Feds target gangs in crackdown

[Apeman81]

The poor have been with us always. Poverty does not lead to the kind of mindless brute that make up the ranks of the ultra violent gangs discussed in this thread.

Making excuses for the animalistic behavior goes much farther to encourage it than poverty.

No one thing can be singled out. But many contributors exist. You would be hard pressed to deny that the mainstream acceptance of the filth and decadence being advanced as music does nothing to hearten the thuggish behavior of these louts. Foul language, objectification of women as sexual release mechanism, the encouragement to violent confrontation, and the decline in value of human life contained the lyrics of this tripe only contribute to a general devolution.

The silver screen has its own rather dark lining. Hollywood adds light and vivid imagery to the vileness of everything aforementioned concerning music to create music videos of violent, self absorbed, all about me nature. (naturally not all films, but too many nonetheless)

Men and women indiscriminately coupling, no thought given to the outcome of their act, thinking only of the “me” of the moment. The inconvenience of pregnancy is easily solved by killing the offspring. This “all about me attitude” leads to a general “children as a nuisance” attitude that manifests itself in latch key children. The kids are ignored, left to their own devices to raise themselves, parents who are too busy “discovering” themselves to instill a sense of values (which they themselves are sorely lacking) in their children.

“Who am I to say anything about how another person lives their life” equivocation seeking to create a “non-judgmental” “tolerant” social strata, bereft of the rudder of common norms and standards, an amoral morass of valueless fog has replaced the duty of each and every one of us to contribute to the society as a whole by establishing the standards and norms that lift up rather than drags down.

The list continues. But the list is populated by contributing factors. But the entire weight of blame for the vile acts these gangs engage in is the individual who has taken it upon himself to elevate his needs above the needs of all others. So engrossed in self are these swine that they feel nothing but contempt for anyone else.

They need to be swept from our midst. I am glad this action is underway. You don’t like that the feds are involved? Then empower local authorities. But rid us of this blight.

[Clarence]

This ICE or Operation Community Sheild is not limited to gangs as stated by Michael Chertoff (he said so). This operation has no stated target. Just voilent gang members, currently.

Though the operation no longer discriminates among gangs, the Los Angeles, California-based MS-13 remains a priority.

The HMS is an anti-terrorist branch of gov't. This branch not only discourages oversite, it doesn't allow it. Can't compromise the mission, see. HMS has a staggering budget with relatively little visible fruit. According to the Patriot Act's rules, anything that can be defined as "terrorism" falls under the HMS jurisdiction. Because of legislation provided, anyone who can be accused of terrorism can be arrested without the rights given to U.S citizens. You know, warrants and a speedy trial and all that nonsense. Even if they are a U.S citizen, as long as they can be connected to terrorism. Use your imagination.

These round-ups are a perfect example. I don't want anyone to think I'm pro-gang, cause that's not what I'm talking about. Remember that this OCS hasn't been made strictly to combat central american gangs. In fact, I can't find a stated purpose anywhere. Still looking, help me out if you can. 375 people were arrested in a nationwide round-up. Only 72 were given charges. That's an awfully low yeild. None of them have gone to court yet. The judge issuing the warrants sucks, dude. If there is any judicial review at all, which I doubt. THis is not the rights we had before.

HMS has admitted arresting 2000+ people since the beginning of the operation. What of them. The court systems must be flooded somewhere. Wouldn't we hear something about it?

I'm no criminal. No criminal record. Only stole once, to know how it feels (hated myself). I've almost went to jail once for beating up my brother in law, but didn't (hated myself). I've nothing to hide. If I was the type to stand by, I would be a model conservasheep. I make money, pay taxes honestly, without complaint. I don't hurt nobody. In fact, I feel obligated to try and leave the world at least the way I found it. I worry about my grandchildren's lives and I want it the way it is now, at worst. I am a product of my environment. A modern day son of liberty, I like to imagine. At some point people like me will be considered a threat (cause fear=terrorism) to the powers that be. At that point, all systems are go for yours and my arrest.

I believe this is the sign I've been waiting for. All the power that has been centralized and legalized is not even being used, but this is the first hint. I've hopes for 2006 elections. But with Gestapo-like roundups all legal... How could they lose? Unless people get wise and speak out and cause enough waves for public sentiment to be overwhelmingly against...this movement(?). Campaigns haven't even started, and when they do, everyone will be tied to one scandal or another however loosely. Choosing the right person for the jobs is gonna be a bigger crap-shoot than ever. We're running out of time. Think fast, patriots.



Clancy

[Osborn F Enready]

Ape said: The poor have been with us always. Poverty does not lead to the kind of mindless brute that make up the ranks of the ultra violent gangs discussed in this thread.

I say:
I agree. There is a cause, but it is not that.

Ape said: Making excuses for the animalistic behavior goes much farther to encourage it than poverty. No one thing can be singled out. But many contributors exist. You would be hard pressed to deny that the mainstream acceptance of the filth and decadence being advanced as music does nothing to hearten the thuggish behavior of these louts. Foul language, objectification of women as sexual release mechanism, the encouragement to violent confrontation, and the decline in value of human life contained the lyrics of this tripe only contribute to a general devolution.

I say:
But why did it come about Ape? Why did the music evolve, or devolve to this level?

I think the answer is clearly directly linked to the level of individual oppression, by society. Not just by law, but by social norms, tolerance, acceptance, and forced political correctness to "stay within the bounds of acceptability" to society. As society progresses through time, and industry and technology evolve, it is only natural that our world becomes more complex. It is the direction of the complexity though, that we must seek to keep on course. We have learned that as freedom increases, diversity and education increase. The bigger role famillies play in life, the more important the family is.

We see more outrageous music, and more offensive lyrics now, for the same reason we saw shorter hemlines on skirts, and more counter-culture expressed through drug use and "shock" behaviours that are societally "shunned" mainly due to misunderstanding and fear.

The more direct control that is applied to the individuals by society, the more the individual will strive to distance themself from that control for identity of self for self differentiation from the "herd".

As laws intrude more and more into larger and more private areas of our life, we as humans naturally seek to withdraw, and retain our "perception" of self, or our established norm. The more oppressive society becomes in laws and "acceptance", the more reclusive the average person becomes, and the more quick to arms when further limits are encroached.

WE, are animals to some degree, as we may love our fellow man as a whole but there are many who partake in the makeup we may despise, if we let it, to a level of hatred. We feel naturally threatened. We as humans have a real, instinctual, natural fear of others that "are not like us" to a "level" that is different to each and every individual.

Ape said: The silver screen has its own rather dark lining. Hollywood adds light and vivid imagery to the vileness of everything aforementioned concerning music to create music videos of violent, self absorbed, all about me nature. (naturally not all films, but too many nonetheless)

I say:
Who are you to judge what is right or wrong when viewed by different individuals, with different experiences, reactions and cultural upbringing? Are you saying because you see it as wrong, all people should have to respect your "view" of wrong and LIVE by it?

Ape said: Men and women indiscriminately coupling, no thought given to the outcome of their act, thinking only of the “me” of the moment.

I say:
Obviously the many that use birth control, at their own expense and health risks, prove your wrong about the MAJORITY not giving "thought" to the act. The levels at which they have fought for the rights of abortion, shows the necessity and concern for safety and sterility of the process.

Ape said: The inconvenience of pregnancy is easily solved by killing the offspring. This “all about me attitude” leads to a general “children as a nuisance” attitude that manifests itself in latch key children. The kids are ignored, left to their own devices to raise themselves, parents who are too busy “discovering” themselves to instill a sense of values (which they themselves are sorely lacking) in their children.

I say:
Lets look at the real reasons they are being "left to raise themselves"? How about the fact that most famillies need two people working to survive without social aid? How about the inflation of the dollar under our wonderful new banking system? How about the reasons, other than simple conjecture and opinion?

Ape said: “Who am I to say anything about how another person lives their life” equivocation seeking to create a “non-judgmental” “tolerant” social strata, bereft of the rudder of common norms and standards, an amoral morass of valueless fog has replaced the duty of each and every one of us to contribute to the society as a whole by establishing the standards and norms that lift up rather than drags down.

I say:
You forgot to say at the end of that diatribe, that that was all in "your opinion".

Ape said: The list continues. But the list is populated by contributing factors. But the entire weight of blame for the vile acts these gangs engage in is the individual who has taken it upon himself to elevate his needs above the needs of all others. So engrossed in self are these swine that they feel nothing but contempt for anyone else.

I say:
Yes, they couldn't be learning it by example from all they see around them from Washington lying politicians all the way to their earliest years of socially perverted church leaders who molest little boys or their "agenda" driven teachers who teach how to conform instead of how to tolerate and question, investigate and self-skepticise, to debate and to learn.

Ape said: They need to be swept from our midst. I am glad this action is underway. You don’t like that the feds are involved? Then empower local authorities. But rid us of this blight.

I say:
Typical nanny statist. Ignore the means, to achieve an end.

When are you building gas chambers, and genociding all those "not like you"?????

Perhaps you should open your mind and really try to understand all the things at play, the reasons why they are, and who is pulling the strings.

[Clarence]

Quote by: Apeman81 The silver screen has its own rather dark lining. Hollywood adds light and vivid imagery to the vileness of everything aforementioned. (naturally not all films, but too many nonetheless)

A critic of Passions of the Christ, I assume. You're right about our youth being sesensitized to violence and sex and greed and war and torture and divorce and other things. We got us in a pickle. Babe Ruth!

You want to somebody to fix these problems with your tax dollars. from affar. and efficiently too, dammit! We could make these places where we send all the people who can't agree wholeheartedly with the plan. We could say something like "you're with us or again' us!" and round up the dissenters. with a quickness.

[Osborn F Enready]

Clarence said: The HMS is an anti-terrorist branch of gov't. This branch not only discourages oversite, it doesn't allow it. Can't compromise the mission, see. HMS has a staggering budget with relatively little visible fruit. According to the Patriot Act's rules, anything that can be defined as "terrorism" falls under the HMS jurisdiction. Because of legislation provided, anyone who can be accused of terrorism can be arrested without the rights given to U.S citizens. You know, warrants and a speedy trial and all that nonsense. Even if they are a U.S citizen, as long as they can be connected to terrorism. Use your imagination. These round-ups are a perfect example. I don't want anyone to think I'm pro-gang, cause that's not what I'm talking about. Remember that this OCS hasn't been made strictly to combat central american gangs. In fact, I can't find a stated purpose anywhere. Still looking, help me out if you can. 375 people were arrested in a nationwide round-up. Only 72 were given charges. That's an awfully low yeild. None of them have gone to court yet. The judge issuing the warrants sucks, dude. If there is any judicial review at all, which I doubt. THis is not the rights we had before. HMS has admitted arresting 2000+ people since the beginning of the operation. What of them. The court systems must be flooded somewhere. Wouldn't we hear something about it? I'm no criminal. No criminal record. Only stole once, to know how it feels (hated myself). I've almost went to jail once for beating up my brother in law, but didn't (hated myself). I've nothing to hide. If I was the type to stand by, I would be a model conservasheep. I make money, pay taxes honestly, without complaint. I don't hurt nobody. In fact, I feel obligated to try and leave the world at least the way I found it. I worry about my grandchildren's lives and I want it the way it is now, at worst. I am a product of my environment. A modern day son of liberty, I like to imagine. At some point people like me will be considered a threat (cause fear=terrorism) to the powers that be. At that point, all systems are go for yours and my arrest. I believe this is the sign I've been waiting for. All the power that has been centralized and legalized is not even being used, but this is the first hint. I've hopes for 2006 elections. But with Gestapo-like roundups all legal... How could they lose? Unless people get wise and speak out and cause enough waves for public sentiment to be overwhelmingly against...this movement(?). Campaigns haven't even started, and when they do, everyone will be tied to one scandal or another however loosely. Choosing the right person for the jobs is gonna be a bigger crap-shoot than ever. We're running out of time. Think fast, patriots.

I say:
I agree!

The whole problem is who is doing it, how they are doing it, with no INDEPENDENT oversight on top of it all.

[shield772]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Its the end of the world as we know it...... I know I am ready, but I don't think many others really are. This is the first roundup of the American SS. I would like to quote myself now..... The only thing that is still protecting Americans, is the length of the line of other people in front of them to be tortured, imprisoned and forced into National or State servitude under the guise of "rehabillitation" in the "prison system". Look at the number of non-violent, active, normal citizens imprisoned for POSSESION of marijuana, growing marijuana, or consuming marijuana, and you see the first wave of citizen soldiers in the rebellion already behind bars. They spoke out with their actions against the system, and the people closed their ears because "it didn't affect them" or "they didn't support it" even though it was within those peoples rights to consume marijuana, grow and possess. The people failed them, and are continuing to fail them, for now. This nation is full of sheeple anymore, and they are being led to slaughter by lemmings in their own right. How bad is it when lemming"ism" starts to spread like a virus? Your rights reside in your will to protect, defend and exercise them. The people no longer exist, nor does a beneficial government, at least in this nation or the world from my perspective as a Constitutional American. This roundup mentality will continue until it is met with massive armed resistance, and it will eventually, as the reasons for round-up change from market to market of unwilling victims supported by the ignorance and silence of all the witnesses.

come on, these are gangs, their terrorists, this is long long long overdue

[Osborn F Enready]

Yea, ignore citizens rights, the Constitution, its all just in the way of achieving order.

[bugsbunny04]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready It ain't a vacation to the Bahamas bugs, you are putting your life on the line as much as that enemy soldier you are rooting out. Its hard to say "it's all fun and games until someone loses a life"..... when your dead and bleeding. The irony sets in about then.

No, its not a vacation to the bahamas, and no, it isnt for everyone. And yes, it is very, very dangerous if you have certain MOSs. Not everybody has to be an 11B. There are MOSs that are far safer that dont even really involve carrying a weapon. And in the Air Force, for example, there are actually very few jobs that are any more dangerous than the civilian equivilant. Everybody just assumes because part of the military is dangerous work, that its all dangerous. If you are in a combat arms branch, fuck yeah its dangerous. If you are in service and support branch (Transpo, Quartermaster), it is much less so, and people in ADMIN jobs scarcely have to do anything more stressful than Office Space type shit.

[Osborn F Enready]

Bugs said: No, its not a vacation to the bahamas, and no, it isnt for everyone. And yes, it is very, very dangerous if you have certain MOSs. Not everybody has to be an 11B. There are MOSs that are far safer that dont even really involve carrying a weapon. And in the Air Force, for example, there are actually very few jobs that are any more dangerous than the civilian equivilant. Everybody just assumes because part of the military is dangerous work, that its all dangerous. If you are in a combat arms branch, fuck yeah its dangerous. If you are in service and support branch (Transpo, Quartermaster), it is much less so, and people in ADMIN jobs scarcely have to do anything more stressful than Office Space type shit.

I say:
First of all Bugs, you are talking to one of those ex-Admin type job workers. I was a Radioman aboard the U.S.S. Saginaw LST-1188. The Radioman field in the Navy is mostly admin type jobs, with few exceptions. You are missing the critical point though.

Once you sign the line, you have no more rights until your LEGAL CONTRACT EXPIRES other than what the UCMJ proscribes.

If you are an admin puke, such as I, you will understand quite quickly that doesn't mean shit. If and when the merde' hits the ventillateur, all soldiers will be expected to know how, and to dilligently employ arms or whatever means necessary to prevent undue aggression.

I ask you to refer back to a bit of Hollywood, in the movie Private Ryan. Tom Hanks character needs a radioman, and the nearest man underneathe him in the shit trough is who gets selected out, and is told to arm up. He has little experience other than what basic training taught him, but in the eyes of a military in need, that is more than enough to fill a billet on a battle line behind a rifle.

Admin jobs only stay admin jobs until the lines are rushed, or there are no more "combat troops" left.

The current administrations Stop-Loss actions show the difficulty in keeping a voluntary force when fighting an unjust, or non-supported war. This is a clear sign of why we aren't supposed to get into unjust, and non-supported wars.

I disagree Bugs.

The only good reason to join the military under this administration with the nation in this turmoil, is to do so out of strict self-fulfillment to either the administrations cause, or because there is no other place for you, that you would feel "right" for the job.

Some people need structure, but need to be forced into it. For them, the military is good.

Some people need adrenaline, for them, it can be right for some. (SEALS, RANGERS, FORCE RECON, DELTA FORCE, COAST GUARD SEARCH AND RESCUE.) but most of the military is hurry up and wait in another line that produces nothin more than ankle sores and excessive sweat under the blessed sun.

Some people MISTAKENLY think of the service as a JOB, and that is one thing it DEFINITELY is not. The military is a lifestyle, whether for 2 years or 20. You breathe it, you drink it, you eat it, you march it, you live it. There is no time, and no space for individuals in a team, and you will be told such until your first reflex is to say AYE SIR without registering it. You will become A.J. Squared away or your sorry ass will GO away, by hook, crook or chinook. The military has no time for pansy ass long hairs, peace junky druggies, or young misguided souls searching for themselves. Their job is defense, and when you join you are part of the team, or you leave.

For the hardcore individualist, the military will either make you or break you, depending on your superiors and your drive. Some leaders recognize and promote thinkers and doers. Others promote those who don't make waves for them. Its stovepipe authority system is probably the most ideal icon of inefficiency with a widely varying concept of justice in their courts, and practiced by their lawyers.

The military is what you make it, but for some it can be the biggest mistake they could possibly conceive. Ultimately, look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are ready willing and able to kill, without question, upon order. In this system as it is today, it is appearing that is one of the only base requirements.

Remember that no matter how bad, or how degrading any civillian job is, you can ALWAYS walk away. In the military, you are taught to ask for more and turning away is not an option.

[shield772]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready Yea, ignore citizens rights, the Constitution, its all just in the way of achieving order.

They are first of all mostly not citizens, and they are all criminals, and they are terrorists plain and simple.

[Osborn F Enready]

Shield said: They are first of all mostly not citizens, and they are all criminals, and they are terrorists plain and simple.

I say:
That still is no reason to step outside the normal methods of law enforcement and start selectively violating and ignoring citizen rights.

I am all for busting people who break real laws, and not just petty drug use or possession laws.

I am all for holding people accountable if they violate other peoples rights, our are here illegally.

I am all for busting syndicate crime rings and political/crime ties or criminal/police ties.

Still, this is no reason to usurp the Constitution and violate the rights of people en masse to try to find a law breaker among the group, no matter what the group.

This is not the business of Homeland Security, and the whole area called Homeland Security shouldn't exist, as it is un-necessary if all other branches of law enforcement and intelligence work together within the limitations emplaced by the Constitution.

The issue of the the judge that signs the warrants is really a way for the government to handpick judges that are kind to the "cause" they are rooting out.

[Lilith]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready I say: I have been saying that since day one Rave. The only thing is you think it is failure by accident, while I allude to failure by design, and provide links to the money trail of proof. Most of these people have hung themself with their own words at one time or another, and people have chronicled these statements as well as their long lines of historical money connections and political ties. The U.S. government no longer represents the intrests of the U.S. populace, it has become a seperate entity dependent on the funds it FORCES you to pay, with the open threat of force. When the mob did it, it was illegal. When drug cartels do it, it is illegal. Why isn't it illegal when the U.S. government does it, even though it breaks their OWN laws, oaths of service, and pledges to execute their job in full faith to the people?

Damn. Damn. Damn. Fucked up.

[Clarence]

Quote by: shield772 They are first of all mostly not citizens, and they are all criminals, and they are terrorists plain and simple.

that all fine and dandy. That's why we have due process. Criminals and terrorists are not a new invention. Neither is corrupt legal systems.