Feds target gangs in crackdown

[Clarence]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/10/gan...ion=cnn_latest

Friday, March 10, 2006; Posted: 5:41 p.m. EST (22:41 GMT) The Bloods, Crips, Disciples and an increasingly popular street gang known as MS-13 were among the gangs targeted in a Department of Homeland Security operation over the past two weeks that yielded 375 arrests of wanted members in 23 states, the department announced Friday. What makes Operation Community Shield different from other crackdowns is that federal authorities for the first time are using immigration and customs authorities in an attempt to dismantle what they call "transnational, violent street gangs," according to DHS. DHS launched the operation last year after immigration officials dubbed the street gang Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, as "one of the largest and most violent street gangs in the country."

This is the stepping out. Let's see if this coordinated roundup by a brand new agency is within the laws. God, I hope so. This is likely the show of force some of us have been waiting for...IMO. Jeepers, where do we start? What is gonna be made of this? Will the American people support or reject these nationwide roundups? Will the media report that people support or oppose? Christ, I think I know the answers. Can this level of coodination happen without questionable surviellence techniques? someone call me paranoid and give a calming reasuring summary, before I start gettin tense. This is the biggest thing since... Katrina, I think.

Though the operation no longer discriminates among gangs, the Los Angeles, California-based MS-13 remains a priority. Just last year, FBI Assistant Director Chris Swecker testified to a congressional committee that MS-13 had a significant presence in Virginia, New York, California, Texas, Oregon and Nebraska.

which operation? I know, Operation Community Sheild. Or is it ICE? Or is it the entire homeland security dept that no longer just arrests terrorist, but is now involved in local law enforcement?

In a news conference Friday, DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff compared fighting gang violence to fighting terrorism. He added that the participation of all levels of law enforcement was necessary to fight the "scourge" of gang violence in communities across the United States.

...

Many of the gang members, however, don't face criminal charges, and instead are deported after administrative immigration hearings, according to DHS.

good news there. At least they're not put into gulags or something communist like that. heh

According to DHS, 260 of the 375 arrestees have past criminal records, and 73 face new charges ranging from drug and gun violations to re-entering the country after being deported. The others face deportation proceedings.

these are also good numbers. However; I think there is justification for oversite, especially if this going to happen regularly.

ICE's inaugural crackdown in February and March 2005 netted the arrests of more than 100 MS-13 members, and two months later, ICE expanded the operation to include all street and prison gangs with foreign-born members.

jesus. I know I'm reading into this. but...

[bugsbunny04]

Good, round them bitches up, clean up the streets. Good police work.

Does that answer your questions?

[Osborn F Enready]

Its the end of the world as we know it......

I know I am ready, but I don't think many others really are.

This is the first roundup of the American SS.

I would like to quote myself now.....

The only thing that is still protecting Americans, is the length of the line of other people in front of them to be tortured, imprisoned and forced into National or State servitude under the guise of "rehabillitation" in the "prison system".

Look at the number of non-violent, active, normal citizens imprisoned for POSSESION of marijuana, growing marijuana, or consuming marijuana, and you see the first wave of citizen soldiers in the rebellion already behind bars. They spoke out with their actions against the system, and the people closed their ears because "it didn't affect them" or "they didn't support it" even though it was within those peoples rights to consume marijuana, grow and possess. The people failed them, and are continuing to fail them, for now.

This nation is full of sheeple anymore, and they are being led to slaughter by lemmings in their own right. How bad is it when lemming"ism" starts to spread like a virus?

Your rights reside in your will to protect, defend and exercise them. The people no longer exist, nor does a beneficial government, at least in this nation or the world from my perspective as a Constitutional American.

This roundup mentality will continue until it is met with massive armed resistance, and it will eventually, as the reasons for round-up change from market to market of unwilling victims supported by the ignorance and silence of all the witnesses.

[Clarence]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready the reasons for round-up change from market to market of unwilling victims supported by the ignorance and silence of all the witnesses.

key statement

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Its the end of the world as we know it...... I know I am ready, but I don't think many others really are. This is the first roundup of the American SS. I would like to quote myself now..... The only thing that is still protecting Americans, is the length of the line of other people in front of them to be tortured, imprisoned and forced into National or State servitude under the guise of "rehabillitation" in the "prison system". Look at the number of non-violent, active, normal citizens imprisoned for POSSESION of marijuana, growing marijuana, or consuming marijuana, and you see the first wave of citizen soldiers in the rebellion already behind bars. They spoke out with their actions against the system, and the people closed their ears because "it didn't affect them" or "they didn't support it" even though it was within those peoples rights to consume marijuana, grow and possess. The people failed them, and are continuing to fail them, for now. This nation is full of sheeple anymore, and they are being led to slaughter by lemmings in their own right. How bad is it when lemming"ism" starts to spread like a virus? Your rights reside in your will to protect, defend and exercise them. The people no longer exist, nor does a beneficial government, at least in this nation or the world from my perspective as a Constitutional American. This roundup mentality will continue until it is met with massive armed resistance, and it will eventually, as the reasons for round-up change from market to market of unwilling victims supported by the ignorance and silence of all the witnesses.

That is a damn good post my brother. Word!


Truith is, I don't think this is very far from the truth. Fascists is, as fascists does, as Forrest would telll you.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Its the end of the world as we know it...... I know I am ready, but I don't think many others really are. This is the first roundup of the American SS. I would like to quote myself now..... The only thing that is still protecting Americans, is the length of the line of other people in front of them to be tortured, imprisoned and forced into National or State servitude under the guise of "rehabillitation" in the "prison system". Look at the number of non-violent, active, normal citizens imprisoned for POSSESION of marijuana, growing marijuana, or consuming marijuana, and you see the first wave of citizen soldiers in the rebellion already behind bars. They spoke out with their actions against the system, and the people closed their ears because "it didn't affect them" or "they didn't support it" even though it was within those peoples rights to consume marijuana, grow and possess. The people failed them, and are continuing to fail them, for now. This nation is full of sheeple anymore, and they are being led to slaughter by lemmings in their own right. How bad is it when lemming"ism" starts to spread like a virus? Your rights reside in your will to protect, defend and exercise them. The people no longer exist, nor does a beneficial government, at least in this nation or the world from my perspective as a Constitutional American. This roundup mentality will continue until it is met with massive armed resistance, and it will eventually, as the reasons for round-up change from market to market of unwilling victims supported by the ignorance and silence of all the witnesses.

Okay, what does all that have to do with a crack down on people who rape, rob and murder, not to mention dabble into the human smuggling and slave trades?

I agree that the war on drugs is silly at best, but these crips, bloods, and certainly the MS-13s are NOT your laid back Starbuckster that hits off a bong with Sublime playing in the background. These are dangerous, dangerous men who exhibit savagery that simply doesnt belong in developed societies.

[Osborn F Enready]

Bugs said: Okay, what does all that have to do with a crack down on people who rape, rob and murder, not to mention dabble into the human smuggling and slave trades? I agree that the war on drugs is silly at best, but these crips, bloods, and certainly the MS-13s are NOT your laid back Starbuckster that hits off a bong with Sublime playing in the background. These are dangerous, dangerous men who exhibit savagery that simply doesnt belong in developed societies.

I say:
I guess you just don't see the issue with who is doing the work here, and how?

It is the department of HOMELAND security.

The border is gaping holes, and bleeding illegals, and these boneheads are doing the job of a police unit? NO Bugs, I don't buy it, I don't support it, and my tax dollars shouldn't be paying for it to be done by them.

[ericsp23]

I'll be interested to see how many actual convictions come from this "round up."

[Apeman81]

This may indeed be an instance of the right war, wrong troops. The evil that exists in the form of street gangs is such that it should, at all times and with all legal means, be attacked and harried until such time as they have been destroyed.

The federal link in tenuous at best, especially given their reluctance to act in the past. But the illegal alien status of many adherents of these criminals does indeed open the door.

As for convictions, I am less concerned with be able to reach convictions than I am with the disruption of the operations of these gangs. They are actively engaged in a destructive, and for them lucrative, illegal enterprise that continues to ruin the lives of too many of our fellow citizens.

The concept of defense of the nation against enemies, foreign and domestic, should not be alien. It should be embraced.

As always, a wary eye for corruption and abuse is advised

[Osborn F Enready]

Yes, by no means think I am pro gang, or encouraging that mentality.

I am simply pointing out this is NO business of the Department of Homeland Security.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Yes, by no means think I am pro gang, or encouraging that mentality. I am simply pointing out this is NO business of the Department of Homeland Security.

Then whose business is it? Surely you cant expct local police to deal with a threat that is common to several states, and at least in the case of MS-13, internationally sourced. The logistics to coordinate such an effort are emmense, and at this time, Home Sec is the only entity that has the resources.

Such an effort requires total cooperation and coordination of local, county, and state police agencies of several varieties (Corrections, Border Patrol, Police, Sherrif, Highway Patrol, Immigration...not to mention the drug and firearms agencies, whether you agree they should exist or not) not to mention federal agents with the authority to prosecute these people for thier various federal crimes invovling multiple states and people of varied nationalities, citizenships and alien status.

If you can name someone other than Home Sec or the Pentagon that has the resources to do that, you get a cookie.

[Clarence]

Quote by: Apeman81 This may indeed be an instance of the right war, wrong troops.

If it was, what should happen?

[Osborn F Enready]

Bugs, you don't seem to understand the scope of the system, or the rules it has to comply to.

Do you realize that 55 agencies in the U.S. government have military trained, SWAT style agencies? One of those is the friggin FDA!

Have you taken a look at your large city neighbors SWAT force? These are military tactics, military arms, military "mentality" being applied to citizens, usually based on "anonymous tips".

I have already seen how "adept" homeland security is at handling facts and emergencies, and I highly doubt much will result from this since it is probably the Federal Drug Dealers taking out competititon of the locals.

Maybe you forgot that the CIA and FBI and some of the more corrupt police organizations are involved in drug trafficking? Maybe you forgot what happened to Columbia after we KILLED Pablo Escobar? Maybe people forgot what Oliver North did before he was a Fox news contributor? Maybe people forget about the Vietnam drug connection?

Some of us haven't forgotten, and are still trying to connect those dots that are yet unconnected.



I am all for getting rid of crime Bugs, but not at the cost of innocent peoples rights, illegal wiretapping, assumed guilt until proven innocent, or any of the other tactics our system is using to further its own illegal, untraceable funds.

[Clarence]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I am all for getting rid of crime Bugs, but not at the cost of innocent peoples rights, illegal wiretapping, assumed guilt until proven innocent, or any of the other tactics our system is using to further its own illegal, untraceable funds.

second that

[bugsbunny04]

Okay, I do think it is a little silly that the FDA has a SWAT team, you got me there.

[Rave7pt0]

Aside from all Osborn et al's concerns, what about the source of this "gang scourge"? These kids didn't just wake up one morning in a safe, warm bed and decide that instead of going to school in preparation for college they'd go deal drug instead. This is a system-wide failure -- education, social services, even the media.

The fact that our culture thinks the best way to address systematic problems is to "round up" the products of that system and put them through more of it is a testament to the weak state of our world. It has to crumble sometime soon.

[Clarence]

Quote by: Rave7pt0 Aside from all Osborn et al's concerns, what about the source of this "gang scourge"? These kids didn't just wake up one morning in a safe, warm bed and decide that instead of going to school in preparation for college they'd go deal drug instead. This is a system-wide failure -- education, social services, even the media. The fact that our culture thinks the best way to address systematic problems is to "round up" the products of that system and put them through more of it is a testament to the weak state of our world.

agreed

It has to crumble sometime soon.

has to?

[Osborn F Enready]

Rave said: Aside from all Osborn et al's concerns, what about the source of this "gang scourge"? These kids didn't just wake up one morning in a safe, warm bed and decide that instead of going to school in preparation for college they'd go deal drug instead. This is a system-wide failure -- education, social services, even the media

I say:
I have been saying that since day one Rave. The only thing is you think it is failure by accident, while I allude to failure by design, and provide links to the money trail of proof. Most of these people have hung themself with their own words at one time or another, and people have chronicled these statements as well as their long lines of historical money connections and political ties.

The U.S. government no longer represents the intrests of the U.S. populace, it has become a seperate entity dependent on the funds it FORCES you to pay, with the open threat of force.
When the mob did it, it was illegal. When drug cartels do it, it is illegal. Why isn't it illegal when the U.S. government does it, even though it breaks their OWN laws, oaths of service, and pledges to execute their job in full faith to the people?

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: Rave7pt0 Aside from all Osborn et al's concerns, what about the source of this "gang scourge"? These kids didn't just wake up one morning in a safe, warm bed and decide that instead of going to school in preparation for college they'd go deal drug instead. This is a system-wide failure -- education, social services, even the media. The fact that our culture thinks the best way to address systematic problems is to "round up" the products of that system and put them through more of it is a testament to the weak state of our world. It has to crumble sometime soon.

Obviously you are refering to the epidemic of poverty. Do you realize that in all of human history the problem of human poverty hasnt ben solved. first you have to eliminate human selfishness. No system, no matter how free or totalitarian, can change the core of human nature.

Seriously if these kids want to get out of the hood, get a job that will kep them fed, housed, and relatively well paid compared to any Joe Schmoe working at a convenience store, they should join the military. Worried about getting killed or brain washed? Join the Chair Force. They dont brain wash you and actually have a high safety rating among leading employers. Looking for adventure? Join the Army. Like being on boats? Join the Navy. Wanna have your hard drive formatted and a new super duper KILLKILLKILL Mk. Few Mod. Proud operating system uploaded onto your shit? Join the Marines. Oh by the way, they will get thier college education paid for, and get training for a job in civilian life that will most certainly give them the ability to never return to "da hood" again.

[Osborn F Enready]

Bugs said: Obviously you are refering to the epidemic of poverty. Do you realize that in all of human history the problem of human poverty hasnt ben solved. first you have to eliminate human selfishness. No system, no matter how free or totalitarian, can change the core of human nature. Seriously if these kids want to get out of the hood, get a job that will kep them fed, housed, and relatively well paid compared to any Joe Schmoe working at a convenience store, they should join the military.

I say:
Oh come on Bugs! I thought that way when I joined up too bud, it ain't the answer for MANY let alone everyone. Why would a person struggling due to the system needing reform join the system, to get underpaid by them, and lose all rights in the process? You would have a different opinion if it was you going to the brig for 20 years because your commander TOLD you to abuse prisoners, and you did what you were told. Our military is putting people in situations that are unbecoming of the United States, let alone unbecoming of an officer or servicemember. These soldiers are being forced into the mental dilemma to serve President, or Constitution, and right now if I was in the service, I would probably be doing brig time for shooting one of those lifer academy graduates who tried ordering me to carry out the COLLECTION OF CIVILLIAN IRAQI ARMS.

No thanks, I don't serve growing tyranny, or police states. I also don't knowingly incite civil wars in foreign nations.

Something tells me this guy, who already served, and is still serving against his will, would have a little different advice.
Kevin Benderman. Have you heard if him?

Bugs said: Worried about getting killed or brain washed? Join the Chair Force. They dont brain wash you and actually have a high safety rating among leading employers. Looking for adventure? Join the Army. Like being on boats? Join the Navy. Wanna have your hard drive formatted and a new super duper KILLKILLKILL Mk. Few Mod. Proud operating system uploaded onto your shit? Join the Marines. Oh by the way, they will get thier college education paid for, and get training for a job in civilian life that will most certainly give them the ability to never return to "da hood" again.

I say:
It ain't a vacation to the Bahamas bugs, you are putting your life on the line as much as that enemy soldier you are rooting out. Its hard to say "it's all fun and games until someone loses a life"..... when your dead and bleeding. The irony sets in about then.


You have to deal with the reality that when you are in poverty, your levels of respect are sometimes directly tied to the amount of food in your gut. The demand that is outlawed by the government, and filled by the black market provides a quick, immediate dump of large sums of money. If you think crime doesn't pay, you haven't checked the stats. Crime is wrong, no doubt, but so are the criminals who outlaw things like this and create the underground market which has unlimited profit potential, and national ties and supply connections.

The only way to fix the issue of keeping the poor out of the black market, is to remove the black market, and make jobs available for the poor who want to work and earn a living.