Breaking: U.S. forces launch largest air assault since invasion

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp If you really believe this then you are out of your mind. Do you seriously believe that the US should launch a brutal invasion of any nation that has even persecuted Christians? You basically want the US to pick up the banner of Christian jihad. Iraq never attacked us. It is your argument for Christian jihad that comes straight from hell.

well, tell that to the multiple videos you can find at Voice of the Martyr. did you miss the part where I said they were AMERICAN CITIZENS THAT WERE KILLED? kill or sanction the killing of an American citizen, and you declare war on the US. that is in our Constitution. would you like me to find it? they didn't persecute, they went right past that to killing them and saving one to send back to America with their video tape of the murder. you really that much of an asshole that you would turn up your nose at the needless deaths of other Americans?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: jose you say that they never attacked us? that is a lie straight from hell, and no, I am not talking about 9/11. any country that sanctions the death of an American citizen is basically declaring war against us. well, Voice of the Martyr has several videos of people who have died because of the Hussein-sanctioned persecution of Christianity. many of these people were Americans that died in horrible ways. publically whipped, tortured and killed, on video. that is a blatant act of war that our precious democrats decided to ignore (remember, Bill Clinton?) would you rather the same number of American CIVILIANS be dead because of Iraq? or would you rather that the dead people took some of the assholes down with them? no links from any site supporting your views? If someone breaks the law of a country they must face that countries justice system, many foriegn people are put to death in America, is that then a decleration of war against thier country?

www.persecution.com is the home page of Voice of the Martyrs. if you like you can go and browse. the only way to see the vids is to sign up. hey it is free, so.

also, there is NO law in Iraq against Christianity. it is found only in the Jihad. the difference between the foreigners dead here is that the law was broken. no such law existed, so no law was broken.

[RickSp]

Quote by: dthmstr254 well, tell that to the multiple videos you can find at Voice of the Martyr. did you miss the part where I said they were AMERICAN CITIZENS THAT WERE KILLED? kill or sanction the killing of an American citizen, and you declare war on the US. that is in our Constitution. would you like me to find it? they didn't persecute, they went right past that to killing them and saving one to send back to America with their video tape of the murder. you really that much of an asshole that you would turn up your nose at the needless deaths of other Americans?

What insanity. Pure and simple Christian jihadi bullshit.

And please point out where in the Constitution it specifies that if a crazy missionary gets his or her ass killed, that we are required to launch a war of aggression that butchers thousands of innocent civilians and bankrupts US taxpayers. Please be specific as to the cite, won't you.

[SteveA]

"More than 1,500 Iraqi and Coalition troops, over 200 tactical vehicles, and more than 50 aircraft participated in the operation,"

Everytime I read this, it seems to point out how hopeless things are the from a U.S. perspective. All this time, and we've had over a hundred thousand troops in the area with plenty of high tech support etc. and probably half or more of this mix are "Coalition" forces. What are maybe 700 Iraqies, 100 vehicles and maybe 5-10 aircraft going to be able to do that a hundred thousand plus troops couldn't do? It's simply the fact that most Iraqies have tolerated us there that even makes this operation possible.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: RickSp What insanity. Pure and simple Christian jihadi bullshit. And please point out where in the Constitution it specifies that if a crazy missionary gets his or her ass killed, that we are required to launch a war of aggression that butchers thousands of innocent civilians and bankrupts US taxpayers. Please be specific as to the cite, won't you.

Good point, and one I think a lot of people miss in cases like these. When missionaries, contract workers and reporters go in to places that are well-known to be dangerous, or at the very least unfriendly toward Americans you have to understand you are taking a chance and no one will be there to bail you out if you voluntarily walk into the lions den.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp What insanity. Pure and simple Christian jihadi bullshit. And please point out where in the Constitution it specifies that if a crazy missionary gets his or her ass killed, that we are required to launch a war of aggression that butchers thousands of innocent civilians and bankrupts US taxpayers. Please be specific as to the cite, won't you.

ok, lets say that every one of those people killed were atheists. if that were true, could we call this pure and simple atheistic jihadi bullshit? religion/belief does NOT determine citizenship. 85% of the missionaries killed in Iraq were American CITIZENS. so I ask again, what right have you to be such an asshole as to turn your nose up at the deaths of hundreds of AMERICAN CITIZENS. notice what part I am focusing on this time. I ain't citing a specific quote, because the quote you are asking for has as much relevance to this debate as the crap that comes out your butt.

[RickSp]

Quote by: dthmstr254 ok, lets say that every one of those people killed were atheists. if that were true, could we call this pure and simple atheistic jihadi bullshit? religion/belief does NOT determine citizenship. 85% of the missionaries killed in Iraq were American CITIZENS. so I ask again, what right have you to be such an asshole as to turn your nose up at the deaths of hundreds of AMERICAN CITIZENS. notice what part I am focusing on this time. I ain't citing a specific quote, because the quote you are asking for has as much relevance to this debate as the crap that comes out your butt.

So now we know that the Bible school boy can only really manage badly composed insults. Pathetic. And your claims are as empty as your school boy name calling. You claim that action is required by the Constitution but won't say where, because, surprise, surprise, you made it all up, like so much of your babbling. I notice that you provide no references, no links, absolutely squat to your idiotic assertions. You justify a brutal war based on your illiterate ranting. Grow up.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp So now we know that the Bible school boy can only really manage badly composed insults. Pathetic. And your claims are as empty as your school boy name calling. You claim that action is required by the Constitution but won't say where, because, surprise, surprise, you made it all up, like so much of your babbling. I notice that you provide no references, no links, absolutely squat to your idiotic assertions. You justify a brutal war based on your illiterate ranting. Grow up.

your logic leads that if they were all atheists, then this would be an atheistic jihad. that is something that you deny, but don't seem to recognize that this is a two way road. when an American citizen is killed, the killer(s) declare war on America. why do you think murderers are cut off from society into a jail? these killers were the government of Iraq. their victims: American citizens. when you kill an American citizen for no damn reason outside of pure racism, you declare war on America. that is the final line. if you would like to read, read this:

These cases settled the issue whether a state of war could exist without formal declaration by Congress. When hostile action is taken against the Nation, or against its citizens or commerce, the appropriate response by order of the President may be resort to force. But the issue [that has been] so much a source of controversy in the era of the Cold War and so divisive politically in the context of United States involvement in the Vietnamese War has been whether the President is empowered to commit troops abroad to further national interests in the absence of a declaration of war or specific congressional authorization short of such a declaration.\1431\ The Supreme Court studiously refused to consider the issue in any of the forms in which it was presented,\1432\ and the lower courts generally refused, on ``political question'' grounds, to adjudicate the matter.\1433\ In the absence of judicial elucidation, the Congress and the President have been required to accommodate themselves in the controversy to accept from each other less than each has been willing to accept but more than either has been willing to grant.\1434\

source

another source

[jose]

I would think a site that includes the name ¨the voice of the martyrs¨would need at least a few martyrs i joined and tried to find videos the only ones i found were for sale!
have you got a specific link or a name so i can see for my self?

i noticed your sig line:“When all is a lie, twisted within webs of deceit, when all is a façade, the truth is what you make of it.” R.A. Salvatore.
is your truth what you make it? :)

[RickSp]

Well at least this time you avoided school yard name calling. I guess that is progress.

Your justification for war remains idiotic and unsupported. Your link is a discussion the possible grounds for a declaration of war. It does nothing to explain your bizarre assertion "kill or sanction the killing of an American citizen, and you declare war on the US. that is in our Constitution." That is not in our Constitution. Not even close.

You have provided no justification for your claim that "hundred of Americans" were killed by Saddam. You seem so happy to support wars of aggression that kill tens or perhaps hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. Bizarre.

When an Iraqi airplane fired two Exocet missiles at the USS Stark in 1987, killing 35 American sailors and almost destroying the guided missile frigate, the US didn't go to war against Saddam. The US gave Saddam more military aid. That was stupid then, just as your glorification of a war of aggression is stupid now.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp Well at least this time you avoided school yard name calling. I guess that is progress. Your justification for war remains idiotic and unsupported. Your link is a discussion the possible grounds for a declaration of war. It does nothing to explain your bizarre assertion "kill or sanction the killing of an American citizen, and you declare war on the US. that is in our Constitution." That is not in our Constitution. Not even close. You have provided no justification for your claim that "hundred of Americans" were killed by Saddam. You seem so happy to support wars of aggression that kill tens or perhaps hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. Bizarre. When an Iraqi airplane fired two Exocet missiles at the USS Stark in 1987, killing 35 American sailors and almost destroying the guided missile frigate, the US didn't go to war against Saddam. The US gave Saddam more military aid. That was stupid then, just as your glorification of a war of aggression is stupid now.

wait wait wait. so going to war over the deaths of American citizens (a number now too high to count) is stupid and not going to war over the deaths of American citizens is stupid? you can't have it both ways. I have provided a site that will give you the current statistics. (www.persecution.com) and I have provided you two law sites that quote the constitution.
a three source argument against your zero source argument. you yell at me for having no sources in the past. well, this is well documented. it was no discussion. the quote is verbatim the same on both the law sites. and if you like, I could provide a few more that have that exact quote.
thirdly, there is no reliable count of Iraqi civilians that have been killed, because of our lovely morons we call the press who tend to overexaggerate things.

[RickSp]

Quote by: dthmstr254 wait wait wait. so going to war over the deaths of American citizens (a number now too high to count) is stupid and not going to war over the deaths of American citizens is stupid? you can't have it both ways. I have provided a site that will give you the current statistics. (www.persecution.com) and I have provided you two law sites that quote the constitution. a three source argument against your zero source argument. you yell at me for having no sources in the past. well, this is well documented. it was no discussion. the quote is verbatim the same on both the law sites. and if you like, I could provide a few more that have that exact quote. thirdly, there is no reliable count of Iraqi civilians that have been killed, because of our lovely morons we call the press who tend to overexaggerate things.

You are amusing. You and your site persecution.com are equally laughable. (There is nothing much on the site unless you buy their stuff or become a member.) You claim that the number of dead Americans is now "too high to count". Well damn, it. Take off your shoes and use your toes, if you have problems with arithmetic. Your attack on the press is getting really, really old. You don't care for the truth, so you blame the messenger. And you are calling them morons. LOL.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp You are amusing. You and your site persecution.com are equally laughable. (There is nothing much on the site unless you buy their stuff or become a member.) You claim that the number of dead Americans is now "too high to count". Well damn, it. Take off your shoes and use your toes, if you have problems with arithmetic. Your attack on the press is getting really, really old. You don't care for the truth, so you blame the messenger. And you are calling them morons. LOL.

I care for unbiased opinions. these are extremely rare in our press. they are extremely liberal and will do anything within their power to discredit Bush. the only time I have ever seen them discredit a democrat was when Bill was impeached.
also, can I chop off a few of y'all's feet so I can continue counting. I might need about 40-50 pairs of hands and feet. and that is the number that have come and never come back. you also completely ignored my other two law sites. so, as of right now, this discussion is over. cause I don't listen to people who would turn their noses up to facts.

[phoenix_fire]

All I remember from the press on the impeachment proceedings was a bunch of reaction shots of people saying that they didn't care what Wild Bill did and still thought he was the best president ever. It kinda annoyed me.

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: Dthmster well, tell that to the multiple videos you can find at Voice of the Martyr. did you miss the part where I said they were AMERICAN CITIZENS THAT WERE KILLED? kill or sanction the killing of an American citizen, and you declare war on the US. that is in our Constitution. would you like me to find it?

Yeah, as a matter of fact, I'd like to see that. While I'm sure you'd like to believe that citizenship in **}} Empire America {{** is your free golden ticket to anywhere in the world, it simply isn't so. American citizens on sovereign foreign soil are subject to the laws of that country, and whether they are in violation of those laws or victims of crimes, there's not spit our government can do about it. Now in most countries worldwide, we can count on a legal system agreeable to foreigers. In other countries... Saddam Hussein's Iraq, for instance... you're on your own.

Quote by: Dthmster your logic leads that if they were all atheists, then this would be an atheistic jihad. that is something that you deny, but don't seem to recognize that this is a two way road.

How did you arrive at this? Americans being murdered overseas is a tragedy, whether they're tourists, business people or missionaries, and they upset me equally. But the fact remains, if they're overseas, then America can't do diddly to protect them... unless, of course, we have good diplomatic relations with that country. Even then, all that guarantees is, hopefully, that government's friendly cooperation. Recall the American teenage boy that was to be caned in Singapore or the American cheerleader missing in Aruba.

.

[rmnunez]

American citizens on sovereign foreign soil are subject to the laws of that country, and whether they are in violation of those laws or victims of crimes, there's not spit our government can do about it.

Yes, but not quite. US citizens abroad certainly are subject to the laws of the land where they may find themselves, but when these laws are disagreeable, they have more resources to draw upon. If a united statian runs afould of the law, there is an embassy official who will be at least notified (not always the case for many other foreigners). If the law is abusively disagreeable, the US embassy will have some imput on its application to their citizen.

US embassies don't do much for united statians who run afoul of the law, can't even refer an attorney, but if the law is notoriously unjust and there were a US embassy in Cuba and Helena Houdova were a US citizen, things like this (two or three months ago) wouldn't be stood for:

Czech supermodel Helena Houdova and psychologist Mariana Kroftova were detained in Cuba on Monday when Houdova was taking photographs of a slum in the capital of Havana, Reuters news agency reported today. The two women spent 11 hours in police custody... They were released after they pledged in writing that they will not join any “counter-revolutionary activities” in the country, Houdova said. They were also ordered not to leave Havana until Sunday when they are to end their stay in the country. Cuban police also confiscated Houdova’s film, but she said she had succeeded in hiding the memory card from her digital camera in her bra. “They screamed at us. We were afraid,” Houdova said, adding “we grew up under communism and know what it is like.” http://havanajournal.com/politics/en...ained_in_cuba/

What, didn't check her bra!?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Sonart . Yeah, as a matter of fact, I'd like to see that. While I'm sure you'd like to believe that citizenship in **}} Empire America {{** is your free golden ticket to anywhere in the world, it simply isn't so. American citizens on sovereign foreign soil are subject to the laws of that country, and whether they are in violation of those laws or victims of crimes, there's not spit our government can do about it. Now in most countries worldwide, we can count on a legal system agreeable to foreigers. In other countries... Saddam Hussein's Iraq, for instance... you're on your own.

show me where I said that. it ain't no free ticket. it gives the citizen full constitutional rights to see justice done. justice meeted out when a country kills an American, justice can be war. when hundreds are killed by that country, it means war. Suddam has killed countless American citizens when they were overseas just visiting.

How did you arrive at this? Americans being murdered overseas is a tragedy, whether they're tourists, business people or missionaries, and they upset me equally. But the fact remains, if they're overseas, then America can't do diddly to protect them... unless, of course, we have good diplomatic relations with that country. Even then, all that guarantees is, hopefully, that government's friendly cooperation. Recall the American teenage boy that was to be caned in Singapore or the American cheerleader missing in Aruba. .

murder is defined as the killing of one person by another person(s). it doesn't say the killing of a person(s) by a country. when the numbers reach a high number, action needs to be taken. if Bush Sr had done his job right, we would be done with what is being done now. part of the reason we are having such a hard time finishing this war is because the Iraqis don't trust us.

[phoenix_fire]

I wonder why they might not trust the US... :rolleyes:

I'm personally of the opinion that war is murder. Doesn't matter if a "country" does it or not. Countries are still made up of people. Like the NRA saying:

Guns don't kill people: I do.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: phoenix_fire I'm personally of the opinion that war is murder. Doesn't matter if a "country" does it or not.

But it DOES matter who started it, which makes all the difference when you speak of murder or murderers.

[jose]

Nothing gets Fox News' dander up like a persecuted Christian, but what happens when the persecuting is coming from a brand spanking new democracy that their pet president has enshrined? Fuzzy journalism, that's what happens.

The "Dayside" couple Juliet Huddy and Mike Jerrick on Tuesday (March 21, 2006) tried to deal with the case of Abdul Rahman, a 41-year-old Afghani who faces death because he converted to Christianity. Jerrick correctly pointed out that capital punishment for rejecting Islam is permitted under the constitution of the "government we helped put in place" to replace the Taliban.
http://www.newshounds.us/2006/03/22/death_sentence_for_afghan_christian_shows_hollowness_of_bushs_democracy.php