdave

The momentum of the expanding universe must necessarily be overcome by gravity before it could contract. That is not happening. There is no evidence it is slowing down. You are without evidence for this claim.

Of course it's not slowing down yet.. it's called momentum.

I linked you to wikipedia for a reason. You really have no clue what you're talking about.

Have you ever thrown a ball up in the air? I'm sure you have. Let's go through what happens..

The ball accelerates due to a force. Once it leaves your hand, your hand is no longer pushing it. Make sense? The only force acting on the ball, other than wind I suppose, is gravity. It would be completely moronic for me to assume that while the ball is accelerating up, that means it's never going to stop.

**Lullaby Chainer** · 27th June 2007, 11:01 PM

Quote by: texasdave

As I said, free will is not the cause of evil. Evil is caused by execising free will in a bad way. Making wrong choices. Free will can co-exist with perfect morality so long as it is within God's will AND you choose to remain in God's will.

Who gave us the chemical configurations in our brains to have desires to kill, lie, cheat and "sin"? God did. If God can remove our sinful nature, it obviously means he gave it to us.

Why did he give it to us?

Because Eve disobeyed God. WAIT A SECOND. Who gave Eve the chemical configurations of curiosity and lack of loyalty to obey God knowing the consequences of such? Who created Lucifer knowing full well that he would disobey God and be sent to Hell where he would then tempt Eve to eat the fruit? Who created the magical fruit bound to infinite sin, which God knowingly put there on purpose knowing it's consequences of placing it with the existence of a fallen angel he also created and knew would then tempt Eve into eating this fruit he created.

God KNEW and PLANNED for there to be sin, for people to suffer forever in Hell. God KNEW and PLANNED for Eve to eat the fruit.

And he feels this one mistake is worth torturing billions of innocent people who had yet and still have yet to be born. Your God is sick.

**texasdave** · 27th June 2007, 11:01 PM

Your analogy is flawed becaue the balls mass and velocity are not sufficient to overcome the gravity. However, if the ball were a galaxy and moving near light speed , gravity would have a much more difficult time overcoming momentum AND the further the ball moved away from the earth the weaker the gravity would become. Gravity is not constant. It is dependent upon mass and distance. The further you move away from objects that have gravity, the weaker it becomes. The universe is not slowing down because the momentum of it is overcoming the gravity of the objects contained in it. And the further apart they get the weaker it is and the likelihood of contraction subsequently decreases.

**texasdave** · 27th June 2007, 11:07 PM

God knew of it ,yes. But He did not plan it. He planned AROUND it. That plan is Jesus Christ. He indeed knew it would happen and the evidence that He planned around it was contained in His curse on the serpent. He said the serpent would bruise the woman's seed's heel(Jesus) And the woman's seed would bruise his (satan's) head. This was the first messianic prophecy.

**Lullaby Chainer** · 27th June 2007, 11:21 PM

Quote by: texasdave

Your analogy is flawed becaue the balls mass and velocity are not sufficient to overcome the gravity. However, if the ball were a galaxy and moving near light speed , gravity would have a much more difficult time overcoming momentum AND the further the ball moved away from the earth the weaker the gravity would become. Gravity is not constant. It is dependent upon mass and distance. The further you move away from objects that have gravity, the weaker it becomes.

Gravity doesn't just disappear at a certain distance, like you seem to believe. Please cite that bull shit.

Those galaxies are not still under the force of the explosion. They are moving because of momentum and just like the ball that is accelerating after you throw it.. they too will return.

Quote by: texasdave

The universe is not slowing down because the momentum of it is overcoming the gravity of the objects contained in it. And the further apart they get the weaker it is and the likelihood of contraction subsequently decreases.

And to think I thought my elementary school example of tossing a ball up in the air would be insulting yet you still have a very bizzare, twisted idea of physics. Hopeful thinking, perhaps.

Regardless, I'm going to try to explain to you physics even though I should be spending my time debating.

The force of gravity on the galaxies will ALWAYS equal a positive number because there will always be a distance, and there will always be a mass. Both distance and mass are POSITIVE.. and cannot be divided in a ratio in any way in order to reach a negative number. Good so far?

Gravity will ALWAYS be a force pulling on the galaxies. The galaxies are now accelerating due to an explosion that launched them. Much like my hand launching a ball into the air.

The similarity is. There are NO other forces pushing it away from gravity. It is acting on momentum alone, and yes.. Dave, things CAN accelerate before being pulled back by gravity. The ball CAN and DOES accelerate due to the force of your hand and I hope you know it WILL come back because GRAVITY is the only force in effect. The difference in mass and distance DOES NOT MEAN two positive numbers can divide to make zero or a negative number. I don't know why you think that, but you need to stop. I don't want to have to explain math to you too.

**Lullaby Chainer** · 27th June 2007, 11:23 PM

Quote by: texasdave

God knew of it ,yes. But He did not plan it. He planned AROUND it. That plan is Jesus Christ. He indeed knew it would happen and the evidence that He planned around it was contained in His curse on the serpent. He said the serpent would bruise the woman's seed's heel(Jesus) And the woman's seed would bruise his (satan's) head. This was the first messianic prophecy.

That is complete bull shit.

He KNEW what would happen due to the exact way he acted and he KNEW what would happen because he is OMNISCIENT. You can't KNOW what's going to happen yet "plan" for it to happen the other way.

That's like me sticking you at the edge of a building, pushing you off and when they question me I respond with "Oh, even though I knew he would fall I was planning on him flying." That is complete BULL SHIT.

**texasdave** · 28th June 2007, 05:36 AM

I never said gravity would be zero. I said it would be too weak to overcome the momentum because it will be there but be negligible.

**texasdave** · 28th June 2007, 05:37 AM

God did plan around it. He had to in order for you to still have free will. You still have choice even with His planning around of your known transgression. Getting frustrated are you?
God didn't push you off. You jumped. So He gave you wings if you choose them in Jesus.

**Lullaby Chainer** · 28th June 2007, 10:20 AM

Quote by: texasdave

I never said gravity would be zero. I said it would be too weak to overcome the momentum because it will be there but be negligible.

Unless gravity equals zero or less, there is a mathematical date that the universe will begin returning to a center point.. the equation, a simple physics equations of accelerations, yields a number because gravity is NOT zero or negative.

I shouldn't have to argue this. If you want a real argument.. look into anti-gravity.

**Lullaby Chainer** · 28th June 2007, 10:38 AM

Quote by: texasdave

God did plan around it. He had to in order for you to still have free will.

Free will and moral perfection can co-exist, as you admitted earlier. He didn't HAVE to make billions of people suffer forever. You're lying to yourself.

Quote by: texasdave

You still have choice even with His planning around of your known transgression. Getting frustrated are you?
God didn't push you off. You jumped. So He gave you wings if you choose them in Jesus.

No, I do not have a choice. I cannot mentally or physically believe in your god.

So you know, before I lost faith in God, I prayed and begged for any sign at all. Anything at all to keep my faith. Every night I stayed up crying (I'm a wuss.. but keep in mind I was like 7 too) and prayed to him with an open heart and an open mind trying to feel him.. trying to feel anything at all.

He didn't answer. I'm going to Hell because of that. He knows how to reach me.. by fixing this crappy world he's created. Then I'll believe. Until then, I've reached a point in which I would absolutely despise your god, if he existed, and I would gladly choose Hell over an eternity with him. That's just who I am, and God had his chance to reach me. He didn't, and now this faulty creature that God himself created precisely as I am, knowing every consequence of possible variable in my creation, can't find him.. and because of that I'm destined to Hell, according to your very old religious book.. out of hundreds, mind you.

You act like we all have a fair shot and we're CHOOSING to go to Hell. That's actually not the case, Dave.

It goes more like this.

I'm born into a world and my real father, or the real god, is not obvious to me. In this world just about everyone is screaming at me telling me THEIR father is the one true father and all other fathers are false. There are hundreds of these fathers, and none of them come directly to me. Then you come, and dammit Dave.. you're not alone, and tell me I'm willingly choosing Hell over your one correct path to Heaven.

I find it sick that your God sends people to Hell for not believing in something so many people obviously cannot manage to find.

You also never answered my question. What finite sin deserves infinite punishment?

You also need to address my post #15.

**texasdave** · 29th June 2007, 05:26 AM

God didn;t jump up and hug you at seven years old? Is that the reason you disbelieve? What happened in your life that made you angry at God? What desperation at 7 made you seek Him so frevently at that moment?