Riots erupt after French protests

[jose]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4821670.stm

French riot police have used tear gas and water cannon after protests against a new labour law turned violent.
More than 160 people were arrested after clashes erupted in eastern Paris following a day of largely peaceful demonstrations across France.

The violence broke out at the eastern Place de la Nation as police attempted to disperse demonstrators following a mainly peaceful march through the capital involving students, workers, pensioners and families.

Protesters are bitterly opposed to the new law, which allows employers to end job contracts for under-26s at any time during a two-year trial period without having to offer an explanation or give prior warning

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

jose bless the French for their truly libertarian approach to politics and civil rights.

So good to see civil action rather than elelctorate apathy. Whilst I deplore the violence, it must be looked in the higher perspective of allowing a voice to the people. Question is will the politicians listen?

[SteveA]

This is simply another casualty of socialism. They can't afford to keep the law restricting employment and can't afford to drop it because of riots because people are ignorant of the effects.

Here's another article with some commentary on the law:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4818918.stm

It seems obvious this law simply makes it more difficult for younger people to get jobs in the first place as well as likely lowers the value of the work also. From the information in the articles they should get rid of the law, and in my opinion the rioters are just digging the hole deeper. Notice how they expect funding from government to industries in the belief that this will make them more competitive. This entire thing is a socialist backlash against a problem caused by socialism and sad all around. The U.S. might get this way eventually too. I guess we'll find out.

[G. Adams]

Quote by: SteveA This is simply another casualty of socialism. They can't afford to keep the law restricting employment and can't afford to drop it because of riots because people are ignorant of the effects. Here's another article with some commentary on the law: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4818918.stm It seems obvious this law simply makes it more difficult for younger people to get jobs in the first place as well as likely lowers the value of the work also. From the information in the articles they should get rid of the law, and in my opinion the rioters are just digging the hole deeper. Notice how they expect funding from government to industries in the belief that this will make them more competitive. This entire thing is a socialist backlash against a problem caused by socialism and sad all around. The U.S. might get this way eventually too. I guess we'll find out.

I agree with you that this is the fault of socialism, but to be specific "statist" socialism. In France, with their strong and well organised unions, it would be possible to totally liberalise the market. The unions would barter deals with business on behalf of the workers, rather than having the government forcing deals upon both workers and business that quickly become obsolete. This would encourage greater solidarity amongst the workers, encourage more independant thinking (in that the answer isn't always government) etc So you could have socialism within capitalism, safety nets without crippling regulation

[tinybear]

Hey, I saw on TV the mob was targetting American-owned shops and fast food outlets!!! What did we do wrong this time??? I'm bewildered.

[shield772]

It's the French who cares, let them kill themselves

[Arawn-ap-Hywel]

Quote by: tinybear Hey, I saw on TV the mob was targetting American-owned shops and fast food outlets!!! What did we do wrong this time??? I'm bewildered.

tinybear probably only attacking shops and business places near to violent riot and with paving or street furniture easy to rip up

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: tinybear Hey, I saw on TV the mob was targetting American-owned shops and fast food outlets!!! What did we do wrong this time??? I'm bewildered.

I thought you were Chinese. What do you mean by "we"?

[Nono]

Quote by: TB What did we do wrong this time???

Listen up, tiny. It's called the "Washington Consensus" and it means the dismantlement of the welfare state so laboriously constructed after WWII. Y'all* twistin' arms around the world to abolish laws that used to make it possible for people to earn a decent living, and replace the old ones with rules facilitating the global race to the bottom.

So when people blame Merkins for their troubles, it might be a trifle simplistic, but it's not all that far off.

Of course, someone as priviliged as you apparently are couldn't be expected to wrap her mind around this.

* See, tiny? I consider you an honourary American, even if your precise status remains mired in murk.

[SteveA]

Quote by: G. Adams I agree with you that this is the fault of socialism, but to be specific "statist" socialism. In France, with their strong and well organised unions, it would be possible to totally liberalise the market. The unions would barter deals with business on behalf of the workers, rather than having the government forcing deals upon both workers and business that quickly become obsolete. This would encourage greater solidarity amongst the workers, encourage more independant thinking (in that the answer isn't always government) etc So you could have socialism within capitalism, safety nets without crippling regulation

Yes, that would be an improvement though ultimately I think the problem is deeper and has become more of a social/cultural one. The fact that so many young people feel a need to protest this indicates to me that France is likely going to have similar issues for decades to come. There's no free lunch and the apparent strong belief among the upcoming generation there that retaining this law will improve income, jobs and the overall economic health of the country will likely lead to continued poor decisions in the future. I don't know how representative these protests are of the country as a whole but I know even in America many people believe similarly and my guess is that France is likely more entrenched in socialist policies and beliefs so I'll make a prediction that this will grow further into a reliance on collective management of economic affairs, reduce competition and encourage stagnation with an even greater future concern over inflation and their trade deficit similar to the U.S.

[tinybear]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I thought you were Chinese. What do you mean by "we"?

I'm ethinic Chinese; American citizen. Nono says I'm honary American. I wonder what that means. :)

[tinybear]

Quote by: Nono Listen up, tiny. It's called the "Washington Consensus" and it means the dismantlement of the welfare state so laboriously constructed after WWII. Y'all* twistin' arms around the world to abolish laws that used to make it possible for people to earn a decent living, and replace the old ones with rules facilitating the global race to the bottom. So when people blame Merkins for their troubles, it might be a trifle simplistic, but it's not all that far off. Of course, someone as priviliged as you apparently are couldn't be expected to wrap her mind around this. * See, tiny? I consider you an honourary American, even if your precise status remains mired in murk.

What's wrong with dismantling the welfare state? The welfare state sucks.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: tinybear I'm ethinic Chinese; American citizen. Nono says I'm honary American. I wonder what that means. :)

I assume Nono didn't realize you were an American citizen, and neither did I. In that case the term "honorary" doesn't apply.

[rmnunez]

Naturalized or naturally born united statians cannot acquire "honorary" citizenship?

[Nono]

Quote by: tiny I'm ethinic Chinese; American citizen.

Well you see this clears up a longstanding ambiguity (nurtured it seems to me by a certain ursine midget).
Right, then I mean you Americans and your sterile ideological rigidity. You and the policies you ram through symbolize the growing worldwide wealth gap. The French (who love a nice lively window-shattering demonstration from time to time) go for the symbols. That's politics.

[Nono]

Quote by: tiny The welfare state sucks.

tiny, you are -- by your own account -- a coddled little Chinese princess who suckles on the teat of parental largesse. (Please correct me if I've got my facts wrong here.)

To aggravate matters you somehow find the nerve to condemn (in a mere four words -- admirably economical of you) a system designed to keep people far less fortunate than yourself out of abject misery by lifting them just clear of absolute poverty, something you naturally know nothing about.

How did you get to be so smug? By hearing tons of self-righteous rant at Daddy's knee?

[tinybear]

Oooh, how did all that venom get into your system, Nono?

Of course the welfare system sucks. It breeds disincentive to work amongst able-bodied young people and a culture of dependence and blaming others for a misfortune which they themselves are the authors. Did you see those who rioted in the streets of Paris, Lyon and other cities in France? Do they look like people who are unable to earn a decent living by their own efforts? All they want to do is to ask for handouts from their fellow citizens who (under compulsion of the law) fork out 50% of their hard-earned money to subsidize them.

[SteveA]

Quote by: Nono tiny, you are -- by your own account -- a coddled little Chinese princess who suckles on the teat of parental largesse. (Please correct me if I've got my facts wrong here.) To aggravate matters you somehow find the nerve to condemn (in a mere four words -- admirably economical of you) a system designed to keep people far less fortunate than yourself out of abject misery by lifting them just clear of absolute poverty, something you naturally know nothing about. How did you get to be so smug? By hearing tons of self-righteous rant at Daddy's knee?

Hypocracy or sarcasm?

[G. Adams]

Quote by: tinybear Oooh, how did all that venom get into your system, Nono? Of course the welfare system sucks. It breeds disincentive to work amongst able-bodied young people and a culture of dependence and blaming others for a misfortune which they themselves are the authors. Did you see those who rioted in the streets of Paris, Lyon and other cities in France? Do they look like people who are unable to earn a decent living by their own efforts? All they want to do is to ask for handouts from their fellow citizens who (under compulsion of the law) fork out 50% of their hard-earned money to subsidize them.

Clearly living off handouts produces laziness and a disincentive to work, just look at you, living off daddy's wealth for who knows how many months now, with no inclination to start work. I hope, for your own good of course, he cuts you off and dumps you in the streets.

[tinybear]

Quote by: G. Adams Clearly living off handouts produces laziness and a disincentive to work, just look at you, living off daddy's wealth for who knows how many months now, with no inclination to start work. I hope, for your own good of course, he cuts you off and dumps you in the streets.

I'm trying to get a job. I just haven't succeeded that's all. Besides, Dad loves me and is very willing to give me his money *Smirk*

Contrast this with the case of those student rioters who would gladly see total strangers hand them money under compulsion of law. Surely you see the difference, no? :)