Churches celebrate Darwin`s birthday

[Boetie]

The reason the churches supports Darwin is because his theory is favorable to times arrow. If it were favorable to times cycle I would doubt the churches would support his theory.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Matt W Wrong. There were festivals going on all over the world at that time prior to 25th December becoming Christmas.

but none celebrating what the actual holiday is truly now.

[Matt W]

You really believe Jesus just 'happened' to be born on the 25th December?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Matt W You really believe Jesus just 'happened' to be born on the 25th December?

I don't know WHEN Jesus was born, but it doesn't matter WHEN, it matters THAT He was born. likewise, it doesn't matter WHEN we celebrate Jesus' birth, it matters THAT we celebrate. to me, every day can be Christmas and Easter, even if we don't enjoy the presents and candy every day, I can still enjoy the ultimate gift that Jesus gave me, eternal life.

[RickSp]

Quote by: dthmstr254 but none celebrating what the actual holiday is truly now.

LOL. Virtually all the symbols and celebrations of of Christmas, including the date, were borrowed from pagan religions, so claiming that the holiday was not celebrated as it is today is only partially true and completely misses the point.

OK, let see. The Christmas tree first appeared both in the Roman celebration of Saturnalia and in German pagan ritual. Saturnalia also was a time for the buying and giving of small presents. The Celtic celebration of the Yule log was also appropriated by the Christians as was the decorating of doors and rooms with mistletoe. Even the secular story of Santa is borrowed. "Prior to the Germanic peoples' conversion to Christianity, Germanic folklore contained stories about the god Odin (Wodan), who would each year, at Yule, have a great hunting party accompanied by his fellow gods and the fallen warriors residing in his realm. Children would place their boots, filled with carrots, straw or sugar, near the chimney for Odin's flying horse, Sleipnir, to eat. Odin would then reward those children for their kindness by replacing Sleipnir's food with gifts or candy."

So with the possible exception of going to church to worship your particular god, most of the other Christmas traditions were borrowed or stolen. Even Jesus looks an awful lot like Mithras, a god who predates Jesus by several centuries and was also born on December 25th.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp LOL. Virtually all the symbols and celebrations of of Christmas, including the date, were borrowed from pagan religions, so claiming that the holiday was not celebrated as it is today is only partially true and completely misses the point.

ok, let me put it this way, the way it is celebrated in my church, which is very similar to every other Baptist church from Jacksonville all the way up to DC, it is very UNsimilar to the pagan celebrations. in fact, the popular version of Christmas is the version that borrowed from pagan religions, if you want the bare and honest truth. it was not Christians who incorporated the Yule Log into Christmas, or Father Christmas, or any of these other traditions. matter of fact, most Protestant churches do not include these traditions in their Christmas events, and neither do most of the Catholics I have known (I am best friends with a now Baptist Christian that was, in her words, the "uber-Catholic").

OK, let see. The Christmas tree first appeared both in the Roman celebration of Saturnalia and in German pagan ritual. Saturnalia also was a time for the buying and giving of small presents. The Celtic celebration of the Yule log was also appropriated by the Christians as was the decorating of doors and rooms with mistletoe. Even the secular story of Santa is borrowed. "Prior to the Germanic peoples' conversion to Christianity, Germanic folklore contained stories about the god Odin (Wodan), who would each year, at Yule, have a great hunting party accompanied by his fellow gods and the fallen warriors residing in his realm. Children would place their boots, filled with carrots, straw or sugar, near the chimney for Odin's flying horse, Sleipnir, to eat. Odin would then reward those children for their kindness by replacing Sleipnir's food with gifts or candy."

sorry, if you would ask my pastor what Christmas was about, you would get the story that it is not about fat people coming down chimneys, Christmas trees, huge logs (although they are fun to light on fire and throw fireworks at, just ask my youth pastor, who was brave enough to throw a box of fireworks at a bonfire {while the rest of us dove for cover:eek:}) or hunting parties and gifts. he gives gifts to commemmorate Jesus, a practice borrowed not from the story of Santa, but the story from which the real Santa (now dead) got his inspiration from. Saint Nicholas DID exist, but the true story, from two sources in the church and the History Channel, is that he got his idea from the story of the three wise men who gave gifts at Christmas. he asked himself the question "how do I give Jesus my gifts?" and his answer was to bestow them on the ones who truly needed it, from the part of the New Testament that says that what you do to the poor, needy, hungry, etc. you do unto Jesus.

So with the possible exception of going to church to worship your particular god, most of the other Christmas traditions were borrowed or stolen. Even Jesus looks an awful lot like Mithras, a god who predates Jesus by several centuries and was also born on December 25th.

and with the possibility of the date, you are wrong on all counts in some way. as for SC, well, he got his idea from the Bible and thus, originated from the Bible, never venturing truly into pagan traditions.

[RickSp]

Quote by: dthmstr254 and with the possibility of the date, you are wrong on all counts in some way. as for SC, well, he got his idea from the Bible and thus, originated from the Bible, never venturing truly into pagan traditions.

Not surprisingly, you exclude the obvious to fit into your narrow dogma. Deny the solstice if you will. It matters not a wit to me.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp Not surprisingly, you exclude the obvious to fit into your narrow dogma. Deny the solstice if you will. It matters not a wit to me.

I don't deny the date, or did you fail to notice that. secondly, the CHRISTIAN Christmas NEVER INCLUDED THE SOLSTICE! that was the work of Victorian Humanists.

[Rainbow]

The real issue with churches start celebrating and/or observing Darwin's birthday :
- release a pressure and/or surge of criticism on Christians within societies in U.S.

Darwin's theory is completely irrelevant.
It could be Newtons' one.

[RickSp]

Quote by: dthmstr254 I don't deny the date, or did you fail to notice that. secondly, the CHRISTIAN Christmas NEVER INCLUDED THE SOLSTICE! that was the work of Victorian Humanists.

LOL. What buffonnery! Proudly ignoring the obvious. Humans have celebrated the Solstice since the dawn of time. The Christians moved their holiday to the solstice. They chose to plant their "birth of the son" holiday on the same date as the Romans' "rebirth of the sun" holiday.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp LOL. What buffonnery! Proudly ignoring the obvious. Humans have celebrated the Solstice since the dawn of time. The Christians moved their holiday to the solstice. They chose to plant their "birth of the son" holiday on the same date as the Romans' "rebirth of the sun" holiday.

aren't you noticing that I am saying it was "not about the solstice." they wanted to have a date in which they could celebrate Jesus's birth, which, by the census records, was around the time of the Feast of Dedication (also known as Hannukah), which placed the logical date of celebration to be near the celebration of Hannukah. Hannukah was not derived from any pagan holiday, and the closeness of the Roman census to the feast placed them logically there. Hannukah derived actually from the celebration of the Jews' hard-earned freedom from Antiochus Epiphanes.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Rainbow Darwin's theory is completely irrelevant. It could be Newtons' one.

eh? you might want to elaborate.

[icurhuman2]

Quote by: Rainbow Off Topic Ability to read the text, does not grant and/or promote the understanding one, by its default. If there are dumb people that have problems with understanding a submitted text, it is none of my business to lecture them on that. I understand you present an extra-oridinary knowledge on subjects you attempt to present. Have you ever considered Yale (for example) ?

Extraordinary? Consider Yale? This “extraordinary knowledge” is not extraordinary at all! It’s common knowledge, unless you live in a knowledge vacuum, which probably best describes America. I suppose you consider Yale to be some kind of pinnacle of education. I doubt it. However, I do have some online friends who are Yale graduates, and they’re not necessarily “stupid”.
America has the worst education in the western world! And the dumb text in a book of mythology doesn’t add up to Jack, my friend; try reading something else. Start with any science journal, “Astronomy” “Nature”, or, here’s a local one for you “Scientific American”, I even read that one – one of the few American products I still buy (I run one of the multitude of American-product boycotts - because of the Judeo-Christian warmongering of that particular terrorist country. No money to spend on war – no war.).

[RickSp]

Quote by: dthmstr254 aren't you noticing that I am saying it was "not about the solstice." they wanted to have a date in which they could celebrate Jesus's birth, which, by the census records, was around the time of the Feast of Dedication (also known as Hannukah), which placed the logical date of celebration to be near the celebration of Hannukah. Hannukah was not derived from any pagan holiday, and the closeness of the Roman census to the feast placed them logically there. Hannukah derived actually from the celebration of the Jews' hard-earned freedom from Antiochus Epiphanes.

Revisonist crap, but if you like it, so be it. And there were no "census records" that you refer to, except in your own mythology.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: icurhuman2 Extraordinary? Consider Yale? This “extraordinary knowledge” is not extraordinary at all! It’s common knowledge, unless you live in a knowledge vacuum, which probably best describes America. I suppose you consider Yale to be some kind of pinnacle of education. I doubt it. However, I do have some online friends who are Yale graduates, and they’re not necessarily “stupid”. America has the worst education in the western world! And the dumb text in a book of mythology doesn’t add up to Jack, my friend; try reading something else. Start with any science journal, “Astronomy” “Nature”, or, here’s a local one for you “Scientific American”, I even read that one – one of the few American products I still buy (I run one of the multitude of American-product boycotts - because of the Judeo-Christian warmongering of that particular terrorist country. No money to spend on war – no war.).

Off Topic
I am not a doctor.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: dthmstr254 eh? you might want to elaborate.

What subject ?

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: RickSp Revisonist crap, but if you like it, so be it. And there were no "census records" that you refer to, except in your own mythology.

oh, and don't forget the original documents [of the census], which, if you would like to explore on your next trip to Rome, can be found in Vatican City's museum.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Rainbow What subject ?

what does Newton's theory have to do with anything in this topic. you said it, what relevance does it have?

[Rainbow]

Quote by: dthmstr254 what does Newton's theory have to do with anything in this topic. you said it, what relevance does it have?

The real issue with churches start celebrating and/or observing Darwin's birthday :
- release a pressure and/or surge of criticism on Christians within societies in U.S.

Darwin's theory is completely irrelevant.
It could be Newtons' one
Ect.
It could be you.
It could be me.
It could be anybody.
Ect.

[dthmstr254]

Quote by: Rainbow The real issue with churches start celebrating and/or observing Darwin's birthday : - release a pressure and/or surge of criticism on Christians within societies in U.S.

ok, and that would probably be true. the public would probably start pressuring the rest of the churches to celebrate it.